non-vaxxed child gets VPD - parent goes to media about "regretting decision not to vax" - does... - Page 3

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

I'm not saying anything of the sort, especially since this is a vax support forum.  As someone who works in publishing (not journalism) the idea of freedom of speech and censorship is near and dear to my heart, perhaps as much as the anti-vax agenda vaccine choice is to others.  Freedom of speech is not being infringed and no one is being censored when a media outlet chooses not to cover what someone wishes they would.

Fixed it for you.  

I suppose the bottom line is they are a private enterprise and they can print whatever they want, as long as they do not break laws.

There is, however, a tendency among pro-vaxxers to want to control the message that publishers publish.  They claim that non-vaxxing is wrong and should not be given equal weight in the media.  This is a blurb from science-based medicinehttp://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-fallacy-of-balance-and-fairness-about-unscientific-health-claims-in-the-media-a-case-study/  (skip if you are not in the mood for a skeptic site)

"But the thing that most prevents the scientifically accurate evaluation by the media of unscientific health claims has to be the “tell both sides” culture of “balance” demanded by journalists. Telling both sides is, of course, very important when one side is not obviously correct compared to the other. Examples of such a situation include virtually any political controversy, where there almost always are two (and usually more) sides to an issue. In contrast, in science and medicine, there are not always two sides to an issue. (Again, think of creationism versus evolution.) In science and medicine, there is often a side supported so overwhelmingly by evidence, experimentation, and observation that the “other side” does not warrant being told, as it has already been considered and rejected by science."

This is a sentiment I have seen echoed elsewhere in the pro-vax world.

So, yeah, a private enterprise should be able to publish what it wants.  A group lobbying them to not include some information because they do not like it or deem it "wrong" is advocating censorship.  It would be an even worse sin if the publisher gave into lobby group demands.

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/22/13 at 8:10am

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by serenbat 
 

it's not NITPICKY as you want to say - you are wrong in thinking this is a support for vaccine section

Already covered, but I'm not discussing vaccines anyhow.  I'm discussing the idea of freedom of speech.  Any person is free to speak about vax court decisions or to publish her own newspaper covering vax court decisions.  If someone else's newspaper does not wish to cover them, that's not a lack of freedom of speech.

I can't say anything I want in this subforum.  Most of you obviously consider that appropriate.  It's not censorship either, since this isn't MY website, it's mothering.com's website.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

And I am not debating vaccination in these posts.

As long as you play nice, I personally do not care if you post here.

You mentioned it once before, and I tried to start a thread here (http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1371951/can-we-define-what-support-forum-means-s-o-from-vaccine-forum)  that got nowhere, on clarifying what is and is not allowed on support forums.  I think it is an issue that needs to be visited. 

[Magali]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

I was an active member of this board including being a vocal non vaccinator. I was a supporter monetarily of MDC and a supporter of people looking for support and information here.

I have to say to be told I'm now no longer welcome to share given that my experience isn't unique and I don't think people are terrible. I was there. I was the same. I think it's valid to point out I wasn't different and now what I hear is hurtful. I get the objection but it sure smacks of you just aren't good enough anymore.

I think sharing your real story is supportive to people looking for information here.  In this thread especially. In a thread titled: non-vaxxed child gets VPD - parent goes to media about "regretting decision not to vax" - does this bother you?... there is discontent when someone explains how it happened to them?  Sigh...of course there is. I like that there is a I'm Not Vaccinating place here, where I can come and talk freely about not vaccinating.  But I'd rather hear how terrible pertussis is from someone who has been through it...(with a newborn OMG :(), than "pertussis is no biggie we eat good food and we can handle it"  from someone who hasn't experienced it.  Lets not kid ourselves.  These diseases can have terrible, terrible outcomes.  I think  triscuitsmom's comments are totally relevant to this topic.  Having a newborn suffer pertussis is likely a lifechanging experience, and one that as a non vaccinating parent, I want to hear about.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

Censorship is an authority preventing a journalist or media outlet from exercising freedom of speech.

A journalist or media outlet choosing to exercise freedom of speech by deciding about what they want to speak is not censorship, even if they don't want to speak about what you want them to.

And I am not debating vaccination in these posts.

There is such a thing as self-censorship to preserve your livelihood. There is also the killing of a story by editors/publishers for "political" reasons, ie it would piss off the advertisers. Could you imagine Redbook or a similar publication running an article of the dangers and ineffectiveness of anti-depressants?

BTW, I was in pharmaceutical PR, both in-house and in agencies. I have placed countless articles and killed or neutralized damaging pieces for the pharma industry. Journalists are very lazy and rarely do any independent research on a story, and are very happy to print the press release with their by-line.

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

There is such a thing as self-censorship to preserve your livelihood.

{snip}

That happens, and I wish it didn't, but it's a very different thing than claiming that the constitutional right to freedom of speech is being infringed upon.  That's a pretty serious accusation.

[Chloebelle]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

I was an active member of this board including being a vocal non vaccinator. I was a supporter monetarily of MDC and a supporter of people looking for support and information here.

I have to say to be told I'm now no longer welcome to share given that my experience isn't unique and I don't think people are terrible. I was there. I was the same. I think it's valid to point out I wasn't different and now what I hear is hurtful. I get the objection but it sure smacks of you just aren't good enough anymore.

I totally support you coming on here and sharing your story and you have my sympathies. Serious illness is a possibility we all have to face whether we vaccinate or not.

It felt as though you were suggesting that people should vaccinate to "protect" others, and also suggesting that by not vaccinating our children, we are making dangerous decisions for our children. Some of the regular posters here may be OK with what you posted, but I found it offensive, especially in the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum. It also seemed to spark a debate, and debating is not what I come here for.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

 

That happens, and I wish it didn't, but it's a very different thing than claiming that the constitutional right to freedom of speech is being infringed upon.  That's a pretty serious accusation.

I am not making accusations. I am stating that I believe the MSM is essentially controlled by government and corporate interests, especially when it comes to subjects like vaccination. Call it what you will, it is not freedom of the press when only the mainstream, acceptable opinion is provided.

#FourthEstate

[jlc91]

I have a friend who had her preemie contract pertussis from a NICU LPN who was fully/up-to-date vaxxed.  She had been coughing but came to work b/c she thought she was protected by the vax.  Fortunately the baby survived, but twice she stopped breathing.  It was awful.  But it hasn't changed my friend's mind about not vaxing.  If anything it probably reinforced it b/c of the crappy efficacy of the pertussis vax.

[Cynthia Mosher]

I think a clarification is in order. All posting to this forum must adhere to the guidelines of the forum, which are:

Quote:

I'm Not Vaccinating - This is a support-only forum for those not or those seriously considering not vaccinating. Here we host discussion of issues that arise when choosing to not vaccinate and sharing of resources and information that are related to the no-vax decision. Members who are vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. 

Members who are vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted, and that including posting about any topic, not just a vaccine topic. If you are vaccinating and coming here to post an argument against something you are not following the guidelines and will be removed from the discussion. 

[Kamiro]

ITA ladies.

I think once parental regret sets in...all bets are off.

"Had I only..."

[Lookingup]

I've seen the "I regret my choice to not vaccinate" type articles.  Personally, if my child came down with a VPD (and we've experienced a couple), I wouldn't regret my choice to not vaccinate and certainly wouldn't publicly offer my views either way.  But I do hold a secret terror of the media broadcasting our vaccination status, and the prejudice that my family -- particularly my children -- would face.  Even when they had chicken pox and the email went through the school, I was terribly anxious.  We live in a small community and it was obvious my children were the cases in the email.  And while I'm sure plenty had opinions, none of them reached me.  Most gave a simple, "hope your kids feel better!" and that was that.

But a serious VPD?  I don't know how the community and local media would react.  Since we used to be vaxers, and have a child with brain damage as a result, I would never again take the risk of vaccination.  But the power of media scares me.  People say insane (and often incorrect) things about those who don't vaccinate.  Their fear could cause severe ramifications for us.  So I get more and more quiet about our decision, despite my certainly in it.
 

[researchaddict]

triscuitsmom
im terribly sorry for what happened to your son but its not your fault i hope this information helps you feel better research on the outbreaks of pertussis, large percentages of people are still getting pertusses in the US and the Netherlands that are immunized already because it has mutated that's what is causing the outbreaks. We always look for something or someone to blame when terrible things happen but we cant always have control, vaccinated or not we are only human.