Accepting H's toddler daughter from an affair - Page 3

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

I do want to add a few details. Ow is pushing for siblings to meet (according to h). She doesn't want her child to be outcast from her half siblings. Weird that I would feel completely opposite....

That really is weird that she's pushing for this, as I'd feel just like you! ! I suppose I am outnumbered in my opinion that they don't have to meet right this minute. And I certainly don't advocate lying to a child about why Daddy has to spend so many hours away, and I suppose that even waiting a few more years would involve having to give some sort of reason. It's definitely better to tell the truth.

So if you decided to let your dh take your children along the next time he takes his other child for an outing, do you think you could trust him to honor your feelings if you didn't want your children going into the other woman's house and spending any time with her? Just taking them all out somewhere and then dropping the other child off and coming back home? Or is Ow also pushing for your dh to take his child for overnights? And is your dh financially in a position where he can do all the overnights in a hotel, or maybe at his parents' home if they live nearby and would like to have a relationship with her?

I could see why the kids might need to at least meet each other and periodically get together. And while I don't think you should give your children up for the entire visitation, maybe you could drop them off with him at the hotel or inlaws' home for a few hours and go meet a friend for lunch or do something else just for you, and then pick your kids back up and go on home. Assuming that he'd be supportive enough to help them through the transition process, and not the sort who would capitalize on them possibly trying to push to stay longer and longer if they were having fun.

If this happened in our economic situation, which is extremely tight, I don't know what I'd do because we'd be overwhelmed by the expense of the child support in the first place, and dh certainly wouldn't be in a position to take his other child out for meals and other costly outings for every visit or spring for hotel rooms a couple of times a month.

As to the poster who likened the situation to someone's dh finding out that he'd previously fathered a child in the past, I just wouldn't have all those loaded emotions to be dealing with, in that case.

OP, here's to hoping and believing you'll find that stream of light that can guide you and your kids through this dark time and into many happy days ahead! Just listen to your heart and trust your own wisdom! You're a great mama!

[mammal_mama]

I've just read crunchy_momm's post and I really like her idea of just giving it six months or so. There's no reason why you need to feel rushed into any decision.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 


WHAT?!?! I can understand encouraging her to get out of an unhealthy situation, but 3 months is barely enough to let the shock wear off, nevermind start to pick up the pieces and figure out how to proceed and begin to heal. She is not being selfish by taking the time she needs to figure out what she really wants. And she is not standing in the way of anything... H can see his kid. He can just make sure that it's NOT at their shared home.

I agree

Originally Posted by Katielady 

This is the kind of aggressive, mean-spirited post that never used to happen (or would quickly be deleted) before mothering changed its moderating policies.

OP, we do wonder how you are doing. Check in if you can! Sending you warmth and strength.

and I agree!  

[chikeemomma]

Currently h sees the child about 3-4 times a week...according to what he tells me....they meet in a parking lot and do the exchange...he then takes child to eat and other places....sometimes to walk around the mall....etc. I don't really know specific details because he says that if I haven't accepted him bringing her inti our home then I am seperate from her....the way I see it....its like he's git two lives.....he does not want me to ask him any questions because I have not accepted her.

Is this insane or what?

Also there is no set visitation or child support in place.

[chikeemomma]

I think it really bothers him that he has to find places to take child for several hours instead of just being able to bring her to our house and hang out....that would be easier.

[greenemami]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama 

I'm so sorry that you are going through this! And it seems very selfish, to me, for your dh to even expect you to deal with this child at all or to have her in your home or in your life. No, it's not the child's fault, and yes, the child has a right to visitation and support from her father. But I don't think it will harm the child to just have a relationship with her own mom, and with her dad when he comes to see her and takes her out, and not to meet her dad's wife or her dad's other children. I do realize it won't be ideal for her not having her own dad in her home and getting that continuous contact with him -- but lots of kids survive that just fine. As someone else has mentioned, kids are pretty quick to accept what is. None of that is you punishing the child -- it's your dh's choice to make a baby "on the side" -- a baby who would always to some extent have to be a "side" relationship for him (if he is to stay with his first family) -- that is punishing or making things less than ideal for her.

I also don't think it will harm your own children not to meet the child whom their dad fathered with another woman. It seems similar to having a parent who had a child at a very young age and placed the child for adoption. Some parents do choose to tell their children about this child they had long ago, and sometimes the half-siblings meet at some point, and life goes on. It's true that they will probably find out at some point, so maybe you'd rather they find out from you, and at that point if they want to meet her, maybe they can go with dh when he makes his next visit. But I think it might be better to wait till they're old enough to understand why Mommy prefers not to meet the child herself or have her in their home. I don't see how it harms them not to know about their dad's affair at this young age.

Yes, it will be upsetting to them at whatever point that they do understand that their dad cheated on their mom. I think your dh's goal is probably to establish the relationship now before they can really understand what a jerk he was, just to make it easier on himself. And he is bonded with this other child and doesn't like having to live two lives. He wants all of his children to know each other, how sweet. It's really too bad that he chose to have two lives when he had that affair! Now he just needs to accept what he has created, and quit trying to force you to bear the brunt of it in order to make things easier for him. You've had to deal with enough already -- now he needs to buckle down and deal with this on his own.

Are you saying you think it is okay to not have the childre meet...ever? I don't think that is fair to the child.  And yes, while telling the kids about the other child/woman now will be easier on the OP's dh, it will also be easier on the kids.  I don't necessarily think the kids need to meet immediately, but I do think they should have some relationship-this is not their fault.  Whether the OP chooses to be a part of that relationship or not is totally her choice (obviously beyond having to interact in a positive manner with her own kids  about the child or perhaps see the child at family events or whatnot, but she wouldn't have to be in contact with the other woman at all at that point.)

And yes, I do think it would be harmful for the "other child" to not meet her dad's wife or other children ever should the OP stay married.  I would think she would grow up feeling like daddy's dirty secret, which is just not fair.  If the OP stays married, I think she will have to accept this child, and to some degree the child's mom.  Again, I don't at all mean right now-that would be such a long process, but I do think it would have to planned for. 

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

Currently h sees the child about 3-4 times a week...according to what he tells me....they meet in a parking lot and do the exchange...he then takes child to eat and other places....sometimes to walk around the mall....etc. I don't really know specific details because he says that if I haven't accepted him bringing her inti our home then I am seperate from her....the way I see it....its like he's git two lives.....he does not want me to ask him any questions because I have not accepted her.

Is this insane or what?

Also there is no set visitation or child support in place.

I'ma go out on a limb here:  He's not "not answering questions because you haven't accepted her."  He's not answering questions because he doesn't want to be held in any way accountable for where he is, who he's with, or what he's doing.  If he refuses you information about his arrangements with his other child, he can tell you he's with her, and her mom that he can't see the baby, and then he can go anywhere he wants.

It is insane.

I wouldn't really expect him to suddenly get forthcoming if you tell him, okay, the kids should know about each other.  Or even if you tell him sure!  Bring the baby over, and I will coo over her and feed her spaghetti-os and then treasure every splotch and tomato stain!  I think your best bet at getting information out of this guy is to hire a lawyer to demand it.

[greenemami]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

Currently h sees the child about 3-4 times a week...according to what he tells me....they meet in a parking lot and do the exchange...he then takes child to eat and other places....sometimes to walk around the mall....etc. I don't really know specific details because he says that if I haven't accepted him bringing her inti our home then I am seperate from her....the way I see it....its like he's git two lives.....he does not want me to ask him any questions because I have not accepted her.

Is this insane or what?

Also there is no set visitation or child support in place.

so....either you say "sure honey, your affair and other child are totally cool with me!" or you don't get to know anything....those are the only choices?  Is he just hoping to wear you down and hope that eventually you sweep this under the rug?  I'm so sorry he is treating you this way when he should be doing whatever he can to make this easier for you. 

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

I think it really bothers him that he has to find places to take child for several hours instead of just being able to bring her to our house and hang out....that would be easier.

Maybe.

I totally think you should tell your kids, and introduce the children.  That doesn't mean opening your house to everyone your H wants to bring into it right this minute.  If it were me, I'd consider making the explanation someplace like a trusted grandparent's house, and letting the kids meet each other there.  That way all the kids are on the same footing, the new kid isn't a visitor on the older kids' home territory, and you're already in a context that reminds them that family isn't just Mom & Dad.

I'd be miffed if my partner was cutting out on me and the kids for a few hours, 3-4 times a week.  If he gets that kind of slack, I want him to take the kids for me so I can go do something - go to S'n'B at the local yarn store, or hit the gym, or even just grocery shop by myself.  I wouldn't care so much who was where while I did that, but if my partner is out, without our kids, not working or doing something else that contributes to our family?  There better be some kind of acknowledgment that I have done him a favor.  (I'm willing to do that favor pretty often - but I do get paid back for it.)

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

Currently h sees the child about 3-4 times a week...according to what he tells me....they meet in a parking lot and do the exchange...he then takes child to eat and other places....sometimes to walk around the mall....etc. I don't really know specific details because he says that if I haven't accepted him bringing her inti our home then I am seperate from her....the way I see it....its like he's git two lives.....he does not want me to ask him any questions because I have not accepted her.

Is this insane or what?

Yikes! Yes that is absolutely insane. Hasn't he kept enough secrets? He doesn't need to report back every detail but if he wants to be part of a relationship with you then he needs to be a little more forthcoming.

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

I think it really bothers him that he has to find places to take child for several hours instead of just being able to bring her to our house and hang out....that would be easier.

Well yeah, easier for him. Not so much for you. Does he understand how hard it will be for you to meet her and spend time with her? And while this is still such a fresh & open wound?

Honestly, your H sounds pretty selfish. Has he worked at all to make things right with you? Is he trying to work on rebuilding your relationship & earning back your trust? It sure doesn't sound like it. You can't do all the work, and especially with this all being his fault, he needs to put some effort into fixing things, and he needs to consider your feelings.

[chikeemomma]

Yes....that's what I think...rug sweeping...he says it happened and there's nothing that can be done about it....the child is here and that's that...

He wont tell me much of anything of their visits....for all I know he's spending time with ow....

Sometimes I wonder what ow would do or say if I said okay bring the child over....would she allow as much visitation.....would she be comfortable with me being the Child when it comes down to it?

My thoughts and emotions are all over the place. In my heart of hearts I so want to forgive him...accept the child....and give my own children the two parent family they deserve.....but on the other hand I don't trust him and he has not said anything I was expecting to hear....any remorse....Amy understandings to my feelings....nothing.

[serenbat]

Quote:

and give my own children the two parent family they deserve

 and the other deserves one?

I personally would have had him out when he told me- I could not forget and would not have it- but that is me, I don't think it shows much good to children to just forgive and go back to a marriage when you only find out years later how miserable the children were and resentful they feel because the parents stayed together.

forgive only goes so far-IMO

this seems a mess for all and in the end (years from now) the way the OP feels may be one way, her children totally another

OP- sorry you have to make this choice but it's your to make and you should not be forced to do what you don't want. Others have to live their own lives, it's OK to say NO and screw you sometimes.

[mamatoabirdie]

Originally Posted by EarthRootsStarSoul 

Sorry, I am aggressive. 

no.  you are thoughtless and lacking compassion.

[Banana731]

I don't know what you should do, OP. I know what I would do. Dh would be out of my house. He would have to show some kind of serious commitment to repairing the damage he's done if he wanted to be in a relationship with ME. And I would want to talk to the other woman, before I made any decisions about when the best time to introduce the siblings is. I would also want to set in motion legal actions for custody and child support for the child from the affair, and I would want to be privy to them as they were established. he would have to start being completely honest with every question I asked about this child.

I don't think your husband is being honest with you either. I can't imagine a reasonable husband making demands about integrating his love child into your family when that wound is so fresh AND you and he haven't really mended your own relationship.

And he Sees the baby 3-4 times a week? Has it been this way since she was born? How much time does he spend with your kids in that one on one way?

[chikeemomma]

He has been pretty cold and matter of fact of the situation. Its unbelievable. He's nit asked me anything about how I'm feeling or anything fir that matter.

When I do ask him anything and I mean anything he gets pretty defensive and stand offish.....like "why do you wanna know? It doesnt pertain to you."

I don't understand how he can be so emotionless towards the whole situation.

I get so anxious when he goes on his visits....not knowing what's going on because I don't feel comfortable or safe to ask...

[chikeemomma]

Banana 731... he did not tell me of the child til she was over a year old. I did not even know she existed at this point. Apparently he had been picking up the child all along and taking her places...unbeknownst to me. I'm not sure what made him tell me....maybe he wad getting tired of hiding...who knows. He won't tell me anything about the birth or what day the child was born....its all Bern approximations and vaguess.

[lilgreen]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

Yes....that's what I think...rug sweeping...he says it happened and there's nothing that can be done about it....the child is here and that's that...

He wont tell me much of anything of their visits....for all I know he's spending time with ow....

Sometimes I wonder what ow would do or say if I said okay bring the child over....would she allow as much visitation.....would she be comfortable with me being the Child when it comes down to it?

My thoughts and emotions are all over the place. In my heart of hearts I so want to forgive him...accept the child....and give my own children the two parent family they deserve.....but on the other hand I don't trust him and he has not said anything I was expecting to hear....any remorse....Amy understandings to my feelings....nothing.

Hi mama. I remember your first post in single parents. I have been thinking of you and this thread popped up.

I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling and uncertain about what to do. Are you still seeing a therapist? I really, really think that is urgently necessary and critical for you. Your therapist needs to help you work through these issues and feelings. 

From an outsider who was married to an abusive man for years, it seems to me that you are not able to let go of 'what should have been' and you are trying to make this new reality somehow fit that 'what should have been' expectation.  

You have been given a lot of great ideas. I think you need to set a time boundary. You have every right to say, 'Not now. In 6 months I will reconsider. I need time.' Then you focus primarily on what to do with H. He has and continues to treat you horribly. Seriously. I have been out of my marriage for about 5 months now and I thought by identifying my marriage as unhealthy, I knew what a healthy marriage looked like. Since separating, I have spent a lot of time talking to friends - both men and women - having very long, deep talks. My sense of a healthy marriage was so skewed - I was unable to even imagine true equality and mutual respect. I'm beginning to grasp it now, but it has been shocking to me to see just how respectful and equal marriages can be and ought to be. I am living a parenting nightmare with my oldest son (now age 11) as a result of him growing up in an unhealthy marriage. He's only 11 and yet the consequences have been played out for years and now they are escalating to the point where I fear I will lose him. I never taught him how to stand strong for what he knows is his right. I instead taught him to be submissive, to respect power imbalances, to know that wife/mother/woman is less than he/husband/man/boy. Your H is not going to change. If he were, he would have shown it already. He has not shown you any remorse.

The other child can have a relationship with your children but it does not mean you have to continue to live however your H dictates. You have a right to protect your emotional wellbeing and you have a responsibility to be a healthy model to your children. If your children are boys, they will grow up identifying with H unless you provide them with a safe and healthy space where you can model respect and unconditional love. If you have girls, they will grown up believing men control us and have more power than women and that they matter less unless you show them what is acceptable for a man to do and what is not and that a woman has every right to control her life and be a strong mama.

This likely sounds preachy, but I just feel so strongly for you. I haven't been where you are but I have tasted a bit of that unclarity, uncertainty, doubt, lack of confidence, etc.in relation to my marriage. I just want you to be able to find happiness and I want your kids to have the safest and most secure future they can. Good luck mama. Take good care of yourself. You are a wonderful person to be weighing all the issues so carefully - it's clear to me that you have a big heart and a beautifully strong moral conscience. Your kids are lucky to have you. xo

[chikeemomma]

Thank you so much lil green. I'm trying to do my best for my own. They are my life.

[The4OfUs]

mammal_mama, I am totally with you.  

I would eventually be OK with my kids knowing their half sibling, but in this particular situation, I would NOT be OK with "every family is different, some daddies have a kid by more than one mom and you have a new sister!" because in this particular situation it's NOT normal.....the OP had NO expectation that there would another child introduced into her family, birthed by another woman.  Yes, it happened.  And yes, she somehow has to come to terms with it.  But it's only been months.  Not even a year.  And yes, shit happens.....but that doesn't mean that shit happens and a person who has been betrayed needs to quickly adapt to a new "normal".  

A single parent, a couple that's not married, a couple that has 2 moms or 2 dads, a couple that has remarried after a divorce, COOL - seriously, I love all the varieties of families that are around in the world when all adult parties in the family are consenting and content.  But when one of the parents strayed from a supposedly monogamous relationship in which the other person rightfully believed there would not be a child from a different person coming in, I just can't chalk that up to "there are lots of different kinds of families" as easily.  I'm not saying I would *never* be able to, but it would take me time.  And a lot of it.  I think expecting a person to overcome not only an affair, but a child of an affair in a matter of months, is beyond cruel.  I mean - yes, the child didn't ask to be born, but OP's not trying to keep the child from her father.  And if the father has to figure out ways to see his daughter instead of bringing him into the OP's home, well then boo hoo for him.  There are plenty of places they can bond and spend time together while the OP figures out how to build up her strength and make a decision.  Frankly I am a little queasy thinking about the OP having to take this high a road about it, this soon. 

This does NOT mean I would ostracize the child, or even the other woman, but I certainly wouldn't be able to just be like, "well, daddy did a bad thing but he's sorry so now here's a new sister!"   Maybe it makes me a shrew, or old fashioned, or both.  I dunno.  I would somehow have to wait until I was able to find a way to make my kids understand, age appropriately, that daddy did something very wrong, that he should NOT have done, that hurt me a lot, and that we were going to have to work through.  That we still will have the little girl in our life because it is not her fault AT ALL, but things are NOT just OK and swept under the rug, as it were.  And I don't know how I'd do that.  It would take me a lot of time to find the right words.  

So long as she's not stopping the father from seeing the child, I don't think right now she owes anything else to anyone...if the kids are 4 and 7, or 5 and 8, or hell even 7 and 10, when they meet their half sibling, they'll still have plenty of time to get to know each other and make memories, and I don't think it's damaging them in any way not knowing for right now.  

Edit:  OP I just read more about how he's treating you, and  - wow - I am SO sorry.  lilgreen is AMAZING, and the other posters have given good advice on that portion of your problems.  I am sending you a forum-hug right now.    

Edited by The4OfUs - 1/23/13 at 7:27pm

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

He has been pretty cold and matter of fact of the situation. Its unbelievable. He's nit asked me anything about how I'm feeling or anything fir that matter.

When I do ask him anything and I mean anything he gets pretty defensive and stand offish.....like "why do you wanna know? It doesnt pertain to you."

I don't understand how he can be so emotionless towards the whole situation.

I get so anxious when he goes on his visits....not knowing what's going on because I don't feel comfortable or safe to ask...

I don't know how else to say this but he sounds manipulative and possibly abusive.

This absolutely pertains to you & you 100% have a right to question it. His attitude cannot be part of a healthy relationship. It sounds like he's just going to keep doing whatever he wants. I also see some red flags that perhaps the relationship with the OW is not over. Obviously I don't know but I'd be really suspicious.

Originally Posted by chikeemomma 

Banana 731... he did not tell me of the child til she was over a year old. I did not even know she existed at this point. Apparently he had been picking up the child all along and taking her places...unbeknownst to me. I'm not sure what made him tell me....maybe he wad getting tired of hiding...who knows. He won't tell me anything about the birth or what day the child was born....its all Bern approximations and vaguess.

So everything was just going along fine for over a year and one day he decided it was too much work to always take his child out somewhere and sneak around, so hey, might as well tell his wife so he can bring her into the house, it's so much more convenient. Wife won't mind, it's none of her business.

Yeah, there is a HUGE issue going on here, and it's not just the act of having an affair.

Can you re-read this... and all your posts... as if your best friend or sister wrote it? What advice would you give to her? I'm worried that you may be missing some major problems with H because it's so hard to look objectively at your own life.

I've known several people whose spouses had affairs (and like I said, one who had a child). And it was easy for none of them, but I don't know that any of their spouses acted the way your H is acting. They were more remorseful, more sensitive to the other person's feelings, put way more effort into working on the relationship... and the relationships that ultimately succeeded took a lot of therapy and a lot of effort... effort that I'm not sure your H is capable of or willing to put in.

I feel very angry for you. And sad. You deserve so much better.