Accepting H's toddler daughter from an affair - Page 5

[nstewart]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama 

nstewart, I agree that it's unfair to paint anyone as a Zezebel unless they're a certain kind of murderer -- one who believes in stopping at nothing to get what she wants. Jezebel's "sin" had nothing to do with adultery. She murdered a man because her husband, the king, wanted the land of a man who refused to sell it to him.

I suppose that I am refering to the revelations use of Jezebel as opposed to referring to the historical queen you are referring to.  I believe this is the more common association in any event, as being a "jezebel" is most often associated with being sexually immoral, not arranging a murder.  Feel free to substitute Jezebel for "harlot", "whore", "slut" or some other ugly word if you like, my message is the same.

My guess is that the OW is a pleaser as the OP appears to be because that is what this adultress DH wants, someone who just wants to please him and not look out for themselves.  This is possibly why she is allowing the DH to treat her as crappily as the OP.  No, I don't know for sure, I'm just making a guess because certain types of men like a certain type of woman ~ it's easier to get away with this type of behaviour if the woman is only thinking of pleasing the man, not thinking critically about a situation, and not sticking up for herself.  A friend of a friend recently went through a mightily crappy situation (and still is in it).  Her DH was having numerous affairs (with call girls, etc) and emptied out their bank account, stole money from his business and clients, and essentially left this women and her two kids in Canada and moved somewhere in South America.  This woman has no idea where her DH is, and is surviving off money her dad is giving her at this point because he DH left her deeply in debt and she doesn't have a job because she married her DH out of high school and has never worked.  She is the ultimate pleaser and DH was able to get away with all of this for so long because she just didn't question him at all, and just aimed to please him in everything.  She had NO IDEA this stuff was going on.  So, maybe I am wrong about OP and/or OW but this is what has happened to a friend of a friend recently so maybe it's skewing my perspective.

[Banana731]

Yes, I was comparing the two parties and coming to conclusions about why the married injured party (the OP) might be given a little leeway to feel entitled to not bend over backwards to accommodate the OWs (supposed) and dh's wishes. If it's judgement to say that having an affair with someone who is married or not well known to you is risky, then I stand by it. Actually, after reading another post by the OP, it seems that the affair was for at least 9 months. If you have no idea in that time frame that your lover is hiding something that big, then he is an extremely good liar or you are very unobservant.

I don't really think the OW has much of the blame, no matter. I think at this point the OW could be an ally for the OP. As much as it hurts to think that, OP, this woman has nothing to lose by being honest with you, nor you with her. I'm not saying you should spill your guts and divulge info that could be used against you later in divorce court, but i think civil conversation may get some much needed insight. You don't even know if you want to stay. If she wants your DH to be with her, doesn't being honest about the continued affair (if it is going on) help her, if it makes you want to leave? Even if all she wants is your DH to accept the baby as part of his family, or provide financially, aren't you going to be more willing to consider these things if you are actually getting the truth from someone?

Chances are good that if he's lying to you, he's also lying to her. Maybe it's naive of me, but she seems much more likely to be the place where you will get honest answers at this point.

[mammal_mama]

It's true that the OP can't prevent the OW from having access to her kids if she and her husband divorce, and she also can't legally prevent her husband from bringing this child into any home that the two of them share, if he chooses to totally disregard the rawness of this wound and subject his wife, their two children, and his child with the OW to what may be a very hurtful situation for ALL of them if he just has to rush things and dump this situation on all of them right now.

For that matter, I suppose he can "legally" bring other women into their shared home if he wants to be that crass. It may be illegal in many states for him to have sex with these women, because of old fashioned laws that may have been left on the books, but he could probably still bring them in.

The OP simply has a legal and moral right to determine what situation is best for her and her kids. I was just saying that I can understand and sympathize with her desire to keep her kids away from the OW. I know there are limits to all of our powers when it comes to protecting our kids. I still think she's a great mom and I don't think she needs to worry about how her kids may perceive her in the future. I think kids know who is always there for them and concerned about their day to day needs, and a parent who's managed to spend enough time away from his family to create a second life isn't a parent that they're used to counting on 24/7.

[serenbat]

Quote:

 It may be illegal in many states for him to have sex with these women, because of old fashioned laws that may have been left on the books, but he could probably still bring them in. The OP simply has a legal and moral right to determine what situation is best for her and her kids.

it's laughable! this line of thinking seems archaic

I don't even think a lawyer would entertain it, let alone a judge would probably set up visitation for kids- Morally? it's well past that and you can't go back

[Banana731]

ITA. I'd like to think I could take the "moral highground" and let the child in, but who knows?! And it seems as if there is so much more under the surface, it's a difficult task to get to the other side of those waters.

And it's definitely okay to take as much time as you need to decide that, OP!

[serenbat]

Quote:

"moral highground"

that's RIGHT!

or "Daddy's morally bad"- I don't see it too many different ways!

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

it's laughable! this line of thinking seems archaic

I don't even think a lawyer would entertain it, let alone a judge would probably set up visitation for kids- Morally? it's well past that and you can't go back

I was responding to your comment that the husband legally has the right, while he and the OP share the same home, to bring the child over right now. I understand that he legally can do this, irregardless of whether the OP is ready for it and irregardless of how forcing such an interaction so early on might cause emotional harm to the OP and all of the children.

I understand that it's legal, and I was pointing out that it would also be legal for him to bring other women in for a visit -- maybe not to have sex, but, say, if he wanted to just walk in with his current OW and invite her to plunk down on the couch and stay a while, he wouldn't be breaking any laws by doing it.

[mammal_mama]

And I meant that the OP's legal and moral rights are to do the best she can to provide the best situation she can for herself and her kids. But she can only do what she can do; if their father wants to be a total jerk and just do everything his way without regard for anyone else's feelings, it will just be too bad for the kids while they're on his watch. But she'll still have plenty of influence in their lives herself.

[kathymuggle]

The toddler should be a part of your childrens and husbands life.  I believe children have a right to have a relationship with their half sibling.  I would be livid as an adult if I found out I had a half sibling I was kept away from.

So you have a decision to make:

Stay with him and accept this child will be part of  your family 

or 

Divorce DH.  Your children and the toddler can visit each other as he sees fit on his time.

I am sorry you are going through this.  Personally,  I would take some time to make a plan with some timelines.  One plan could be for staying together, with marital counselling or whatever else you need from him.  Another plan would be separation  - what do you need to do to make that happen? 

In either case, Dh should introduce the kids to their sisters soon.  Nothing will be gained by waiting.  If you intend to leave him, a neutral spot is fine; if you intend to stay together, she will spend time (perhaps lots of it) in the family home, so that seems appropriate.

Sorry you are dealing with this.  You can do this.  Take care.

kathy

[Banana731]

The moral highground, meaning, Not letting your own feelings of bitterness, betrayal, and anger towards dh come between a potentially close life-long relationship between the half siblings. The opposite of which would be saying, "Um, no way, pay your child support, if you want to stay married to me that kid is not a physical part of our lives..."

My statement had nothing to do with DH. Only what my, personal, moral battle might be in the same situation.

But i would think my Dh was kind of a UA violation...

[mamatoabirdie]

I'm honestly kind of shocked that so many commenters seem to be demanding that OP "put on her big girl pants" and do the right thing...meaning, accept this little girl into her life and just deal with the consequences of her husband's infidelity.

we are all posting on mothering.com.  we love children here.  that's what we're about.  not a single person posting on this thread is not an advocate for children.  I'm sure in everyone's heart of hearts, we can all root for this little girl and a relationship between her and her siblings.  we can all talk about how the RIGHT thing for this little girl would be for the grown ups to separate their feelings from the reality of her existence.  I'm sure we can all agree that it is the ideal situation.

HOWEVER, there ARE feelings involved.  the op has had her entire reality (or the illusion of such) completely shattered into a million pieces.  her family is torn apart, her trust is totally broken, her relationship is hanging by a thread, her FAMILY is on the verge of totally breaking down.  the partner she trusted and married has come to her and said he has totally violated her in every which way, and now  has proof of it that will walk this earth for the rest of her natural born life.  OF COURSE this little girl didn't ask to be born and is just an innocent bystander in all of this.  OF COURSE she deserves a two parent house-hold and tons of love.  she is just a baby.  but in my opinion, it is just totally unkind to demand that the OP just face the music and deal with it.  regardless of where her marriage was before all of this, just walking out on a marriage with children involved is no piece of cake.  I don't care how right it seems to many of us, it's not easy.  

OP doesn't seem to be looking for us to tell her to grow up and deal with it.  I think she knows that she has a very long road of healing and growing ahead of her.  one day, she will probably even look back and be grateful for this time in her life.  I think she needs our support right now, as mothers who know what it is to love your children fiercely, to honor other children, and to sometimes have to make really, really hard decisions in life.  I totally believe she  has it in her heart to accept and love this little girl, but I just think it's unfair for anyone to tell her that she owes the world something right now. she is going through a serious crisis and it will take time for her to be able to make some decisions.  right now, she can make a decision to not make a decision.  I know she asked some questions and wanted some answers and I have seen some really amazing perspective on this thread, but I really feel bad that she has opened herself and has received such hostile responses from some posters.  

[phathui5]

Quote:

And you are probably right that the other child deserves to have a two parent family also. But the reality is that in order to even have the POSSIBILITY of a two parent family, you have to get involved with someone who not in a commited relationship already

Exactly! In the OP's case, if the OW had wanted her child to have a two-parent family, she should have picked someone who was available to be a partner.

[serenbat]

Quote:

I'm honestly kind of shocked that so many commenters seem to be demanding that OP "put on her big girl pants" and do the right thing...meaning, accept this little girl into her life and just deal with the consequences of her husband's infidelity.

so your alternative is to just wait until she (the adult) is ready to be an adult? and in the meantime the other child just waits it out? this somehow is supportive of the child (children)? 

I guess I feel the way I do because the OP is the adult here, not the child.

ETA - no one here knows the other woman and IF she knew or not

[mammal_mama]

mamatoabirdie, I love your post and I totally agree with you!

When talking about the OP's obligation to just focus on caring for herself and her children right now, I'm saying that these need to be the three most important people in her world right now, and these are the three people that she is personally obligated to -- not that one child is of more value than another child in the universal scheme of things.

There's absolutely no need to rush into anything right now.

[phathui5]

I have a half-sister I met when I was 13. I didn't suffer any ill effects because our mothers didn't introduce us sooner. The OP shouldn't have to feel pressured to introduce the kids to each other now just because her dh has decided that it would be easier for him. And yes, the other child waits it out. She's a baby, she'll be fine.

[mamatoabirdie]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

so your alternative is to just wait until she (the adult) is ready to be an adult? and in the meantime the other child just waits it out? this somehow is supportive of the child (children)? 

I guess I feel the way I do because the OP is the adult here, not the child.

ETA - no one here knows the other woman and IF she knew or not

as a matter of fact...yes.  if OP needs a little time to heal, to get to a point of sound mind and clarity, I absolutely support that.  this is not a run of the mill, I-need-to-be-an-adult moment.  this is a mega, mega game-changing event in OP's life and she has the right to take some time before making certain life-altering decisions.  

this event, in general, IS NOT the OP's fault.  she is NOT responsible for her husband's actions, and not responsible for cleaning them up.  he is.  she is responsible to herself and her children at this point, and if given the proper time to heal, I can almost guarantee that she will embrace this other child.  to force everything right now seems to be a royal mistake.  the little girl is just a baby and will not know the difference.  six months, a year...it's not going to matter to kids.  hell...even a few years.  what is MOST supportive of all children involved is that the adults take care of themselves first so that they can make sound and rational decisions for the little ones who can't.  

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

so your alternative is to just wait until she (the adult) is ready to be an adult? and in the meantime the other child just waits it out? this somehow is supportive of the child (children)? 

I guess I feel the way I do because the OP is the adult here, not the child.

In what way is the OP not being an adult? It seems to me that she's been caring for her family throughout this whole time, and working, too. Presumably, she's had to be the adult and be there as a parent for her kids while her husband was out creating this other life.

Also, it is not "not being an adult" to need some time and space to grieve over a betrayal before having to make important life decisions. We don't stop having emotions when we become adults. Real humans continue feeling emotions for their entire lives.

None of the children will be harmed if the OP wants six or so months to process everything before either opening her home to this child or letting her dh arrange some sort of a meeting between the children. Yes, he can legally force it all to happen now if he doesn't really care about anyone's feeligs but his own, and it seems possible that he may do this. Because I don't get the impression that he's exactly being an adult at this time, although he may seem like an adult to anyone who thinks "being an adult" means being emotionally disconnected and only concerned about what's most convenient for you.

[mamatoabirdie]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama 

mamatoabirdie, I love your post and I totally agree with you!

When talking about the OP's obligation to just focus on caring for herself and her children right now, I'm saying that these need to be the three most important people in her world right now, and these are the three people that she is personally obligated to -- not that one child is of more value than another child in the universal scheme of things.

There's absolutely no need to rush into anything right now.

ITA.  she is only responsible for so much right now.  she is definitely not responsible for making sure that ow, dh, and baby girl are happy and taken care of.  baby girl has parents to tend to her needs and op deserves a little time and support right now.  no one will come out of this situation unscathed, but nothing needs to be rushed right now.  

[mamatoabirdie]

Originally Posted by phathui5 

I have a half-sister I met when I was 13. I didn't suffer any ill effects because our mothers didn't introduce us sooner. The OP shouldn't have to feel pressured to introduce the kids to each other now just because her dh has decided that it would be easier for him. And yes, the other child waits it out. She's a baby, she'll be fine.

agreed. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

she is NOT responsible for her husband's actions, and not responsible for cleaning them up.  he is.  she is responsible to herself and her children at this point,

these are also his children and I don't see she has all the say here regardless of how she feels

maybe HE is trying we are only hearing her side of it- as with everything there are more sides always