What Does a Day of Breastfeeding Your 2-Year Old Look Like?

[pickle18]

I'm curious   DS is 21 months, coming up on his 2nd birthday fast, and we nurse (what feels like) almost constantly, day and night.  

He can only get to sleep at night by nursing, intermittently for 10-15 min. sessions as he winds down, and a solid 30 minutes to an hour to finally nod off.  He is on the boob most of the night (latching on roughly hourly), at least one or two of those are real 30 min. feedings, the rest maybe 5-10 minutes (I'm guessing - I'm half conscious).  The last two hours before waking he is pretty much permanently attached to me, flopping like a fish. We get up, eat breakfast, aaannnnnddd...then more on-demand nursing!  For another half an hour, to an hour.  Maybe hour break for playtime, and repeat.  Afternoon is more sporadic (could be lots of little sessions, or he might be preoccupied, depending on what we're up to), but he is totally attached at the boob for his entire 3+ hour nap.  I can rarely detach long enough to pee, and he usually greets me with a sleepy wail and request to nurse as soon as I return. He simply cannot sleep without it.  We do lots more nursing in the evening in bits around dinner time, but by then I've lost track!

Absolutely 100% of this nursing is initiated by him (QUITE intently), so we are not remotely in the realm of "don't offer, don't refuse."  Which is fine by me - I'm not looking to wean or complaining, just looking for a lil support and encouragement - and also honestly wondering how typical this is?  I hear alot of mothers mention their toddlers occasionally STTN, or one or two nightfeeds, or feeding a handful of times a day - and I start to wonder if we are loopy outliers. 

Am I on the right track for continuing to let him nurse on demand?  He is an intense, spirited lil guy, and a toddler to boot, so I figure he must be needing this...

eta: he does drink water, diluted juice, or coconut/almond milk and eats a TON (big kid, big appetite) - wide variety of foods, including odd/spicy/strong flavors, tons of veggies, etc.

[flyrabbitfly]

Not like I thought it would!

Like you, I hear from others that nursing their toddler looks nothing like nursing a newborn, i.e.: they nurse down to sleep for nap and bedtime, plus a wakeup nurse and once or twice during the day. NOT! I will say that there have been a few short interludes when we only nurse a few times during the day and upon waking and have only woken up once or twice at night to nurse, and each time I think this is the new normal, and then teeth happen, or a move happens, or travel happens, or a scary dog happens, or sickness happens, and we are back to nursing many times at night and throughout the day. Sometimes I don't have any idea what the issue is: the fairy farted on the moon or something, but it is pretty much always something! Twice he's had stomach bugs that put us literally back to newborn nursing, i.e. every 30 min to 1 hr all day, all night.

These days the only sleep advantage I have on you is that I started to pop him off when he really fell asleep around 19 or 20 mo (DS is 32 mo now), so I can get up at nap time, and at night I sleep better when he isn't tickling me every 20 seconds with sleepy suckling.

Another thing that maybe helps at night these days is we've started waking him up by a certain time in the morning and at naptime. This way he seems more tired at night and sleeps through a little more. Like 4 hour stretches. Occasionally even 6, and then I wake up hearing angels sing from above and all. Or maybe we are just in between farting fairies and teeth (we still have those two-year molars hanging over us).

But also, like you, though it is sometimes hard and exhausting, it is doable and I feel like if he didn't need it he wouldn't ask. And I wonder if a lot of the families who have few nursing demands put some kind of limit on it. A friend of mine night-weaned and then found daytime nursing go down to just once or twice a day. On the one hand, that sounds great, but on the other I would hate to take the trust he has in this form of food and comfort away from him. And then there is just that kids are different. Some kids will wean themselves around this age, and others will wean themselves WAY down the road  (sometime before college- just kidding). Some days (mostly nights) it is kind of crappy, but I'm not working, I don't have somewhere else to be. This is my work. So it's what we do.

[luckiest]

I'm right there with you!!  DS is 26 months and nurses...a lot.  I look at other, younger breastfed babies and it seems like sometime in the second year they taper down on their own to nursing just when going to sleep or waking up.  Not mine, but he has always been high needs, so I assume this is just part of that.

He nurses 2-3 times at night, a prolonged session upon waking, maybe 2-3 times before napping (not including nursing to sleep, another prolonged session), at least once DURING nap, waking up from nap, and untold number of times between nap and bed time.  When he's winding down in the evenings he seriously cluster feeds like an infant...it's really just "false starts" to bed time.  He's super high energy and needs the help winding down and being still.  

One bright spot now is that he almost never asks to nurse if we're in public (unless he's really tired) and if we're busy out of the house, he will go ages without nursing.

[Lazurii]

Both my kiddos, when two, nursed intensely.  Every session was initiated by them (with screaming and clothes ripping if asked to wait a bit), so, like you, there was no "don't offer, don't refuse."

I had a hard time nursing my toddlers, but I chalk that up to tandem nursing.  If I had been nursing only one I think it would have been a lot smoother for everyone involved.

I do want to add that when I nightweaned my kids (my son at 20 months, my daughter just in the past few days) my quality of sleep went up dramatically.  It made it easier to deal with every day irritations.

[McGucks]

I was a SAHM for 2.5 years and am now at work full-time.  We co-sleep.  DS will be 3 years old in a couple months.  We nurse around dawn for probably 30 minutes, on and off (he is half-asleep and this usually gets him back to sleep).  Then again as soon as I get home from work...then pretty much any time I sit down (he has stopped trying during meals).  He nurses to sleep.  Sometimes if I need to make a phone call or help him get himself together after an upset (a hurt, a tantrum, etc.). 

He is a nursing machine.  I don't think I'd have kept my sanity the past year were it not for the nursing, though...it's a cure-all and helps us through the rough times.  It is also kind of maddening at times, for sure, because he wants to nurse sometimes when I would just like to SIT.

[pickle18]

Originally Posted by flyrabbitfly 

But also, like you, though it is sometimes hard and exhausting, it is doable and I feel like if he didn't need it he wouldn't ask. And I wonder if a lot of the families who have few nursing demands put some kind of limit on it. A friend of mine night-weaned and then found daytime nursing go down to just once or twice a day. On the one hand, that sounds great, but on the other I would hate to take the trust he has in this form of food and comfort away from him. And then there is just that kids are different. Some kids will wean themselves around this age, and others will wean themselves WAY down the road  (sometime before college- just kidding). Some days (mostly nights) it is kind of crappy, but I'm not working, I don't have somewhere else to be. This is my work. So it's what we do.

  You had me cracking up with the farting fairies!  And yes, I completely agree with you - it's alot, but I'm here for him (thankfully) so it's how we roll.  It's my work, and I don't mind - and I know this phase will pass all too soon!  Hearing from you and others helps me feel more normal, and more supported as we go.  Thanks!

Originally Posted by luckiest 

I'm right there with you!!  DS is 26 months and nurses...a lot.  I look at other, younger breastfed babies and it seems like sometime in the second year they taper down on their own to nursing just when going to sleep or waking up.  Not mine, but he has always been high needs, so I assume this is just part of that.

He nurses 2-3 times at night, a prolonged session upon waking, maybe 2-3 times before napping (not including nursing to sleep, another prolonged session), at least once DURING nap, waking up from nap, and untold number of times between nap and bed time.  When he's winding down in the evenings he seriously cluster feeds like an infant...it's really just "false starts" to bed time.  He's super high energy and needs the help winding down and being still.  

One bright spot now is that he almost never asks to nurse if we're in public (unless he's really tired) and if we're busy out of the house, he will go ages without nursing.

Oh, luckiest, our kids really are from the same planet.   I'm not entirely surprised but greatly comforted by your appearance on this thread - thank you!  We have the same deal, and I do think it's a high needs thing.  I've heard that high needs kids are often slow to wean, and I suppose it's not shocking that their breastfeeding needs are...um...high.   I do think it's very calming and centering for him, seeing as how his emotions are so extreme and stormy, and how sensitive he is and aware of everything around him.  So I'm glad it's a trick I still have up my sleeve!

As for outside of the house, I'm lucky that DS is a koala kid because he still loves his Ergo (and my back can still handle it - he's actually lighter than he was as a chunk a munk baby) so we nurse on the go that way - HUGE help when doing grocery shopping or looking for a library book, and the need strikes!

[EchoSoul]

Mine's the very same. Although he takes 2-3 hour breaks at night, and doesn't nurse at all for his naps except to take a nap, or if he's stirring and wants to settle back down. But he nurses often during the day. As often as every hour, as infrequent as every 2 hours if he's REALLY preoccupied, and quite often especially if he's upset.

He drinks lots of water, diluted juice, and *sometimes* almond milk as well. So yeah, it seems to be just a pull of the cards whether they're winding down by this age, or staying just the same as always! lol

[McGucks]

I forgot to mention that my almost-three year old still wakes up several times a night, and nursing is the only way to get him back down without a major screaming party.  He has just recently been able to only nurse for a few minutes, then, miraculously, often follows my suggestion to turn over so I can pat his back.

I have not slept through the night since July of 2009, which is when I got pregnant.

[susanmary]

Oh the reassurance of knowing you aren't alone! And a great thread too! Just a little unsettling that my 13 month old probably won't be passing through this phase any time this year!

Do you all have to go to bed at the same time as your little one like me? It's really embarrassing if someone wants to call over or phone "when the baby is asleep"! And I do feel sad knowing that I've let friends down by not being able to join them on their hen night or wedding reception. Do those situations happen for you all too?

:-)

[pickle18]

susanmary - yup, that's the way we roll over here, too!  Sometimes friends (particularly childless) don't understand, but we just explain - lil dude is my top priority, and we try to fit in friends where we can (alot more email, for example), but it's cut waaaay back since DS arrived.  I hope they'll be understanding as I would be for them. One day things will be different. 

So, I just had to update you guys because the WEIRDEST thing happened last night - DS slept nearly 6 hours without nursing!!!!!!!  Granted, he has heard me mention that we nurse often (but no bad connotation to it) AND he dropped his nap this week, but STILL!  Woke up after about 4 hours to him tossing and turning a bit, and my eyelids shot open, wide awake, like something was wrong.  Then I realized he hadn't nursed yet!  I was fully prepared to nurse him, only he rolled over, snuggled with DH, and went right back to sleep!

Well, needless to say, that left me wide awake, in utter amazement, and feeling weird - so I didn't fall back asleep until an hour and a half later, when he finally needed me again.    It made me realize how used to snuggling with him I am, and how deeply used to our groove I've become.  Going to work even harder on treasuring this special time!

And right now, we just got back an hour or so ago from playing at a friend's house (where he only nursed once) and he's passed out sleeping on the couch, without my nipple in his mouth - feels sooooo weird.  Will have to see if this is a new trend (skip nap, easier sleep).  Brave new world,  if it is!

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by susanmary 

Oh the reassurance of knowing you aren't alone! And a great thread too! Just a little unsettling that my 13 month old probably won't be passing through this phase any time this year!

Do you all have to go to bed at the same time as your little one like me? It's really embarrassing if someone wants to call over or phone "when the baby is asleep"! And I do feel sad knowing that I've let friends down by not being able to join them on their hen night or wedding reception. Do those situations happen for you all too?

:-)

My three year old goes to sleep when we do. Regarding weddings, I've missed several.

Nursing needs are intense the first three years. I have been reading a lot about traditional societies and hunter-gather tribes (studies in the 1990's), and these children have very natural unrestricted nursing patterns for 3-5 years, until mother becomes pregnant again. It is common for three year olds to nurse every hour and twenty minutes, on average, depending upon the tribe. Infants nurse 2-4 times per hour the first year or so.  These are people who are not influenced by the sleep experts, medical community, literature, demands and views of industrialized society. The children have, for the most part, very natural, unrestricted nursing patterns. It puts it all into perspective when we feel that children in industrialized and western society nurse a lot, when actually they are just doing what humans are hard wired to do in order to survive as long as our species has.

[Lazurii]

But indigenous tribes have to work less in order to have a better quality of life than us, so there aren't as many demands on their time.  They also have an entire tribe looking after the well-being of the mother and child, including sharing food and cross-feeding.

Until Western society adopts a "small, intense community" paradigm I'm afraid that letting children nurse to biological norms will be exhausting for most women.

[susanmary]

Hi ladies,

Pickle18 oh my goodness ... What!!! My fingers are crossed for you that this trend continues. We all know how quick things can turn around when it comes to our kids sleep & nursing needs, please do keep us posted! :-) not only reassurance but also hope! This really is a great thread.

Regarding so many missed evening social occasions .... I do hope our friend's understand ... someday at least. I totally agree, friend's who don't have kids find it the most difficult. In Ireland, bottle feeding is the norm so my childless friends are used to seeing their other friends that have children out and about without a bother.

Aslago, thanks for sharing your reading. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that research was common knowledge. Instead we are bombarded by all these "sleep experts" (grrrrrrr) saying that our kids "SHOULD" be sleeping x many hours without feeding, etc.


By the way ladies, have we established .... Are we "loopy outliers" as Pickle18 proposed?? ;-D

[Lazurii]

By the way ladies, have we established .... Are we "loopy outliers" as Pickle18 proposed?? ;-D

Oh, I doubt we're outliers.

Loopy, on the other hand...                    

YES.

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by Lazurii 

But indigenous tribes have to work less in order to have a better quality of life than us, so there aren't as many demands on their time.  They also have an entire tribe looking after the well-being of the mother and child, including sharing food and cross-feeding.

Until Western society adopts a "small, intense community" paradigm I'm afraid that letting children nurse to biological norms will be exhausting for most women.

It's true, and baby's grandmother seems to play the biggest role in helping mother, MIL (none) and husband not so much (apart from the husband hunting, which is very important). The first few years, mother's main job is to nurse her infant, and respond quickly to cries and needs (especially the first 18 mos. or so), but depending upon the tribe and her family circumstances, she may also hunt (with baby on her back!), forage, collect wood, set up camp and so on. It's really fascinating, I have been reading upon this subject the past couple of years, since I noticed quite a disparity among what is instinctive regarding mothering and western child rearing practices. I just wanted to know why and what on earth makes us so different in addressing our children's needs. Industrialization, pushing children beyond their readiness to be independant mini adults, and the influence of child rearing 'experts', begun with weighing stations set up by formula companies to increase formula sales leading to the first well baby vists and 'peds', Luther Emmet Holt, gosh the list goes on. It's complex, I had no idea when I first embarked upon it. But it seems, we know more than we think we do about mothering, and it's engrained for survival of our species.

[Lazurii]

Originally Posted by Asiago 

It's true, and baby's grandmother seems to play the biggest role in helping mother,

LOL!  My mother's response to my struggles with my kids and PPD was just CIO and weaning.

Something broke in our society, and it's going to take a radical shift in cultural thinking to fix it.  But, as I'm sure you know, those first few generations of change are going to get a lot of push-back.

I do think as a Western society we're making progress.

OP, I'm sorry to go so deep into this OT, but it's just fascinating to me.  And it resonates so deeply with me since I think a lot of my personal frustration in life comes from my mothering instincts being thwarted by "modern" thinking.

[skycheattraffic]

I'm going to preface this with the fact that DD has been very easygoing as a baby and is generally fairly mellow.
Please don't hate me but I'm on the other end of the scale. DD is 22 months old and nurses to nap, at bedtime and 1 to 3 times overnight. I never nightweaned her and offered lots until about 18 months and she nursed anywhere from 8 to 12 times in 24 hours, sometimes more. What changed is that I became pregnant and as the nipple pain increased, I had to go the don't offer don't refuse route. I will still absolutely nurse her more often if she asks or seems to need it but I just couldn't keep up with her. DD is also in her own room on a (very low) double bed. I nurse her down and then I'm able to leave 30-75 minutes later. She sleeps better in her own space and twice has slept 11 hours and 3 or 4 times has gone 7 or 8 hours. When I stay in bed with her, she wants to nurse every 1.5 to 3 hours all night.
I posted this not as a brag but to highlight that
A) my DD has a completely different personality/disposition
B) we are not cosleeping and
C) I'm pregnant which usually changes/diminishes the milk supply.
So we have opposite circumstances with very different children that result in different nursing frequency. I'm honestly a little sad that she cut back so drastically and I wasn't expecting to be pregnant this soon. I would have been happy to nurse her more often longer. I'm fully aware that many toddlers have a higher need for nursing and that it's completely natural. I may be in your exact shoes in a couple of years if our second LO turns out to be more attached to nursing. Heck, I may be there in August once DD sees the newborn nursing all the time lol. Keep up the good work mamas! You are wonderful for continuing to meet your toddlers' needs.

[luckiest]

Pickle, that is wonderful news!!!  Our children must be bound by some unworldly cosmic force, because I came here to report a similar breakthrough!

DS went ALL.NIGHT. without nursing.  ALL NIGHT.  I woke up once, immediately thought how weird it was that I was facing the outside of the bed, away from DS, then realized I was awake but didn't hear him...looked over and he was snuggled up to DH, so I went back to sleep.  At 7am he asked to nurse - ASKED, didn't cry for it - and I commented to DH - "Holy $h!t, he slept all night!" and DH said, "Uh, no he didn't."  HAHA!  He apparently woke up a lot, but DH snuggled him back down.  He usually flips out if DH tried to comfort him at all.

That was a few days ago and it hasn't repeated itself, but still - just knowing that it's possible gives me hope.

Relatedly, I started trying the Pantley pull-off method (again, for like the fifth time) with actual success!  When we'd tried it before, he would go immediately to the red-zone if I tried to break his suction, so I gave up quickly.  This time, there was no crying at all...I pulled him off, he rooted around and started waking up, so I let him latch back on, pulled him off again after maybe twenty seconds, and he just rolled over and went back to sleep.  After two nights of that, now when he wakes up he only nurses for a minute, if that, and lets go himself and rolls over.  It's a beautiful thing!  His night wakings have also gone from 3-5 times to TWO.  I can handle two.

What prompted me to start again is that my nipples started flaking and cracking (either the winter weather or maybe something hormonal because my period finally returned this month) and I physically could not handle the nursing anymore.  During the day he has only been nursing maybe 6 or 7 times...to sleep, when he wakes up, and only once or twice in between.  I hope this pattern holds!!  

[susanmary]

Thanks Ladies..... a laugh ....support... great information.... and the hope of more uninterrupted sleep! <3 :-D

[pickle18]

nak (of course haha)

all - no worries about OT - I think it's directly relevant.  I agree - we are way off track, and some opposition is expected as we trust our instincts instead of the "experts."

luckiest - that is AMAZING!!!  Mine also goes straight to red zone, but might be worth a try...

nothing earth shattering here - we are more or less back to normal :-) but like luckiest, it was a preview into a different kind of life, for sure (with pros and cons - I hear you on that skycheattraffic!) - trying to savor and enjoy, but with 2 year old molars coming in and DS constantly chomping on my nipples, it's harder sometimes than others hahaha.