Piers Morgan falls ill days after a public flu shot with Dr Oz - Page 3

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

By whose authority do we test him?

Originally Posted by pek64 


Whoever got him to get the vaccination on television in the first place!

He's an adult.  He chose to get the vaccination on television.

All the calls to "test him!", coming from people who are advocates for informed choice, seem rather bizarre.  He's an intelligent person and not without resources:  if he wants to be tested for flu he'll find a way, I'm sure.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by erinmattsmom88 

Yes, it would. It would prove he has the flu. Take the whole shot debate out of it for a second. If someone presents at the ER or doctor's office with flu-like symptoms that person should be tested, plain and simple. Those results get reported and hopefully we will have more of an idea on actual flu cases.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[pek64]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

He's an adult.  He chose to get the vaccination on television.

All the calls to "test him!", coming from people who are advocates for informed choice, seem rather bizarre.  He's an intelligent person and not without resources:  if he wants to be tested for flu he'll find a way, I'm sure.

He's the person in front of the camera, but he doesn't do the show alone! Producers, etc, influence or sometimes dictate what gets done.

I agree that it's bizarre that those questioning vaccines want to know what they're debating, while those in favor of vaccinating want to rely on supposition.

[Rrrrrachel]

To be clear, pek, saying "we don't know if he has the flu or not" isn't relying on supposition. It's the opposite.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by erinmattsmom88 

Um, no. I should have clarified and have been extremely specific since it obviously wasn't clear what I meant.

He along with everyone else who presents with flu-like symptoms should be tested. Why not?

Where can I read about this data you speak of? So, current numbers on flu cases are only on those that have been tested?

You should look into how data on flu is gathered. Specifically the distinction made between flu and flu like illness. It's not necessary to test every single person who presents with flu like illness to get good data on true flu prevalence.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/pdf/overview.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by pek64 

I agree that it's bizarre that those questioning vaccines want to know what they're debating, while those in favor of vaccinating want to rely on supposition.

Personally, I'm not supposing anything. My point is that the flu shot doesn't cause the flu, period, so testing him for the flu isn't going to demonstrate anything about whether the flu shot caused his flu--since it doesn't do that. Testing him will demonstrate something, sure, but I don't see as it demonstrates anything that is really salient vis a vis the shot. I'm not opposed to him getting tested if that's what he wants though. The thing is, negative test=the shot didn't cause the flu. Positive test=he was already exposed. *shrug*. 

[erinmattsmom88]

He's an adult. He chose to get the vaccination on television.

All the calls to "test him!", coming from people who are advocates for informed choice, seem rather bizarre. He's an intelligent person and not without resources: if he wants to be tested for flu he'll find a way, I'm sure.

It's not a matter of him wanting to get tested. He should get tested if he is going to be lumped in with all the supposed flu cases this year.

I, specifically, am not calling for just him to get tested. Everyone should get tested that has flu-like symptoms. No one is answering my question... Why isn't everyone getting tested? The numbers of flu cases would be more accurate, correct? Maybe not 100%, but perhaps, closer to 100%. Why is this a problem??? If this is the worst year ever for the flu, and the government, media, pharm. companies are going to push the flu shot as aggressively as they are, shouldn't we have a clearer understanding of what the numbers really are? All the scare tactics this year haven't persuaded me to get the shot, but I'd like to see some real numbers on cases. We should all be privy to that information.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

To be clear, pek, saying "we don't know if he has the flu or not" isn't relying on supposition. It's the opposite.

Suggesting he has "man flu" is not saying "we don't know if he has the flu or not". It implies you know he does not. I know it wasn't you who said it, but you didn't object to the remark, either. That implies you agree with it. If you don't, please make that known, so everyone understands your position.

Why not simply join in the call for him to be tested? If he has a cold, controversy over.

[Rrrrrachel]

Or it's making a joke.

I'm not "joining in the call" because I think it's about the most ridiculous thing ever.

Erin, I see you still haven't don't that reading. Let me assure you, CDC researchers don't gather their flu data by watching CNN.

[Rrrrrachel]

And Erin the reason not to test everyone is its a huge waste of time, money, and resources. T&s is very very far from the worst flu season ever. Is not really even a severe flu season.

[erinmattsmom88]

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Personally, I'm not supposing anything. My point is that the flu shot doesn't cause the flu, period, so testing him for the flu isn't going to demonstrate anything about whether the flu shot caused his flu--since it doesn't do that. Testing him will demonstrate something, sure, but I don't see as it demonstrates anything that is really salient vis a vis the shot. I'm not opposed to him getting tested if that's what he wants though.

Testing him for the flu will prove he has it or not. Once you have that information, then you can argue whether or not it was the shot that caused it vs something else.

The thing is, negative test=the shot didn't cause the flu. Positive test=he was already exposed. *shrug*.

No, a negative test= no flu. Positive test=flu. The test cannot prove that it was the shot that caused it or not if the test is positive. Nor, does a negative test indicate the shot didn't cause the flu. How is that possible? Am I missing something here?

[erinmattsmom88]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Or it's making a joke.

I'm not "joining in the call" because I think it's about the most ridiculous thing ever.

Erin, I see you still haven't don't that reading. Let me assure you, CDC researchers don't gather their flu data by watching CNN.

Geez, can I have a little more time to read those articles?? You posted those links not even 10 minutes ago.

Yeah, let's hope the CDC doesn't gather their flu data from CNN. Again, I'm saying that everyone who presents with flu-like symptoms needs to be tested to prove they actually have it. Not just that idiot on CNN.

[erinmattsmom88]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

And Erin the reason not to test everyone is its a huge waste of time, money, and resources. T&s is very very far from the worst flu season ever. Is not really even a severe flu season.

REALLY??????

All I have been reading is about how awful this year is. A test is a huge waste of time, money and resources?????? What about all the time, money, and resources it takes to create a flu shot that is only 50-60% effective. What about all the time, money, and resources our government uses in the form of our tax dollars to push their agendas to help profit big pharma??

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by erinmattsmom88 

Testing him for the flu will prove he has it or not. Once you have that information, then you can argue whether or not it was the shot that caused it vs something else.

THE FLU SHOT CANNOT, BIOLOGICALLY, CAUSE FLU.  There is nothing to argue about.

[erinmattsmom88]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

THE FLU SHOT CANNOT, BIOLOGICALLY, CAUSE FLU.  There is nothing to argue about.

I am not talking about the damn shot. Please stop saying that I am saying the shot causes the flu. Reread my posts. Where do I say that???

And what do you not understand about this post...

Testing him for the flu will prove he has it or not. Once you have that information, then you can argue whether or not it was the shot that caused it vs something else.

Where do I say the shot causes the flu here????

Easy on the caps, hon.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by erinmattsmom88 

REALLY??????

All I have been reading is about how awful this year is. A test is a huge waste of time, money and resources?????? What about all the time, money, and resources it takes to create a flu shot that is only 50-60% effective. What about all the time, money, and resources our government uses in the form of our tax dollars to push their agendas to help profit big pharma??

I don't know what you've been reading, but no, this is not a severe flu season and it is far far far from the worst ever. It is probably a BAD flu season.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

And Erin the reason not to test everyone is its a huge waste of time, money, and resources. T&s is very very far from the worst flu season ever. Is not really even a severe flu season.

In my area, it's being called a severe flu season.

Surely there are ways to make testing less expensive. Let's put some of the research dollars into improving testing, for a change.

[Rrrrrachel]

It is not necessary to test everyone who presents with flu like symptoms to get accurate data on the flu. Doing so is overkill. As such it is a waste.

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by erinmattsmom88 

I am not talking about the damn shot. Please stop saying that I am saying the shot causes the flu. Reread my posts. Where do I say that???

You wrote:

then you can argue whether or not it was the shot that caused it vs something else

and I (among others) am stating that there is no possible argument about whether the shot caused the flu, because flu shots cannot cause flu.

[Rrrrrachel]

Pek, again, idk what you're reading or hearing, but it's not. This is objectively true. Maybe your area is having a pocket of severe flu, but nationwide it is not a severe flu season.

In a severe flu season hundreds if not thousands of people DIE. That is just not the case this year. It might be a "bad flu" in that it makes you feel extra awful, but that is very different than being a severe flu SEASON.