Twomommy regarding letrozole vs Clomid...According to the RE it is "easier" on women of advanced maternal age. I took this to mean easier on the estrogen system. Letrozole inhibits an enzyme called aromatase which interferes with the production of estrogen temporarily whereas Clomid blocks estrogen receptors. The effects of Clomid last longer in terms of estrogen inhibition. Also I have PCOS. Letrozole has been shown to be more effective in some cases for women with PCOS. I hope this helps.
Queer Conceptions: February 2013 - Page 8
twomommy - we didn't use any extra substances to help our swimmers, just an orgasm right before and right after. I completely agree with friederike - it's not sexy but if you can relax enough I think it's worth trying. (Depending on your body and preferences you might want to just opt for a quickie with a vibrator, externally only) No cups, the sperm will stick to it and you don't have enough in those vials to waste any. The sperm bank will likely send instructions for thawing and using the syringe, but of course we're here for you, too. I can try to see if I still have my bank's instructions if you'd like to take a look in advance.
twomommy -for the last two insems we did, the first time around, I used the Instead cups, but I felt like I might be keeping swimmers out, so for when we decided to start back up, I ditched the Instead cup plan. We used a speculum for the cycle we got our BFP (and the time before that). If you use a speculum, be sure to not let it snap shut when removing it. Either gently release the lock, or pull it out the release it one notch, pull out some more, release a little more, pull out some more, etc. It will really hurt if it snaps shut! DSp wasn't all that graceful when removing it from me. OUCH!
escher - I ovulated CD 16/17 overnight/early morning with my BFP. W/ DD I also ovulated CD16. The more important thing is have a long enough luteal phase. There isn't any kind of concern over a long follicular phase.
escher really sorry to hear that but I guess it's better than wasting money if there's no chance conceiving if that's what she thinks. I haven't heard anything about ovulating after CD15 as Desertsunsets says, I guess it depends on the length of the LP x
friederike I agree very unsexy, esp when you're both sick and man those swimmers are STINKY! I've never let any get that close to be before and now I realise there's a very good reason for that.
sphinxy OMG orgasm before AND after? you're a machine, I couldn't handle that with 3 insems so close together, I think something might have fallen off!!!!!
esenbee ouch that would have hurt.
twomommy - A quick note about ewcm. Not sure if this is scientifically-founded, but I was worried about having less ewcm than usual this cycle and did a little reading about it and found a site that emphasized the importance of staying hydrated and also suggested consuming flax oil. After reading that I realized that in a high-stress work week I had been much worse than usual that week about drinking water and had also fallen out of my regular habit of starting days with ground flax seed added to my breakfast (I add it to lots of things: smoothies, yogurt, cereal). So, I drank a bunch of water and ate some yogurt with ground flax, and within 10 hours or so my cm was much improved. Maybe the CM would have been better by then anyway, but I think the logic is sound - I've even heard people recommend high doses of flax the last two weeks before a baby is due to aid with delivery. For me it fell into the category of it won't harm me in any way, so why not try it?
I am both laughing and enjoying the past couple of posts! This is such a sex/conception strategy positive bunch. Do you suppose in the "non-queer" conception area they give as much excellent and helpful information?
Sphinxy you and your partner as such champs being able to relax enough with the home insem to have an orgasm pre and post!
Esenbee - I wish all who wielded a speculum had your consideration for the exit strategy.
Escher Do you feel like your RE's personal beliefs (right or wrong) are trumping knowledge? It does seem like sometimes Docs can get some myth in their heads or turn some folk tale told to them by a mentor back in their learning days into personal mantra but perhaps he/she isn't explaining their concern well. For instance, could it be a short LP they are concerned about but instead remarked about late O? How long is the LP? Good luck finding evidence to support or refute. I get the sense you're not 100% confident in the RE. Am I misreading that?
Liz, Friederike I cannot tell you how relieved we are by doing the insems at the MD's office. We would stress about when, how much, technique etc. Now to hear more about the ickiness of swimmers just cements our decision!
AFM I was scheduled for a pre-trigger US tomorrow but I woke (CD 11) to more watery CM today and noted that I usually O on CD 13. I was afraid if we waited for the US tomorrow evening we would miss an opportunity to trigger prior to O. So I called and got in today for my US. Evidently the large number of follies I was growing a couple days ago has dwindled to 3 (she suggested some may have over-ripened and dissolved or some may have been small cysts). I am scheduled to trigger at 4 am tomorrow with a Valentines Day insem. (I told the RE we would bring chocolate) She also suggested since I had a large number of eggs developing at different times and now closer to O have so few that if we don't get pregnant this round we might use estradiol in the luteal phase to help synchronize egg development for the next cycle. Anyone have experience here or know anyone who has done this? Oddly my RE also has a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree (no jokes here) and the first studies that pop up when I google "luteal estradiol follicle synchronization" have to do with artificial insemination and embryo transfer in cattle!! Should I be offended yet? My dad is a retired veterinarian....he gets a kick out of this.
lea I've also heard that about the CM and it makes sense, think that having a cold etc affects all sorts of M but have to admit to never having monitored it before.
Darcy awesome news, good luck!
KWPX2 Who knows but I can honestly say I'm not nearly as keen to hear about 'non queer' methods of conception!!!!! So many jokes so little time and funny your dad would get a 'kick' out it. Good luck for the V day insem. That's when I was predicting but a bit earlier as it turns out, looking forward to being on the TWW with you & Darcy
Also, there was a great article on genetic testing in this month's issue of Oprah Magazine. I think you might find it interesting.
Lizbian, boy does overtime suck. lol You never realise just how many people are pregnant until you start reaalllyyy wanting one of your own! Glad your friends are in great spirits with you two TTC. Hope it happnes quickly.
Escher, Its pretty crazy how that surge is. I wish I would have done more testing and tracking last cycle because now that I've gotten "seasoned" at this I understand that mye timing was all off and was way too soon bc I've learned I O normally around CD17 (at the earliest)-CD20 (at the latest) and we insem'd both cycles around CD14 and CD15..mye little egg was still hanging out in the ovary until the swimmers had come and gone. #whati'velearnedTTC. Hopefully you'll get better timing with the next cycle with extra tests. I wonder y your RE said that ovulation after CD15 is too late? What about those with longer cycles who will never O before CD15? Hmm?
Twomommy, glad you two have a new game plan that you're good with! its always exciting when you switch things up. welcome back to temping and charting :)
Darcy, Thank you much! I think the major changing point that set everything in motion was when DP actually called mum for meeh. She used mye phone and told her she know she might not like her, but she loves meeh and hates to see meeh upset about the relationship (well lack thereof at that time) with her. I was at the point where i couldnt talk about her without crying! So she said she'd just like if she would talk to meeh because I really miss her..and surprisingly it worked. I went over that day and really told her how I feel, about how I've always wished I could have her there for support. Told her anytime any girl ever hurt mye feelings I was never able to come to her, and I think that made an impact too. I just wanted her to respect meeh as well as mye relationship and be there for meeh as her daughter. Don't give up hope though, I honestly thought at one point that we would NEVER get to where we are. They even speak almost on a friendly level when they are around. FX for you. So glad that the clomid worked for you! It did well for meeh, but again, I learned mye timing was wayy off! GL!
AFM, well not a lot to report, been trying to pinpoint mye O date. Had a near positive yesterday so I figured if I woke up during the night I'd test. Used the wondfo and looked pretty positive, so later this morning I thought I'd try with the digital. Saw the smiley, so the sharp pains in mye left ovary was definately O pains. Looks like CD20...same as last month oddly enough :) I can't wait to get back in the saddle bc I have high hopes for our next cycle.
Because I was curious, I used an OPK this afternoon and it was a strong positive. Would you try to move up the insem to tomorrow instead of Thursday? My RE is going to think I am crazy but does it make sense to trigger if I am already about to ovulate? I already left a message with RE but I am not sure I will hear back so late in the day. Thanks so much for any advice or btdt.
Darcy I just had this very discussion when at the RE today. She told me to test tonight and again just before I trigger in the morning (4am). If I test + she wanted me to not trigger and call to insem tomorrow versus triggering and insemming Thursday. Hopefully your Doc will call you back. I would call first thing in the AM to see if you can insem tomorrow. Just my opinion.
Darcy: First off, congrats on the 18mm follie!! Wow! What a difference some clomid makes! I so wish you had been prescribed this from the get go! I emailed you about your positive OPK just now. It all depends on how soon you typically see a temp rise (confirming ovulation) after you surge. If I were in your shoes I would reschedule my IUI to tomorrow. I truly believe that I missed ovulation for this exact same reason. Honestly, I think tomorrow is your day, not the day after.
Soto: Thanks for the info! I will look for the article in O magazine. This genetic testing piece is a headache that I did not plan for at all. I've heard good things about Instead cups, but I think I will probably stay laying down with my hips elevated for a good few hours before getting up or inserting a soft cup.
KWPX: I've never heard of taking estradiol in the luteal phase! What does it do? I know estrogen dominates the follicular phase so I don't know what role it would play in the luteal phase. Does it help with antral follicle count? A lot of the articles I come across when I'm searching for info on progesterone or luteal phase support and follicle development is from the animal husbandry world, I guess all mammals ovulate, right? And a lot of research goes into how to get those cattle preggo.
Lea: thank you for the info on flax oil and water. I try to drink a lot of water throughout the day, but I'm bad with the flax. I will definitely increase my flax intake next week (the week leading up to O) and see how that helps.
Esenbee: thank you for the info on the speculum. I do have one, provided by my ob/gyn, but I've never taken it out of its packaging. Its an intimidating instrument. DP already put "batteries for the headlamp" on the shopping list, she's gearing up to do some spelunking.
Escher: I have heard that a long follicular phase can release a nonviable egg. That info is out there somewhere but I don't think it is actual medical advice. I feel like I read that the longer the follicular phase the more impenetrable the egg becomes. But I highly doubt that this is true. Many women ovulate days 15-25 of their cycle and are able to inseminate just fine. Our RE has never mentioned anything about a day 15 cut off and she did the IUI day 17 last cycle so she didn't care. I think if you are doing ultrasound monitoring and watching the follicles grow then everything is okay. Also if the hormone levels are fine in the bloodwork then it shouldn't be an issue.
AFM, getting kinda excited to try IVI at home! already ordered our swimmers, picking them up next week.
KWPX2 - Wow! Crazy that you just had this conversation. The nurse got back to me and I am going in tomorrow at noon. I am so lucky I priority overnighted the swimmers which will arrive by 11am tomorrow morning. What a roller coaster! She also told me not to trigger.
sphinxy - Thank you so much for the advice!
edited: Twomommy - thank you for the quick response. She told me not to trigger so I will just follow her instructions on that one. Thank you so much and yes, it would have been nice to have the clomid from the get go! I am very excited for your IVI - I thought we might have to go that route tomorrow if RE wasn't available!!
TwoMommy - Yes, the estrogen is for antral follicle growth rate. As best I can tell from reading today the studies gave women estrogen to make follicle growth more uniform. I guess what is happening to mine is some are growing so fast they end up ready too soon before O and get dissolved. It sounds like using estrogen would slow some and keep all the follies rolling along with each other. I read in one study done with IVF that the embryo implantation and pregnancy rate was improved by almost 50%. Here is the abstract...
Several other studies concluded that estrogen was worth looking into either in addition to or as an alternative to traditional therapies. I am again very hopeful for us this cycle but if it becomes a bust I am on board with trying something different.
Wow, twomummies, knowing how much you had to pay first certainly puts the gov't funded IVF in perspective... I'm sorry, it must be so difficult. I don't know of anyone currently active in this forum who have experience with multiple IVF cycles, unfortunately... I think prettyisa, kgulbransen, and starling&diesel have all tried at least once, so maybe they'll chime in if they're reading this?
I'm sorry about AF, Friederike. Blargh.
Glad you're feeling better, Lizbian... I hope you're joking about the lack of ozone over Oz!
Escher, more testing always calms my nerves, though my RE too says that once a day is enough... I'm more like 3x/day, even with the u/s monitoring. I am also in complete disagreement with your RE's notion that Oing after CD15 is too late. That's ludicrous! Back in the January thread, when I was having a conniption over late O, CascadiaMama stopped in to tell us how she conceived her son on around CD90, and he seems pretty damn awesome! Even with clomid, I'm Oing on CD17/18, and my clinic is pleased as punch with this. Has your RE presented you with anything to back up their idea?
Thanks for sharing the info about letrozole, KWPX: I think that's what my doc will have me take next, if I'm not pregnant after the six cycles of clomid (I'm on #3), so I'm glad to hear about how others' have experienced it. Your vet reference made me laugh... I've worked at a few farms over the years, and admit to feeling a little like a heifer during this whole TTC trip!
I love your positive attitude about trying at home this next cycle, twomommyfamily! It'll certainly be a learning experience, regardless of the outcome... I think at-homes sound so nice compared to the clinic. Don't forget to add your FF chart to the front page so that I can stalk it, heh heh.
It's so great that you felt O pains and were able to confirm them, fmorris... Doesn't it seem like magic?
Darcy, I'm so excited for you and your follie! So much great support and advice from the rest of you lovely people too, it's just wonderful... Good luck and baby dust for the insem!
AFM: Yesterday I was still surging, so the insem got moved to this morning... Not the state-sanctioned "family day", but my own family day nonetheless! When we saw the follie on yesterday's u/s, it was at 24mm. No wonder I felt swollen on that side! The insem was super-quick, and then I had cramps for most of the day, but by early this evening they'd stopped and I also could no longer feel my left ovary throbbing: Makes me think that I O'd sometime today, and so timing was perfect. We'll see, right? I feel so grateful right now, just for finally getting to have this try... It was a year ago that I called the fertility clinic and got on their waitlist, so it's been a bit of a long road to get here. Thank you all, for your support!!!
The motility of the sperm was 77%, which pleased the RE... And now I'm going to go and scour the internet to find out what the hell that means...
twomommyfamily, please can you move me to the two week wait?
Edited by granite - 2/12/13 at 9:18pm