What do we want from Mindful Vaccination Board? - Page 2

[Jennyanydots]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

If you don't want the forum o be dominated by people who choose to vax on schedule than post more. People who choose to vaccinate on schedule are part of this forum, too, though. They have just as much a right to post threads from their own perspective as you do from yours.

to whom are you responding?  If it is me, then I'm afraid you've misunderstood.  I don't care how much you vaccinate your kids, I just want the space to be friendly to people who do it on a selective/delayed schedule, even if they're delaying indefinitely, and for it not to be dominated by a couple of pushy people who make others feel judged and unwelcome if they're not strictly adhering to the CDC's schedule.

[SweetSilver]

Recently, because we have been refusing booster shots I've been leaning on the non-vax forum, though I am not actually non-vax.  I actually identify quite a bit with the sel/delay crowd because if I were allowed a do-over, I would be in this camp.  

What I would want from Mindful Vaccination would be tolerance of the skepticism we have towards vaccines.  This is not a reaction to anything specific in the forum, simply a statement of what I would expect and hope for posting here.

[littlest birds]

I think the tricky thing here is that a parent may choose to get only one vax and be against others.  For instance I have a non-vaxed child.  Now that she is 10yo, I have thought about doing delayed vaxes.  I do believe that a well-established immune system in an older child can process vaxes with less harm.

I'm not vaccinating now and I would generally post in I'm not Vaccinating.  However, it would be easy for me to shift and be partially vaxing again but still fully against flu shots and chicken pox vaxes.  So then in a discussion about flu vaxes I would criticize the flu vax.  In a discussion about chicken pox I would advise against it for anyone.  I would sound just like I was non-vaxing when speaking adamantly against just a couple of vaxes. 

I would be in Mindful Vax forum legitimately but I would sound like I wasn't. 

When speaking as a partial-vaxing parent about the ones I am avoiding I would not sound supportive even if I were sincerely trying to help my partial-vaxing friends see the wisdom of which part of partial to go with.

[LitMom]

I think this has always been an issue. I was here nearly a decade ago and while there were less trollish posts advocating full vax absolutely exactly on schedule, there was plenty of rudeness and "you'll kill your child!" hysteria from both sides. I did some, I delayed some, I skipped one. Oh, and one reaction, fairly difficult to discount--hives. Can't do the booster for that vaccine, probably...

I'd love to feel that I could ask about finishing that series for my child, or not, and be able to discuss allergic reactions, growing out of them or not, and merits versus risks of finishing, not finishing, delaying til adulthood and making it the adult child's decision... but while I might have done that a decade ago and just waded through the hysterical responses for the reasoned ones, I haven't wanted to do that with the present board. Not sure if it's actually worse, or if it's just that I'm older and I can discuss with IRL friends more easily than I could when my oldest was an infant. (Yes, I've talked to the allergist and our doctor. They say wait years and consider a booster, maybe, as a teen. Which is what we'll do.)

[littlest birds]

One has to be skeptical about their own position to give good advice. 

[prosciencemum]

Wow great discussion. Really interesting to read everyone's thoughts.

My question on the tagging, wasn't so much that I want a third category. I'm fine with the idea of selecting everything and having a delay of zero, just that after tagging, nothing seems to be done with the tags, so we maybe don't need them at all. Some suggested PMing a moderator about it, so thanks for that.

To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I think it would be nice if people who no longer vaccinated stayed away.

There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

If, as prosciencemum has stated, vaccines are safe for 99.9999%, then why so much effort to prevent anyone whose child has reacted from saying so? Why would MDC create a forum where reactions are not permitted to be mentioned, and independent (non-industry-funded/directed/interpreted/marketed) science questioning vaccine safety/efficacy is not permitted to be mentioned? Isn't that like creating a forum for smoker support in a community where more and more people are suffering from tobacco-induced illness?

And don't dare to mention that there is any similarity to past historical events where censorship and government-encouraged divisiveness occurred. You can't even do that on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum without being threatened with banning.

There's something very wrong with this whole picture.

[Rrrrrachel]

I am in no way trying to censor anyone.

[glassesgirlnj]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

You know that the word "censorship" does not apply to a privately-owned website not run by the government, right? (Sorry, just needed to pull out some journ school geekery for a second...)
 

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

I'm not sure they do think that's acceptable.  Parents can read lots of those types of posts in I'm Not Vaccinating; Vaccine Discussion & Debate; Vaccination Research for Beginners, et al, et al. Or, if you're a member of a particular due date club, you can post that info there... Or, members and non-members alike can find those posts on Google.  (MDC actually has GREAT SEO, and a lot of the posters here first came across the site when Googling a parenting-related topic. That's true for me, at least.) 

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

If, as prosciencemum has stated, vaccines are safe for 99.9999%, then why so much effort to prevent anyone whose child has reacted from saying so? Why would MDC create a forum where reactions are not permitted to be mentioned, and independent (non-industry-funded/directed/interpreted/marketed) science questioning vaccine safety/efficacy is not permitted to be mentioned? Isn't that like creating a forum for smoker support in a community where more and more people are suffering from tobacco-induced illness?

And don't dare to mention that there is any similarity to past historical events where censorship and government-encouraged divisiveness occurred. You can't even do that on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum without being threatened with banning.

There's something very wrong with this whole picture.

Ok Taxi, if this is what you want for the Mindful Vaccination forum would you have a problem with moms posting about complications their kids had when they contracted VPD's in the I'm not Vaxing forum? What about hospital birthing moms posting concerns in the UC forum?

Since there is ample opportunity in the Vaccine Discussion and Debate and Researching the Decision to ask questions about adverse reactions and other issues I see nothing wrong with a support only forum where moms who choose to vaccinate in one capacity or another can have to ask questions and share experiences with those who share the same opinions on vaccinating.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 


To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there.

I don't think they want all viewpoints.  

Posters need to conform to the guidelines, but all people who can conform in their post to the guidelines should be able to play.  All people are welcome, but not all viewpoints.  I am not only my viewpoint - I can answer a basic question on the vaccine schedule without giving my viewpoint.  If you feel someone has stepped over a line, flag it. 

I feel for the sel/del posters among us - it should not come down to "rah-rah vaccines - yeah!" or non-vax for all people.  Maybe posters have felt they need to come across as "rah-rah" to counterbalance the other sides message?  Maybe it is because this is a deliberate choice to try and make those who realIy do give all vaccinate on time feel comfortable? I just do not know.  I do know several sel/delayed have said they do not feel comfortable here and that could be an issue for them in getting the support they need in figuring out the best vaccine choice for their family. 

As per the bolded - the tone on discussion and debate can get nasty.  Some people do not want to wade through it - hence they do not post in discussion and debate.  With the exception of some newbies who really do get lost, most people know that if they choose a subforum over the debate forum, they know the discussion may be more limited, and they accept it so they do not have to wade through nastiness.

To me the question (and it is not mine to answer) is do you want a forum that is "every child on time" or a forum that is tolerant to both those who vaccinate on time, and those who are sel/delayed?  Is trying to convert someone in this subforum to "on time" or "sel/delayed" acceptable - or should respect for their current beliefs be upheld? If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?

I am going to bow out of this conversation for now, as I think I have said everything I wanted to say.   I will sub though, as it is interesting 

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 


To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there.

I can listen to the viewpoints--even alternate viewpoints--in a support forum.  I know it can be something of a fine line between that and debate, but I do appreciate the difference between informing someone of a different line of thinking and the intention of convincing them.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

  Is trying to convert someone in this subforum to "on time" or "sel/delayed" acceptable - or should respect for their current beliefs be upheld? If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?

Since I am an unschooler who frequents the Learning At Home forum, I do pay attention to questions about academics for the preschool set and curriculums, neither of which I approve of as a general concept.  Often I choose not to post, but now and then, depending on how the question was worded I might offer my perspective, especially if I feel like the OP might not have considered a different line of thinking.  I present, then bow out unless the OP shows particular enthusiasm for hearing my experiences and thoughts.  And, just in case, I often state my biases clearly and make a point to classify them as such, not as the God-given truth..

Phrases like "this study suggests...." can be helpful.  If a poster is unsure, simply stating that fact can help smooth what might be perceived as an argumentative tone.  Or....asking!  And if there is resistance to an idea, back off, assuming that they don't want further information in that line.

[serenbat]

Quote:

 do you want a forum that is "every child on time"

I think this would end all of it!

simple, to the point and only one topic, easy to stick to, know what you are getting and only for this need-win win all around-IMO 

I would like to see this- please, PLEASE!!

[Rrrrrachel]

I think trying to convert someone period is inappropriate on a support only forum. That's kind of 101.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I think this would end all of it!

simple, to the point and only one topic, easy to stick to, know what you are getting and only for this need-win win all around-IMO 

I would like to see this- please, PLEASE!!

This.

Serenbat has really nailed it.  The "Mindful Vax" forum has become a forum for supporting all vaxes, all children, all the time.  Let's at least be honest about it.

A forum truly dedicated to the needs of those who selectively vaccinate, or delay vaccinations, or more often, who are weighing the options, would have room for discussion of both complications from disease, and complications from vaccination.  As soon as you kick out parents who DID vaccinate, only to observe severe reactions, you are limiting the forum to only those vaxxers who have never experienced problems.  That's ridiculous.   What's the point?  To cheer each other on?  To spread lies (like, "vaccines cause no problems 99.9999% of the time!")?  To mock and ridicule those who have vaccine reactions (The "My kid just had a shot!" celebration thread)?

What does "support" mean here?  What kind of "support" do people come here for?  Do people who conform to the recommended vaccine schedule need SUPPORT, when those who don't conform themselves are being fired from jobs, and if their children's vaccines are delayed, they are threatened with having their children barred from school or daycare, or even with having their children taken away?

The Vaccination Discussion and Debate has become something of a war zone.  Post that your children suffered vaccine reactions, and you will be attacked by the official MDC vaccination committee, who will tell you that you imagined it, or that the reaction wasn't as serious/common/linked with the vaccines as you believe.  Post a mainstream scientific study that supports your belief, and the MDC vaccination committee will do their best to tear it, and the researchers who wrote it, to shreds. Post anything non-mainstream, and prepare to be mocked for posting anything not peer-reviewed by mainstream science. Post links to the fact that courts in both the US and Italy admitted and compensated children for vaccine-induced autism, and the MDC vaccination committee will insist that courts of law have nothing to do with science.

In short, there's no point posting anything on the Discussion and Debate forum, unless you have oodles of time to fight, and the energy to fight people who insist that your own experiences are invalid.

How many mothers of preschool children have the time to look up and post studies and arguments several times a day?  Especially those who work outside the home?  Heck, my kids are all in school, and I don't have time to research and post more than a couple of things.

[TCMoulton]

It looks like the only that fights are started here is when those who have chosen to never vax again come to stir up trouble in certain threads.
I have seen quite a few posts where moms were encouraged to wait until their mind was made up, space vaccines apart, take a more delayed schedule, and refuse certain vaccinations when it is appropriate to the situation.
The post about celebrating has been taken totally out of context. I was under the impression that we were discussing how moms would maybe give their child a treat (my mom always stopped for ice cream) after a child endured an unpleasant experience, in a sense celebrating their bravery. Certainly not celebrating how much better we must be as moms because our kids have another vaccines under their belt (which has been suggested here).
If this same thread was started in I'm Not Vaxing it would have cut short pretty quickly, not sure why this is even still going on to be honest.

[Rrrrrachel]

Taxi are you AGAIN insinuating that some posters aren't actual mothers?

[Rrrrrachel]

Never mind.

[kathymuggle]

nm - argumentative.  See, I can (sometimes) tell when I am rising to bait/being arguementative and back off (joke).

 

I still think this is a good question:

 

"To me the question (and it is not mine to answer) is do you want a forum that is "every child on time" or a forum that is tolerant to both those who vaccinate on time, and those who are sel/delayed?  If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?"