Australia bans flu vaccine - child in coma - Page 3

[Rrrrrachel]

I give up.

[chickabiddy]

Drugs enter the bloodstream and are distributed throughout the body. That’s not true for vaccines. Vaccines are typically injected into the arm, leg or buttocks. The vaccine then travels to nearby lymph nodes, which are collections of immune cells located throughout the body. Once in the lymph node, the vaccine enters a type of immune cell called an antigen-presenting cell. These cells present the vaccine to other cells of the immune system responsible for making antibodies (see "How do vaccines work?").

http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-15307-2/vaccines-and-your-child/excerpt

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by pek64 

There is no guarantee that they go through the lymph system. All living cells are fed by the capillary system, as already said.

Do you not understand how vaccines are designed to work, or do you not believe they work as they are designed to?  What sort of "guarantee" do you need?

Edited by chickabiddy - 2/14/13 at 5:03am

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by Jennyanydots 


Really? Injecting a substance into the body works the same as eating it? Great! I was going to have pizza for lunch, but now I have an idea... So cool!

So it's the method of administration which bothers you about vaccines - not the actual ingredients?

The amounts of these ingredients in the vaccines are so much smaller than in common foods and other environmental sources that I think it's a bit of a strawman to focus on the method not the contents, but that's my opinion.

Injecting your lunch would seem a daft way of having it (bit painful and time consuming), but I suppose you could take the nutrients from pizza and inject them to the same end result of eating the pizza. Might mess up your digestive system if you did it long term though... Although it must be hard to do in practice, because disabled children who cannot eat (like the child of a friend of mine) have stomach tubes through which "soup" like nutrients are inserted into the stomach. 

[pek64]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 


Do you not understand how vaccines are designed to work, or do you not believe they work as they are designed to?  What sort of "guarantee" do you need?

Why would the vaccine only go into the lymph system? If drugs were injected the same way vaccines are injected, would theu also go into the lymph system? And what if the needle end ends up in a small vein or artery? It's just not possible to say that 100% of the vaccine goes into the lymph system instead of the circulatory system. And there is no way to ensure that any of it goes into the lymph system.

My brother is a diabetic, and injects his insulin the subcutaneous way. Does his insulin end up in the lymph system? How does that help him regulate blood sugar?

[Rrrrrachel]

Sounds like you need to do some research on basic biology.

[chickabiddy]

http://www.immune.org.nz/category/tags/lymphatic-system

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Sounds like you need to do some research on basic biology.

Oh, do share what you know with the rest of us!

[chickabiddy]

Did the link I posted not cover the basics?

[Jennyanydots]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

So it's the method of administration which bothers you about vaccines - not the actual ingredients?

The amounts of these ingredients in the vaccines are so much smaller than in common foods and other environmental sources that I think it's a bit of a strawman to focus on the method not the contents, but that's my opinion.

Injecting your lunch would seem a daft way of having it (bit painful and time consuming), but I suppose you could take the nutrients from pizza and inject them to the same end result of eating the pizza. Might mess up your digestive system if you did it long term though... Although it must be hard to do in practice, because disabled children who cannot eat (like the child of a friend of mine) have stomach tubes through which "soup" like nutrients are inserted into the stomach. 

This post, and others that profess a lack of distinction between injection and ingestion of foreign substances, strikes me as either dangerously ignorant or, perhaps, downright malicious. Do you actually believe that, or is it an attempt to obfuscate by over simplifying, and offer a dumbed-down pat on the head to concerned parents? You believe that if something is edible, it can be injected into the flesh via needle, and the results will be the same. So it's "pro science" a la carte, is it then? Just pro the science you like?

[Rrrrrachel]

There are obviously differences between injestion and injection. I'm just not sure they're as large as they are made out to be. I have never, not once, been able to get someone who claims that the difference is crucial to explain to me what the actual biological difference is.

When a certain amount of aluminum (for example) is injested only some of it (say 1%) makes it to the blood stream. When that same amount is injected say 100% does. Due to the vastly different quantities of aluminum that a typical child injested vs gets from vaccines, the overwhelming majority of aluminum in their body is still from INJESTED aluminum. A vaccine doesn't even measurably raise the level of aluminum in the blood.

I would live for one of the people on this thread who claim the difference is so large to explain the difference to me.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Jennyanydots 

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

So it's the method of administration which bothers you about vaccines - not the actual ingredients?

The amounts of these ingredients in the vaccines are so much smaller than in common foods and other environmental sources that I think it's a bit of a strawman to focus on the method not the contents, but that's my opinion.

Injecting your lunch would seem a daft way of having it (bit painful and time consuming), but I suppose you could take the nutrients from pizza and inject them to the same end result of eating the pizza. Might mess up your digestive system if you did it long term though... Although it must be hard to do in practice, because disabled children who cannot eat (like the child of a friend of mine) have stomach tubes through which "soup" like nutrients are inserted into the stomach. 

This post, and others that profess a lack of distinction between injection and ingestion of foreign substances, strikes me as either dangerously ignorant or, perhaps, downright malicious. Do you actually believe that, or is it an attempt to obfuscate by over simplifying, and offer a dumbed-down pat on the head to concerned parents? You believe that if something is edible, it can be injected into the flesh via needle, and the results will be the same. So it's "pro science" a la carte, is it then? Just pro the science you like?

Boggles the mind doesn't it! It appears that PSM believes that pizza can be injected into a body and that nutrition can be derived from that process and that g-tubes are sort of like vaccines. 

[pek64]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

http://www.immune.org.nz/category/tags/lymphatic-system

Interesting, but doesn't answer my questions. Care to try again?

[Jennyanydots]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

There are obviously differences between injestion and injection. I'm just not sure they're as large as they are made out to be. I have never, not once, been able to get someone who claims that the difference is crucial to explain to me what the actual biological difference is.

When a certain amount of aluminum (for example) is injested only some of it (say 1%) makes it to the blood stream. When that same amount is injected say 100% does. Due to the vastly different quantities of aluminum that a typical child injested vs gets from vaccines, the overwhelming majority of aluminum in their body is still from INJESTED aluminum. A vaccine doesn't even measurably raise the level of aluminum in the blood.

I would live for one of the people on this thread who claim the difference is so large to explain the difference to me.

Surely you're capable of performing your own search.

[pek64]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18223011

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

There are obviously differences between injestion and injection. I'm just not sure they're as large as they are made out to be. I have never, not once, been able to get someone who claims that the difference is crucial to explain to me what the actual biological difference is.

When a certain amount of aluminum (for example) is injested only some of it (say 1%) makes it to the blood stream. When that same amount is injected say 100% does. Due to the vastly different quantities of aluminum that a typical child injested vs gets from vaccines, the overwhelming majority of aluminum in their body is still from INJESTED aluminum. A vaccine doesn't even measurably raise the level of aluminum in the blood.

I would live for one of the people on this thread who claim the difference is so large to explain the difference to me.

How can you know most aluminum is injested? Nothing you say here supports that claim.

[Rrrrrachel]

Jenny I have looked. The information I've found supports what I said above.

Pek it's fairly easy to find the amount of aluminum even very small children get from the environment and compare it to what they get from vaccines.

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by pek64 


Interesting, but doesn't answer my questions. Care to try again?

Not really.  I've provided several sites that clearly explain how the lymphatic system recognizes vaccines and acts on them (hint: insulin is recognized differently than vaccines, because it is different).  I'm confident that the information is out there.  If you choose to disregard, misinterpret, or cherry-pick, I don't care to argue about that.

ETA:  Although it makes me feel dirty to invoke him, even Mercola deals with the fact that vaccines are handled by the lymphatic system.  This is just basic, junior-high cell science.

Edited by chickabiddy - 2/16/13 at 6:21am

[BeckyBird]

Dr. Sears' review of aluminum in vaccines:

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/vaccine-faqs

[pek64]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

Not really.  I've provided several sites that clearly explain how the lymphatic system recognizes vaccines and acts on them (hint: insulin is recognized differently than vaccines, because it is different).  I'm confident that the information is out there.  If you choose to disregard, misinterpret, or cherry-pick, I don't care to argue about that.

ETA:  Although it makes me feel dirty to invoke him, even Mercola deals with the fact that vaccines are handled by the lymphatic system.  This is just basic, junior-high cell science.

And I provided a link that shows insulin, injected the same way as vaccines, goes into the bloodstream. Therefore, vaccines do as well.