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Do I say anything? - Page 2

post #21 of 49
4/22/04 at 11:21pm
I've got two kids who were adopted from China. The last thing children need when they are trying to adjust from about as major a life change as you can get is totally unnecessary and painful surgery. I can't imagine that it exactly helps the bonding process. :

As for the comment about the eye modification surgery, I think that's off base. The Chinese people I know IRL here are just as likely as the general population to have their sons circed, alas. I know many adoptive parents (mostly from EE) who have circed boys, but none that have had their children's eyelids altered. Whether we like it or not, most parents just assume that boys must be circed, and don't think beyond that. It is not about rejecting their ethnic identities. If they had adopted an intact child domestically, they would circ him as well.

Adoption agencies do not get involved in the medical care of children once they are adopted, as they should not. Obviously circ isn't needed for any medical reason, but that's still not how most people see it.
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post #22 of 49
4/23/04 at 6:42am
I think it is awesome you wrote her. Maybe she will see that she doesn't have to put her DS through such a horrendous ordeal. He deserves better than that. I have said this so many times, children can't always voice their opinions so we have to be their voices. Good job mama! It is great that you can tack on your own exoerience.
post #23 of 49
4/23/04 at 11:53am
I know it's too late but I'd probably reply to her email about praying for his circ with this:

"Oh my! I had no idea that "X" was sick and in need of a circumcision! Have you gotten a 2nd opinion yet? I know that it's very rare for a boy or man to actually NEED a circumcision and there are more conservative treatments for almost every problem that might occur! I have a lot of information on circumcision from when I did research before my son was born...here's a wonderful article by Dr. Fleiss to start you off. I hope you'll keep me posted!!"

I wish it wasn't even offered to parents by doctors as an option. It totally validates it.
post #24 of 49
4/23/04 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
She called me today. I'm calling her back in a bit. Wish me cyber luck!
post #25 of 49
4/23/04 at 4:35pm
Good luck to you and especially good luck to baby boy!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #26 of 49
4/23/04 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
Well, we talked. She said thanks for the info but that her adoption worker said that they should do it for identification purposes. So he won't feel different than the rest of the family. Apparently she left it up to her dh and he wants to do it. I'm so sad. I tried to talk her out of it. She said their older boy is done as well as the dh. Apparently they didn't take the decision lightly. She thanked me many times for the info. Argh. I feel like such a failure.
post #27 of 49
4/23/04 at 4:51pm
For "identification purposes" ?!?!?!

That pisses me off. Send her a video. Tell her how f'n stupid that is.

Grrr, I have NO tolerance for people lately.

You did the best you could. It's not your fault she's ....... never mind, I will be nice.
post #28 of 49
4/23/04 at 4:55pm
Grrr!!

I am majoring in social work -- maybe I can change some attitudes like this! (that is, if I get a job in adoption services)

Well, you have done all you could. It is too bad he will have to be put through this, but I can't think of anything else you could try. Maybe someone has an idea.
post #29 of 49
4/23/04 at 6:51pm
Well then... see!!! he needs his EYES "fixed"... not his PENIS!

IT"S RACISM!!! They are ERASING HIS CULTURE OFF HIS BODY.

(and just to be clear because twice in one day I have said "fixed"... I DO NOT REPEATE- DO NOT--- think that ANYTHING about ANY BEAUTIFUL child needs "FIXING" not their beautiful EYES... and not their tender still forming little baby sex organs EITHER!)

Those evil pukes... I think I have to vomit.
post #30 of 49
4/23/04 at 9:21pm
Quote:
her adoption worker said that they should do it for identification purposes. So he won't feel different than the rest of the family.
yeah i cant remember the last time my circ'd dh stood with our 3 uncirc'd booys and said 'WOW!! look we are different!'

sheesh that mentality never ceases to amaze me...i mean its not like they are going to stand around one day and compare penises!!
post #31 of 49
4/23/04 at 9:33pm
Oh man I am heart broken for him. How much more trauma does this little guy need.
post #32 of 49
4/23/04 at 9:39pm
Thread Starter 
I can't stop thinking about it. Do men really compare their penises? :
post #33 of 49
4/23/04 at 9:49pm
mmm... Something tells me that this son will KNOW he's not biologically related to his family, duh. Seems to me like she wants it done to "fit in" with her family's choices, to make it more acceptable to her North American-ized family. Who knows really? What are the circ rates in China??

I think it's sad, you think it's sad, most people who will read this thread are PO'd that circ even is suggested to parents... BUT in the end it's up to her. I mentioned how cute the latest cloth dipes are to my sis & her husband about 2 months ago & they are upset about it with me still!! She actually said "Well, WE plan on using disposables & I hope you don't judge us for doing so!" Very snottily... & honestly I had only mentioned the cloth thing as a passing comment b'c sis is the type to want EVERYthing to be the best for her babe - like all mama's, I thought it was truly a helpful comment... WRONG!

Shocking, but it seems that most people DO NOT enjoy feeling like they need to know something they don't already... especially about their own kids. What a silly waste of time, but it's true. Many people I associate with are sooo open & want to gather new info everyday from us friends or wherever. But then, after mentioing the supercool cloth dipe info to my not-so-open sis, I was awakened to the fact that sometimes, to save the relationship, you just have to bow out of parenting decisions.

Weird, but many people are very offended & take advice or knowledgable suggestions as a personal attack on their own ego or intelligence.

ugh... I don't know, hopefully your friend come around. Hang in there for future visits... & DO NOT offer to change a dipe for her! hehe. You may get PO'd all over again. My sis just sent me an email today saying that thier fourth (!) ultrasound - her 20 week checkup, found that she's carrying a BOY! Yea! But I also began to cry for him already. I KNOW what lies ahead for his first few days of existence. wah

*wow, what a loong post, sorry*
post #34 of 49
4/23/04 at 9:51pm
I'm not a guy but I do play one on TV :LOL JK (I'm trying to make myself laugh so I'll quit crying about this poor baby.)
Anyway, I know my dh and his friends do NOT compare penises. I mean do women compare vulvas, none I know. I realy hate the must look the same excuse.
post #35 of 49
4/27/04 at 11:19am
Well, yeah, The "Look alike" is a last ditch effort to find safe haven. They think it's something you can't argue with. WRONG!!!!!! It doesn't slow me down one bit!




Frank
post #36 of 49
4/27/04 at 12:40pm
Send her to this thread.
post #37 of 49
4/27/04 at 12:46pm
My husband was adopted from Korea when he was 3.5 and his parents left him intact even though they had circ'd their biological son. They felt it was important to leave his body the way it was to preserve a tie to his birth culture.
post #38 of 49
4/27/04 at 2:01pm
"What are the circ rates in China??"

Not what they are in the US. Hubby is Asian and lived in China for a part of his life, and they just don't do it to their boys (especially if they still practice traditional religion).

I think it's horribly sad to erase his culture like that. And I fully agree with comparing it to changing the eye fold, only it's something private, something only the child should be involved with.

As for identification purposes...my hubby is intact but his brother isn't (something strange happened when he was older, haven't gotten a clear picture on it yet), yet they still know they are of the same family. R is half korean and doesn't look just like his mom OR dad yet still knows who his family is.

People who are adopting make such a big deal (because it should be) of continuing the child's birth culture into the future...they could have started now. If the child ever wants to return "home", say to find a wife, he's going to be in for a rude awakening because of what has been done to him.
post #39 of 49
5/4/04 at 4:38am
<<And adoption agencies tolerate that kind of stuff?>>

Less and less, fortunately. . . and unfortunately, too!
We have three children in our extended family who were 'international adoptions' and their parents are required to send back photographs and medical records for two (or three?) years after the adoption is finalized.

It is also getting harder to adopt--for example at least one of the parents in each of these families is of the same culture as the adopted child. Many countries are tightening their requirements for international adoptions precisely because people are doing this kind of thing.

Circumcising an intact child, changing an older child's name from something ethnic to 'Chad' or 'Heather', refusing to properly care for a child's ethnic hair, etc. are all indicators that there are some other deep, unresolved issues that are going to create serious long-term problems for that child in that particular family.
post #40 of 49
5/4/04 at 4:49am
It makes me sad, too. You said what is in your heart though. Maybe you planted a seed for future children to reap the benefits.
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