EC Grad Regression - First at his caregivers, now at home. How to deal with it? Need help please!

[nstewart]

DS was an EC grad at 19 months for daytime, and by 23 months over night.  He's now 30 mos old.

The last few weeks (maybe month??) we've been having episodes where he wets himself, and it's getting worse.

At first it was just at his new dayhome.  He started attending at the beginning of December and the issue started after Christmas (and 3 weeks home with mom and dad).  He is/was occasoinally wetting himself during the day or during nap time.  Not every day.  But it seems to be becoming more frequent the past 2 weeks.  He wet himself during his nap both yesterday and today.  His care provider thinks he is doing it when he's awake, but in bed.  Other days he is great and takes himself to pee  many, many times per day with no issues.  He has also started wetting his pants at home (he did it twice tonight!)

This is really unheard of for him.  He was an almost grad well before 19 months, and we very, very rarely had accidents after that.

I recognize it's a phase and it will pass if we do nothing but remind him to use the potty.  If I were home with him it would be less concerning because I could deal with changing his clothes and bedding etc.  But I do feel for our caregiver, who wants to put him in pull-ups for naps and who is finding the wetting just randomly otherwise stressful.  Even though she put a plastic sheet down on the bed she still had to change his clothes, give him a bath, etc. after his nap because while the bed didn't get soaked, she did.  She has 4 other kids to take care of in addition to my DS.

I don't know if he is just busy and forgets, if he's testing us and her, if he is trying out "peeing in his pants" since he didn't go through conventional potty training...I just don't know.

So I am looking for advice on how to handle this.  I don't really want to put him in diapers for naps or otherwise.  Should I use some conventional potty training ideas?  Rewards?  I don't love the idea of rewards but at the same time need to just get him out of this phase quickly.  It's very confusing.

Some ideas that DH and I have so far:

- get out his trainers for nap time rather than a diaper

- make sure it becomes part of his routine to pee right before naps

- explain EC to his caregiver and ask her to take him to the potty if she notices he hasn't gone in x amount of time

I am not sure about:

- a sticker chart for rewards on days he is dry all day at dayhome

- talking about using the potty because he's a big boy and we don't pee in our pants (I wouldn't say it in a shaming way, but don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it needs to be if that could prolong things)

- other conventional potty training ideas (I don't even know what these are...and they seem pointless when he knows darn well how to use the potty and when he has to go....)

Thank-you for reading my novel and help, please!! 

[Carlyle]

This too shall pass (as I tell myself regularly, and it looks like you are too!).  It sounds like there's a lot of change going on for him with a new daycare and a baby on the way.  I'm guessing he's just reacting to that.  The only real suggestion I have is to stay calm (so hard), and maybe get a few books out of the library about potty training to make it fun and interesting again.  Good luck!

Also, I've been talking up how much it interrupts her play when she has a miss.  Something to the effect of "oops, you peed on the floor, let's clean it up, and find something clean to put on.  Gosh that takes so much more time than just using the potty doesn't it.  That's okay, you can try again next time."  Then when she does use the potty I say things like "that's so great!  Now you can just get right back to playing, no mess to clean up.  That's so much easier isn't it!"  I have her help with the cleanup (to make it clear that this is her mess, and her responsibility to clean it up (she's 2 years and 3 months, so old enough to be helping on this level).  Even if she won't help, she doesn't get to continue playing until it's clean.  "oops, you forgot that we have a mess to clean up, would you like me to get you a towel?  Shall we do it together?"  Not sure if this would have worked with my oldest because she's much more strong willed and it might have been a power struggle (which is not worth it over this)...but if yours is a powerhouse too you can maybe make it--you have to come with me while I get this clean, which still makes it so that he doesn't just to pee and keep playing.

One other thought...  Does he mind wearing diapers?  Like, if you do cloth, and they are bulky, do they annoy him?  This is how it is with my dd.  So I have in the past (when I was *done* with messes) had the rule that if she missed once, the diaper went back on and stayed on until she used the potty again.   Sort of a 1 strike and your out kind of thing.  If he doesn't like the diapers (i.e. he won't just get so comfy using them that he starts to prefer it...) then this could be an option at daycare--you don't have to wear diapers if you use the potty, but if you forget, then you need to wear a diaper the rest of the day.  Just to keep them sane!  Not as a "punishment" but more of a natural consequence--they can't reasonably be expected to clean up multiple messes a day.  I would stress to them that it is not a shaming/punishing thing though.  Just an "oops, you peed on the floor.  Let's get it cleaned up and get you in a diaper. You can try to go diaper free again tomorrow.  Remember that if you do need to go and you tell me, I'll help you get the diaper off."

Edited by Carlyle - 2/13/13 at 4:10am

[Carlyle]

Also, just a note to consider any other changes that he may be responding to.  Are you sure the new dayhome is a safe, caring place?  Is he starting to pick up and worry about the new baby coming (have you given him space to discuss concerns he might have about this)?  Any dietary changes recently?  Other family things he might be reacting to?  Teeth coming in (those 2 year molars are a b*tch--this is actually my guess about what's happening)??  If any of these things are the root of the regression, you'll have much more luck dealing directly with them than changing anything about your potty routine!

[Carlyle]

One other thought.  My older dd was FASCINATED with watching the other kids at her daycare get their diapers changed.  Like absorbed with it.  And I wonder if your little guy is watching all of these other kids "get away with" peeing in their pants and is curious about why they are using diapers and he's not.  Are they all around his age?  All conventionally diapered?  Does he spend time around other kids his age (or slightly older) who also use the potty so that he can see that most kids do?  You might open up this topic of discussion with him...

[nstewart]

Thanks for all of the suggestions Carlyle.

Yes, I agree, this too shall pass.  As I said, if I were home with him I really wouldn't be concerned.  Our caregiver is starting to get a bit frustrated and I don't want him to be more stressed at her home because he's being scolded for going in his pants.  I feel like that will make it worse.

Yes, there has been a lot of change lately (nanny leaving, starting new dayhome, baby on the way...) and so I do think that is part of it. I think he's safe at dayhome, not sure about happy.  He still misses his nanny, and I know would rather be home than at dayhome.  His caregiver is very calm, very even tempered, but firm with some behaviours intended to create structure and keep kids safe (no standing on the chair at the table, we take our shoes off at the door when we come in, kind of thing).  She's not a cuddly, get down on the floor and play kind of lady.  That's what he's used to, both from his nanny and from DH and I. Not much I can do about that, unfortunetly, as at least her home is safe and clean which is more than I can say from some of the others I looked at when trying to find child care.  I will work on talking to him about these things and giving him a chance to express how he feels.  That is a very good suggestion.

I don't think it's dietary, but wouldn't rule it out.  He has some mild food sensitivities but I send him with alternatives for dayhome.  We're pretty good at home but not perfect about keeping away from the foods he shouldn't have.  And the sensitivities are very mild according to the blood work he had done.  He's not teething, he's had his two year molars for a long while (he was a very early teether). 

I also explained EC to our caregiver this morning, explained that maybe he was "trying it out" since he was never really in diapers.  There was one infant at the dayhome until recently who was in diapers, and now there is one boy DSs age who sometimes wears pull-ups.  She doesn't think that's it, but I think he might just be trying it out.  I really don't think it's an "accident" based on what I've seen at home and what she's telling me.  I think he's doing it on purpose.

So today I sent him with trainers to put on for nap time, at least that will make clean up easier if he does go in his pants during his nap.  Also, DS really remembers and gets excited about upcoming events, so (as much as I do not like "rewards") I am going to try the sticker thing.  I think it will be effective for him because for him, the sticker at the end of the day and surprise at the end of the week will be more exciting/interesting than exploring this "go in the pants" thing.  I hope that's not a mistake. 

I'll also keep your idea of "natural consequences" in mind re: the diapers.  My fear is that he might think those are a novelty too, since we had him in trainers except for at night time since he was 7 months old.  I'd have to pick up some big, bulk, prefolds so that he really doesn't want to wear them! lol.

Thanks so much again!

[flyrabbitfly]

If you've seen me on these boards, you probably know I am the "autonomy lady". Maybe I should change my screen name to that-lol.

I believe that at this age, the struggle to achieve autonomy is THE great focus of our toddler's experience.

With the fairly earth-shattering change he is living through, with out any input of his, without any choice in the matter, his nanny is gone and he has to go this place, where, for his and others safety, there are lots of "Don'ts. His world is out of control. It is completely unsurprising to see that he is exercising his ability to choose where to pee, for himself. He may be saying quietly, "my body, my choice."

He may be needing to have his need for autonomy supported in other, totally un-potty related areas, so that he doesn't need to resort to this level to find control over something.

Try power games- pretend to be mortified in a really exaggerated way by something he has done, preferably something he has done to test a limit. The game is that you are ok with him crossing some line (hopefully it is one that is kind of arbitrary - for us we use throwing stuffed animals into the bathroom. I think it's gross, but I can get over it). There are so many little things that we say, "don't to this" that aren't really THAT important in the great scheme of things. Once he realizes you're on his side on this one, he's going to do it over and over and over and the more you both let it be fun, the more he will get out of it. Let him choose when it's over. It can take a long time! Maybe the more he's been missing out on autonomy, the longer it can take. Let it take a long time, as long as he wants. As long as he needs.

Give him some choices to make for himself. As many as you can. Let him choose what to put in his lunch box (even if you don't agree completely- if they are healthy choices he can't go too wrong, right?), or what to have for breakfast, or when he gets home it is "His time" and everyone plays his choice or whatever for an hour. Or what clothes he will wear. Something. You have to be willing to let go of some things to allow him to start to have control over himself. Give him a choice and let is be his and don't try to take it back. Let him decide every day to wear stripes and plaid, even if you cringe when trendy moms look sideways. Let him start to be in charge of himself in some way. That may be all he is trying to do.

I think if you don't offer and support this completely basic human need, all the other stuff you might do to encourage potty/discourage misses is just going to further strengthen his resolve to take charge of THIS ONE THING. Afterall- he and only he can decide where to potty. It IS his choice. If no other way of excercising autonomy is jumping out at him, he's going to have to stick with the one he knows. If his autonomy is supported in other areas, he will naturally he will want to potty the way we all do. And that is totally fair game to remind him that this is what we do. "I don't pee in my pants. Its my job to keep my undies dry, just like daddy keeps his undies dry and (insert older child's name here) keeps her undies dry. But this will only work if he has something else he can rely on to be in control of.

Lastly, I guess I would just say if you have not already validated his sense of loss for his nanny, and his fears and discomforts of change, etc. that that would be something to do. He might just be really full of his emotions and needing you to make it ok for him to express his feelings about the changes that have happened.

[nstewart]

Originally Posted by flyrabbitfly 

If you've seen me on these boards, you probably know I am the "autonomy lady". Maybe I should change my screen name to that-lol.

I believe that at this age, the struggle to achieve autonomy is THE great focus of our toddler's experience.

With the fairly earth-shattering change he is living through, with out any input of his, without any choice in the matter, his nanny is gone and he has to go this place, where, for his and others safety, there are lots of "Don'ts. His world is out of control. It is completely unsurprising to see that he is exercising his ability to choose where to pee, for himself. He may be saying quietly, "my body, my choice."

He may be needing to have his need for autonomy supported in other, totally un-potty related areas, so that he doesn't need to resort to this level to find control over something.

Try power games- pretend to be mortified in a really exaggerated way by something he has done, preferably something he has done to test a limit. The game is that you are ok with him crossing some line (hopefully it is one that is kind of arbitrary - for us we use throwing stuffed animals into the bathroom. I think it's gross, but I can get over it). There are so many little things that we say, "don't to this" that aren't really THAT important in the great scheme of things. Once he realizes you're on his side on this one, he's going to do it over and over and over and the more you both let it be fun, the more he will get out of it. Let him choose when it's over. It can take a long time! Maybe the more he's been missing out on autonomy, the longer it can take. Let it take a long time, as long as he wants. As long as he needs.

Give him some choices to make for himself. As many as you can. Let him choose what to put in his lunch box (even if you don't agree completely- if they are healthy choices he can't go too wrong, right?), or what to have for breakfast, or when he gets home it is "His time" and everyone plays his choice or whatever for an hour. Or what clothes he will wear. Something. You have to be willing to let go of some things to allow him to start to have control over himself. Give him a choice and let is be his and don't try to take it back. Let him decide every day to wear stripes and plaid, even if you cringe when trendy moms look sideways. Let him start to be in charge of himself in some way. That may be all he is trying to do.

I think if you don't offer and support this completely basic human need, all the other stuff you might do to encourage potty/discourage misses is just going to further strengthen his resolve to take charge of THIS ONE THING. Afterall- he and only he can decide where to potty. It IS his choice. If no other way of excercising autonomy is jumping out at him, he's going to have to stick with the one he knows. If his autonomy is supported in other areas, he will naturally he will want to potty the way we all do. And that is totally fair game to remind him that this is what we do. "I don't pee in my pants. Its my job to keep my undies dry, just like daddy keeps his undies dry and (insert older child's name here) keeps her undies dry. But this will only work if he has something else he can rely on to be in control of.

Lastly, I guess I would just say if you have not already validated his sense of loss for his nanny, and his fears and discomforts of change, etc. that that would be something to do. He might just be really full of his emotions and needing you to make it ok for him to express his feelings about the changes that have happened.

Thanks for this. 

I think we are pretty good at respecting his autonomy in most areas.  We give him choices about breakfast pretty well daily (either "what would  you like?" or "Would you like toast, cereal, or yogurt?), in clothing (provided it's warm enough he can wear what he wants most days), in play at home, what book to read before bed, etc. etc. and I do try to ask myself if something really matters before saying "no".  The autonomy factor is part of why we did EC in the first place.  So, if these things aren't enough then I need to look for more ways to give him autonomy and maybe link it more directly to dayhome, since that's where the issue is.

WRT validating his sense of loss, the changes on the way...maybe you guys can give me some insight on just how to do this with a 30 month old?  We do talk about Linda, we've skyped with her a few times.  We talk about the baby coming, and being a big brother.  I've validated his feelings about not wanting to go to dayhome, and missing mommy.  But I don't know how to talk about "feelings" with a 30 month old boy.  I don't think he "gets" it yet.  Like if I ask him "what is wrong?" if he's upset or "why not?" if he says he doesn't want to do something, he can't answer me.  I can say, "do you miss mommy" or "are you sad" or "are you frustrated" and he might say "yes" or "no", but I don't want to put words in his mouth, kwim (suggestability is big with him, he will often/sometimes say "yes" to something that is not true just because it's been suggested or possibly he doesn't understand).  Since he's my first, maybe you can give me some insight into how to do this better?

[flyrabbitfly]

Originally Posted by nstewart 

Thanks for this. 

I think we are pretty good at respecting his autonomy in most areas.  We give him choices about breakfast pretty well daily (either "what would  you like?" or "Would you like toast, cereal, or yogurt?), in clothing (provided it's warm enough he can wear what he wants most days), in play at home, what book to read before bed, etc. etc. and I do try to ask myself if something really matters before saying "no".  The autonomy factor is part of why we did EC in the first place.  So, if these things aren't enough then I need to look for more ways to give him autonomy and maybe link it more directly to dayhome, since that's where the issue is.

WRT validating his sense of loss, the changes on the way...maybe you guys can give me some insight on just how to do this with a 30 month old?  We do talk about Linda, we've skyped with her a few times.  We talk about the baby coming, and being a big brother.  I've validated his feelings about not wanting to go to dayhome, and missing mommy.  But I don't know how to talk about "feelings" with a 30 month old boy.  I don't think he "gets" it yet.  Like if I ask him "what is wrong?" if he's upset or "why not?" if he says he doesn't want to do something, he can't answer me.  I can say, "do you miss mommy" or "are you sad" or "are you frustrated" and he might say "yes" or "no", but I don't want to put words in his mouth, kwim (suggestability is big with him, he will often/sometimes say "yes" to something that is not true just because it's been suggested or possibly he doesn't understand).  Since he's my first, maybe you can give me some insight into how to do this better?

So with respect to autonomy it sounds like prior to these events he was getting all the autonomy ops he needed. And everything was going so well. But in this situation where his world is changing in big ways he can't control, he may be feeling he has no control, or not enough control of himself. A few times playing power games at home may be all he needs to reset his balance.  Maybe you can ask the dayhome lady to offer him a choice about apple or banana for a snack or where to take a nap or something there, but you can probably do more for him at home. 

As far as validating feelings with a 30 month old- it is totally possible and indeed wise to begin discussing feelings with a 30 mo old. No, you can't ask a 30 mo old what's wrong and expect him to be able to answer. And yes, toddlers will often agree to agree, but that doesn't mean talking about his feelings isn't helping them learn to name their emotions. Although you don't want to put words in his mouth, it is often pretty darn easy to know what a toddler is feeling. You know the names for frustration, disappointment, sad, angry, happy, afraid, but he doesn't necessarily know how these words apply to his own emotions until you help him connect them. In general, whenever you see him feeling strong emotions, start out by naming them. He gets frustrated with something he can't do and you might say, "You look like your feeling frusrated, or angry." If he is disappointed he can't have something, and his face falls, "That's disappointing for you isn't it?" or even simpler, "You're feeling sad now, huh?" He happily shows you something he did, "Did you have fun making that? You look happy/proud/etc". Some kids have tantrums when they can't express their emotions, or when they don't feel their emotions are understood. My son likes to throw whatever it is that is frustrating him. We've been talking for a while about feelings (he's 32 mo old) and sometimes he says, "I'M ANGRY!!!" as he throws it, or sometimes he just shouts the feeling, without needing to take the action. Obviously my goal is not to throw stuff when we're angry, and he is learning that. I acknowledge whatever he said or did. Then I usually offer another form of release, like, "want to have a pillow fight now?" or if he was feeling sad, a hug, etc. Being able to express our emotions and know that they are understood by someone can help us just move past them without them escalating into meltdown or peeing in our pants.

So if you assume that your little guy has been feeling sad about losing Linda, and probably hasn't had the opportunity to express his feelings about it, you can bring it up with him. "Have you been feeling sad about not seeing Linda anymore? It's hard to not see people we love, isn't it? Did you like spending a lot of time with her? You wish you could see her again, huh? That's a bummer." If he starts to cry, that is a good thing, to release emotions. Hugs. "You're feeling sad. Do you want a hug?" Validating emotions is just about agreeing that his emotions are there, and that they are ok to feel. It doesn't mean trying to change anything or make it better. Just acknowledging that it sucks and that you understand.

Then there is the fear of the unknown. "Are you afraid things will be different when the baby comes? It's always hard when things change." No need to say, no it won't be different. It will be different. That's hard. You understand. While in some conversations it is important to say, "Mama will still love you just as much when the baby comes," this conversation isn't about reassuring or taking away the difficulty. Just an acknowledgement of his feelings. They're ok, they're normal, you can tell me about them and I won't try to make them less or make it better, but I'll understand.