Help me understand vaccine dosage

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I want to understand why the dosage for many vaccines doesn't vary based on a person's weight and age. I'd love to hear your thoughts and share resources. Thanks! 

[prosciencemum]

Might help to cross post the previous discusion on Mindful Vaccination board so people can see where we already got to in the absence of our non-vaccinating friends.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1374348/dosage-question

[Rrrrrachel]

There is some information about it here.

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-schedule/vaccine-schedule-qa.html

It may not be as technical as you would like, but maybe it's at least a place to start. In the past when I have had questions about information on that sight I have used the "contact us" link to ask them and gotten a response.

[MichelleZB]

It's my understanding that (generally) the doses are the same because the dose is very small for everyone. You only need a few of those buggers injected in there to get your immune system going, which is kind of the point of vaccines. A very large, strong "dose" of the germs is the actual disease itself. All you get when vaccinated is a ghost. The same ghost for everyone.

[blhanson1]

I asked the nurse practitioner who was giving my daughter the shot this very question, and yes, a 40 year old man would recieve the exact same dose of vaccine at a 2 month old baby.  Seems so strange to me (and scary!), as most other 'injectables' and 'medicines' dosage are based upon the patient's weigh. 

[Rrrrrachel]

Those things also work very differently than vaccines.

[blhanson1]

I understand that there is differnt method of action, but I still find it concerning to inject a infant who is 1/8th the weight of a grown man with the exact same amout of vaccine...

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I started thinking about this because I got the adult pertussis/tetanus vaccine recently and it HURT!  That just kind of got me thinking about vaccines again and I guess in a different way. I wonder if we are talking about a "ghost" if we could inject 1/8 or 1/16 of the vaccines into our babies and have the vaccine work the same? I have a feeling it's not as simple as that. One thing I read said that infants immune systems are so immature that they "need" more of the vaccine to cause a sufficient reaction. 

I wonder if there are parents who choose to delay based on the fact that the dosage doesn't change (in many cases) until adulthood, if at all. 

[Asiago]

This is an interesting question. In veterinary medicine the incidence of adverse reaction decreases as the body weight increases, therefore the lower the BW, the higher the incidence of adverse reaction.

Also multiple vaccinations increase the risk for adverse reactions.

Quote:

Results

—4,678 adverse events (38.2/10,000 dogs

vaccinated) were associated with administration of

3,439,576 doses of vaccine to 1,226,159 dogs. The

VAAE rate decreased significantly as body weight

increased. Risk was 27% to 38% greater for neutered

versus sexually intact dogs and 35% to 64% greater

for dogs approximately 1 to 3 years old versus 2 to 9

months old. The risk of a VAAE significantly increased

as the number of vaccine doses administered per

office visit increased; each additional vaccine significantly

increased risk of an adverse event by 27% in

dogs

Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association

http://powershotsmn.com/downloads/DogAdverseVaccineReactionsJAVMA05.pdf

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Asiago 

This is an interesting question. In veterinary medicine the incidence of adverse reaction decreases as the body weight increases, therefore the lower the BW, the higher the incidence of adverse reaction.

Also multiple vaccinations increase the risk for adverse reactions.

Quote:

This yet - check out what is happening to this vet in my town. 

http://www.examiner.com/article/connecticut-veterinarian-calls-on-pet-owners-to-not-over-vaccinate-their-pets

[prosciencemum]

Seems like this is a question going round the internet right now. The "Refutatins to Anti-Vaccine Memes" Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM) even made a couple of images with their answer to it.

[Taximom5]

Those refutations listed by prosciencemum are the pharmaceutical industry's attempts to dismiss the real problem of medical damage from the other ingredients in vaccines, such as adjuvants and preservatives.  Those ingredients ARE shown to have increased adverse effects with higher dosages.

we should exercise caution and skepticism when confronted with marketing attempts disguised as "education." That's how propaganda works....

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm so glad to see people acknowledging that the negative effects of various ingredients in vaccines are dose dependent! Now if we can just acknowledge that the minuscule amounts in vaccines have never been shown to be harmful, regardless of weight. Seems like a natural extension . . .

[MichelleZB]

Right, so basically they're saying that the dose is already as small as it can be to work consistently, and it doesn't need to be bigger for a big person.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm so glad to see people acknowledging that the negative effects of various ingredients in vaccines are dose dependent! Now if we can just acknowledge that the minuscule amounts in vaccines have never been shown to be harmful, regardless of weight. Seems like a natural extension . . .

Ah, but what you call "the miniscule amount of various ingredients in vaccines" HAVE been shown to be harmful to some people.  These "miniscule amounts" have caused autoimmune disorders, seizures, brain damage, and even death.

Why would you want people to "acknowledge that the miniscule amounts in vaccines have never been shown to be harmful" when that clearly isn't true?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by MichelleZB 

Right, so basically they're saying that the dose is already as small as it can be to work consistently, and it doesn't need to be bigger for a big person.

Right, so basically you're saying that the dose is as small as it can be to work consistently, and it doesn't matter to you that that same dose can cause severe, even fatal reactions in subgroups--and that one of these subgroups is premature/underweight infants?

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Ah, but what you call "the miniscule amount of various ingredients in vaccines" HAVE been shown to be harmful to some people.  These "miniscule amounts" have caused autoimmune disorders, seizures, brain damage, and even death.

Why would you want people to "acknowledge that the miniscule amounts in vaccines have never been shown to be harmful" when that clearly isn't true?

How exactly do you know which ingredient is causing the reaction?