How do you 'expect' kids to do something, or 'not give them a choice'? - Page 3

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by starling&diesel 

 When they're still young, I remove them, and by the time they're old enough (time will tell if this pans out with her brother) they come, knowing that there is no other option.

....

Pick your hills

I don't like the phrase "Choose your battles," but I get it.  Like choosing the proverbial "hill to die on," and so on.

I don't care what my kids wear.  I don't care if they have a jacket on in the cold.  I don't care if they get dirty.  I don't care if they don't want to learn to climb the jungle gym.  I don't care if they want to ride their bike or walk.  I don't care if they want to fill their backpack with blocks and carry it around for the day.  I don't care if they want their sandwich cut in strips or squares.

I do care about a few choice things;  they are not permitted to do anything harmful to themselves or others, or anything that is simply unkind. 

Yes to both of these. In the toddler/preschool years, just making things happen laid the ground work for obedience as they got older and bigger.

There are very few things that I really care about. My kids have always had tons and tons of freedom. They've gone out to eat in dress up clothes (as in princess dress, wellington boots, umbrella with frogs on it, and baseball cap, because you can never have too many accessories). They have free range of the food in our house (which is all stuff that I'm fine with them eating.

The things that are a big deal to me are nonnegotiable, and they know it. Keeping the list very short helps a lot. For me, part of successful GD was keeping the list short. For a while, it seemed that our only rules were:

1. Teeth must be properly brushed at bedtime.

2. Always wear a seat belt.

3, Don't make your sister cry. Although this negatively stated, it worked for them.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

3, Don't make your sister cry. Although this negatively stated, it worked for them.

Sorry if this is OT a bit, but this is a big deal for me.  Sometimes, wording things with a negative actually provides more freedom than wording it in the positive.  Example:  "Walk on the sidewalk", while informative, is more restrictive than stating "Don't walk in the street."  My point is that sticking with positively worded statements isn't necessarily better.

[lilitchka]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

Sorry if this is OT a bit, but this is a big deal for me.  Sometimes, wording things with a negative actually provides more freedom than wording it in the positive.  Example:  "Walk on the sidewalk", while informative, is more restrictive than stating "Don't walk in the street."  My point is that sticking with positively worded statements isn't necessarily better.

maybe it depends on the age.

because too much choice for a 2 or 3 y.e. can create anxiety.

telling them: don<t walk on the street means they have to figure out themselves where they can walk.

I find restricting helps at that age. especially when I realize I said negative stuff non stop for 1 hour.

But for an older child, (that know that we don<t pull other peoples hair, eat stuff from the garbage and run to the traffic) negatively worded statements provide more choice and can help with the frustration.

[LitMom]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

If we are keeping responses within the philosophy of Gentle Discipline, I would say this doesn't sound all that Gentle to me.

Well, perhaps the shortest answer to the OPs question, "how do you expect kids to do something or 'not give them a choice'?" may be that you don't practice particularly gentle discipline. I don't tend to post here, and frankly that's why. I don't use physical discipline, but I don't claim to be all gentle either. 

Also, the "break her of something" refers to breaking a habit. Just like an adult habit like eating sweets after the kids are in bed or smoking or whatever. Thowing a fit about clothes every or most days can become a habit. 

[Friday13th]

For me, being goofy, offering a variety of choices, etc are for non-negotiable things. If we HAVE to be dressed and in the car at a certain time (and there are days we don't) they are told of that ahead of time, given a warning to wrap up what they're doing and then the choice is: put on your own clothes or I will help you put them on. I find the more I try to coax them something that isn't actually negotiable the more upset they get. So if I were to say, they don't havea choice in the matter, that's what I would mean. There are things we all have to do that we don't really have a choice about. They get a lot of other choices and I aim to be calm and gentle but in some situations, it just has to happen.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Jumping in after reading the first page...(and will go back and read the others). 

Not all parents who talk about expectations are talking about behavior that they have not yet had to face or are insensitive to how challenging things can get. I know I've been in both places -- those times where things are just not going well and there seems like no truly gentle solution to a problem AND where simply expecting cooperation seems to work like magic. 

I do agree that for some "expectations" translates to not meeting expectations = punishment. This is not what I mean...

It's almost like treating children like an adult in the way that you tend to expect cooperation from an adult. You don't expect totally unreasonable uncooperative behavior from your adult relationships (we should hope). You expect your DP to get dressed quickly if you're running late, for example. This WORKS with children. Far more often than one may first think. It doesn't work all the time but it really does work some of the time. I suppose it's about that "living up to our expectations". 

So when *I* say that "having positive expectations" can be a great tool/habit I don't mean that you punish if kids don't comply and I don't mean that this works all the time or that I can't sympathize with kids acting totally unreasonably. It's just a tool that can be used and it's the nicest one when it works, imo. 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I'm going through and quoting some of things that would have worked well for my personalty and that of my older child (I don't have power struggles yet with the little one) -- and things that maybe the OP hasn't thought of (because it does sound to me like the OP is an effective GD mama)...

Originally Posted by dovey 

In our family, I have a philosophy that helps us avoid power struggles (if I can remember to stick to it). 

Never ask the child to do something that you know she won't do.  Never ask the child more than one time - make sure that you have her complete attention when you ask.   

I love this!  I was never a fan of "playful parenting" or even much of a fan of "choices" and other distractions. I think it doesn't fit well with my personality and I also kind of thought it was avoiding emotions in a weird way. No dig on those for whom all of this resonates...I do all kinds of things that wouldn't fit with other personalities. 

I like just stating things as they are, with positive expectations. "Time to get dressed, I'm running late..."  The habit of not asking questions you already know the answer to comes in handy down the road for things like fibbing, chores and etc. If it isn't an option, don't phrase it as such and etc. 

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by starling&diesel 

  *Never ask them to do something you know they won't do,...

I also agree with LOTM and SD's ideas about pick your battles as generally good advice for parents. OP, it sounds to me like you probably already do that but it's a good reminder for all of us. 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Back to the expectations thing...

I think I may have first thought of it framed in the Continuum Concept theory, which I have almost totally forgotten. But one of the best ways to describe it have to do with going places with a toddler. When it's safe to do so, I walk with my toddler with the full expectation that she is coming with me. When it's time to go, I tell her we're leaving and I walk away at a normal pace. I try fully expect that she's coming and don't look back for a bit. When it's time to look back I try as if I am just looking back to interact with her (not to check if she's coming). If I can do this *for real* it just works. It has worked with both of my kids.  

Now I have had two fairly cooperative kids and neither is all that spirited so I don't mean to be insensitive about that but I do encourage you to try this if nothing else because it's a somewhat fascinating thing (if) when it starts to "work". If you get to a genuine place where you are expecting cooperation it's also the least coercive forms of discipline that I've encountered. 

[elus0814]

Originally Posted by elus0814 

Similarly, not everyone has time or ability to make everyday a comfortable routine for each child so that child will be set up for an easy time following the rules and behaving well.

The point of the routine isn't doing what one child wants, but doing things the same way over and over so that ALL the children know what to expect. The keys are having reasonable expectations for the kids and allowing them to know what to expect from us. It is NOT to try to tailor life to the whims of one child. For example with the mom getting kid ready vs dad getting kid ready, the parents need to decide and stick with it. The child can deal with either, but needs to know what to expect.

Saying that she is sometimes fine with a last minute change is a bit like saying that sometimes I can speed and not get a ticket. If I speed and get a ticket, and I want to know how to avoid that in the future, the answer is to Not Speed (even though I've sped lots of times without any consequences).

Routines save time because they cause everything to flow more smoothly. If mornings are a huge issue, making a simple picture chart for the child, following it 7 days a week, and having the last thing being something fun (like 5 minutes of reading together) would start paying off in less than a week and the parent would find they have MORE time.

I see what you're saying about how routines are important but not everyone is able to create a set routine everyday. In my family we've had many, many charts and they don't work for us. I think they're a great idea but it's just not something that has made a difference, no matter how much time or how many days are spent on it. Part of the problem is that I'm not always available for immediate rewards. I can tell the kids that I will read to them as soon as they do everything on their chart but what about when something else needs immediate attention? I'm not comfortable promising what might not happen, at least not when it is 'supposed' to happen. I can't ignore the needs of others to reward good chart following.

Doing things the same way over and over is a great goal but isn't always possible. That family might not be able to change their schedules so the child can always have the same morning routine. They might not be able to avoid last minute changes. To me a parent changing lots of things to accommodate what schedule makes it easiest for their child to behave is a bit like changing the rules so the child doesn't have to follow them. To use your example, what if a higher speed limit makes it easier for you to comply with the law? Should it be changed so you can do what you want rather than have to follow the rules? If the sped limit was changed to be 50mph faster than it is now could the government then claim people are following the speed limit 99% of the time instead of the current 50% (or whatever number)? Sure, but they would just be manipulating things to get it to appear how they want it to look. The point is that everyone would be following the rules if they would just make the rules easier to follow but that's not always in the best interest of everyone. I could see maybe changing things to accommodate one or two children but some families have too many children (or too many others things that need to be done) to change things and therefore the kids need to follow what rules are set out.

A question on the cookies example - 

What happens when you see your child with a package of cookies and say 'you can choose to have one or you can choose to have two' then your child 'chooses' to have five? It's easy to say a child has two choices but in reality they actually have many, many choices. They can sit in the kitchen and eat as many as they can before anyone notices. They can try to sneak the package to their room to save them for themselves for later. They can get annoyed over only being allowed to have one or two and throw them on the floor then refuse to clean the mess up. They can stand there and scream, making life stressful and uncomfortable for everyone else. It seems to me that the question in the original post is not so much 'what do you say to your child' but 'how do you get your child to actually do what you say and/or what happens if and when they don't'. 

After one chance to return the bag of cookies, I would quickly grab it away and put it where they couldn't reach it. If that wasn't possible, I would completely ignore the child -- not even look directly at them. The situation would resolve itself eventually, and then I would rework where sugar junk food is kept in my house.

Any parent who is repeatedly dealing with this scenario really needs to change their own behavior. Feeding their child better food might help their behavior, and if they are going to have crap in the house, they need to keep it out of reach. Many, many children behave horribly when they eat much sugar, and few children get a bag of apples out of the fridge and threaten to eat the whole thing. 

Not all parents are able to immediately grab things away. If I have something on the stove, another child who just fell, etc. I can't guard the kitchen. Saying that our problems come from 'sugary junk food' is you taking what I said and twisting it. I was using an example from a previous post to ask a question. I was not saying that my children have constant access to bags of cookies. Give me a break.

While I can't see many children 'threatening' to eat a bag of apples some children will grab healthy food and eat it when they are not supposed to. My kids have eaten food they knew was being saved for a certain recipe. They've also taken their favorite foods and eaten it, something like a small package of berries that was supposed to be for everyone can be eaten by a child pretty quickly. Something like apples might not be entirely consumed but some kids like to take a bite out of each apple. This means all the apples need to be used right away (made into applesauce or something else). It might not sound like a problem but tell that to all the other kids who aren't going to get the fresh apples they picked out for themselves to eat all week.

One more question -

If you tell your child they have 'made a choice' to not get dressed and you will then do it for them what happens when you are not physically able to do it? I know I wouldn't be able to hold down and dress a four year old without risking injury. I'd rather take a child out in their pajamas to avoid being kicked in the face and ending up at the hospital with no one to watch the kids but that doesn't really solve the problem of a child not getting dressed (some kids just aren't embarrassed when going out in pajamas or they might think it's fun to do so).

Have them sleep in clothes that double as outwear, like sweat pants and t shirts. I would say that this is behavior that will eventually resolve itself, but I know a couple of high school girls who wear PJ bottoms to school, so may be not!

I wouldn't physically wrestle a child into clothing -- that's too physical for me. For me, that would be crossing the line into "non gentle discipline."  We can all draw that line a little differently.

I'm with you that physically dressing a child doesn't seem right. The question was more 'what do you do when you can't allow your kids to sleep in their clothes' or 'what happens when the problem doesn't simply resolve itself'. For example, some kids go to schools with uniforms or dress codes. A child might want nothing more than to go to school in what they slept in but it might not be allowed. Private schools will call the parent to bring in something else for the student to wear if what they have on does not comply with the dress code, is wrinkled, or is dirty. Yes, it happens. Even with preschoolers. Then what? Let them stay home from school because they don't want to get dressed? What about when a parent needs to go to work? Things don't always just resolve on their own, at least not without a child getting kicked out of school first. I know what you're thinking. Just send the kid to public school. In some areas public schools are terrible and it wouldn't be fair to make a child go there just because they don't like what they have to wear.

Yet another question - 

What happens when a safety issue comes up? A child who keep taking unbuckling their car seat is putting themselves in danger. It isn't always possible (or safe) to pull the car over repeatedly or to sit on the side of the road. A child in a bad mood might not want to listen to how important it is to keep their seat buckled and how happy it will make their parents. 

I'm not sure how to deal with the seat belt issue. That's one that never came up for us. My kids really were never risking anything more than minor cuts and bruises, and I figure those are learning experiences. I do draw the line at anything that could cause serious injury. If it could land them at the ER or worse, then I wouldn't allow it. But I don't know specifically how to deal with the seat belt issue.

"Then I wouldn't allow it" is, at least I think, exactly the kind of phrase people are confused about. How do you not allow it? If what is 'not allowed' is done anyway what happens then? It's not always as easy as saying something is not allowed. A child who keep unbuckling their car seat or runs out into a parking lot has probably never been told they are allowed to do so and has likely been told it is not allowed. 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Elus, 

I feel like I can recognize some of your thought process -- I remember a time of feeling doubtful about how this whole discipline thing would work. I'm sure I'll find myself there again as my young one enters the terrible 3/4 age that I disliked the first time around and I'm SURE I'll have doubts when my 11 year old enters the teen years. How's that for positive expectations? 

But, one other thing that has served me really, really well over the 11 years of discipline is to take each problem by itself. Even ones that feel like they're a problem because they're a pattern. Take each individual challenge and address it by itself. It's SO much easier to fix one issue than it is to fix a pattern of behavior. It's easier for you as the parent but, more importantly, it's easier for your child to correct an individual incident. 

[littlegreenlady]

I have been surprised to find that sometimes wording a request differently can make all the difference. My son is 3 and though I work at home and we don't often have somewhere we "have" to be he still gives me plenty to work with. I want to second the recommendation of the book -How to talk so your children will listen and Listen so your children will talk- It was easy to read and because of the way it is written I was easily able to remember the different options for approaching a problem. I have recently started reading -nonviolent communication....- and again was surprised to see that after just a few pages I was able to alter my communication in a way that helped my 3 year old understand and go along with my request or refusal to give him something that I felt was inappropriate at the time.

I have read and been told soooo many times to not let the other persons anger, sadness etc affect the way I feel especially in these situations. I never got that thinking, well off course it affects me! But I think after hearing it so many times it's starting to sink in. Someone mentioned children having a radar and I find this to be so true. If I am able to let go of my attachment to the outcome of the situation emotionally then I find my son tends to react with less strength and/or gets over it with more ease (and at times a lot faster). He is three so he still screams and cries and gets very angry, I try to  be there with him while he does this without trying to distract him, make it better, or tell him he is wrong. i may say something along the lines of "I hear/see that you are -------- (angry, sad, frustrated etc)" and give him the I love you no matter what vibe. He eventually calms down and moves on. 

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama 

Back to the expectations thing...

I think I may have first thought of it framed in the Continuum Concept theory, which I have almost totally forgotten. But one of the best ways to describe it have to do with going places with a toddler. When it's safe to do so, I walk with my toddler with the full expectation that she is coming with me. When it's time to go, I tell her we're leaving and I walk away at a normal pace. I try fully expect that she's coming and don't look back for a bit. When it's time to look back I try as if I am just looking back to interact with her (not to check if she's coming). If I can do this *for real* it just works. It has worked with both of my kids.  

Now I have had two fairly cooperative kids and neither is all that spirited so I don't mean to be insensitive about that but I do encourage you to try this if nothing else because it's a somewhat fascinating thing (if) when it starts to "work". If you get to a genuine place where you are expecting cooperation it's also the least coercive forms of discipline that I've encountered. 

Yes!  The Continuum Concept is exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote my first post in this thread, but I thought it might be a bit much to get into.  It's hard to summarize it in a nutshell, and the author's outdated hyperbolic language is a bit much at times, but the CC is absolutely the root of my free range parenting to date. It's worked well for us: expecting and assuming and reacting as if your child is a respected and vital member of the village and as such of course will exercise his or her full potential, including cooperation and work and merrymaking too.

[Linda on the move]

Elus, I feel like you are dragging in a lot of stuff that isn't related to the thread, and arguing with everything. My main point for this thread is this:

For a basic task that a young child needs to do every day,

such as getting dressed, establishing a simple routine

with a desirable activity at the end

which the parent follows religiously

will ease the process of getting this task accomplished.

I'm only going to respond to your comments that relate directly toward this topic.

t. Part of the problem is that I'm not always available for immediate rewards. I can tell the kids that I will read to them as soon as they do everything on their chart but what about when something else needs immediate attention?

The desired activity at the end can be ANYTHING that is motivating to your child and that you are fine with. I gave the example of reading together for 5 minutes to break away from the limited thinking that rewards need to be stickers/candy/screen time. But it be anything, even something that requires next to nothing from you, as long as it is motivating to your child. However, any parent who routinely spends more than 5 minutes a day joking/arguing/wrestling with their child to get dressed DOES have 5 minutes to spend with their child, if only they changed some the negative time they are spending to positive time. 

Doing things the same way over and over is a great goal but isn't always possible. That family might not be able to change their schedules so the child can always have the same morning routine. They might not be able to avoid last minute changes.

Although crises do happen, and routines can fall apart during illness, a move, a holiday, nearly all children do better with a routine and the greater the degree we can make that happen, that easier for everyone. I'm advocating making it a priority, setting the schedule around what you decide is the routine that will general be possible. For me when my kids were small, the important thing was doing everything in the same order, not at what time the routine happened. Part of this is about planning and being preemptive, moving from living from crises to crises to creating a flow.

To me a parent changing lots of things to accommodate what schedule makes it easiest for their child to behave is a bit like changing the rules so the child doesn't have to follow them. To use your example, what if a higher speed limit makes it easier for you to comply with the law? Should it be changed so you can do what you want rather than have to follow the rules? If the sped limit was changed to be 50mph faster than it is now could the government then claim people are following the speed limit 99% of the time instead of the current 50% (or whatever number)? Sure, but they would just be manipulating things to get it to appear how they want it to look. The point is that everyone would be following the rules if they would just make the rules easier to follow but that's not always in the best interest of everyone.

I disagree with your analogy. Refusing to create routine for your family that your children can count on is like changing all the traffic laws every day and expecting the drivers to just flow with it. Imagine how frustrating it would be if every time you got in your car, you had to figure out whether to drive on the right or the left, whether or not you had the right away at intersections, the speed limits changed and were not posted, and you were randomly yelled at for not knowing that you were supposed to be doing. That is what life is like for a small child whose parent constantly changes how things happen in their family. They have no idea what is about to happen or what they are supposed to do, and they get really, really frustrated.

In my family we've had many, many charts and they don't work for us. I think they're a great idea but it's just not something that has made a difference, no matter how much time or how many days are spent on it.

It's obvious from you post that you don't understand how to create a routine, or even what it should be based on. This isn't about centering on your kids desires, but teaching your children how to get the things done that YOU need them to do. It's not being child centered, it's teaching children to be part of a group. I think the problem with routines in you family lies in you execution of them, not whether or not they would be helpful to your children.

[elus0814]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Elus, I feel like you are dragging in a lot of stuff that isn't related to the thread, and arguing with everything. My main point for this thread is this:

For a basic task that a young child needs to do every day,

such as getting dressed, establishing a simple routine

with a desirable activity at the end

which the parent follows religiously

will ease the process of getting this task accomplished.

I'm only going to respond to your comments that relate directly toward this topic.

t. Part of the problem is that I'm not always available for immediate rewards. I can tell the kids that I will read to them as soon as they do everything on their chart but what about when something else needs immediate attention?

The desired activity at the end can be ANYTHING that is motivating to your child and that you are fine with. I gave the example of reading together for 5 minutes to break away from the limited thinking that rewards need to be stickers/candy/screen time. But it be anything, even something that requires next to nothing from you, as long as it is motivating to your child. However, any parent who routinely spends more than 5 minutes a day joking/arguing/wrestling with their child to get dressed DOES have 5 minutes to spend with their child, if only they changed some the negative time they are spending to positive time. 

Doing things the same way over and over is a great goal but isn't always possible. That family might not be able to change their schedules so the child can always have the same morning routine. They might not be able to avoid last minute changes.

Although crises do happen, and routines can fall apart during illness, a move, a holiday, nearly all children do better with a routine and the greater the degree we can make that happen, that easier for everyone. I'm advocating making it a priority, setting the schedule around what you decide is the routine that will general be possible. For me when my kids were small, the important thing was doing everything in the same order, not at what time the routine happened. Part of this is about planning and being preemptive, moving from living from crises to crises to creating a flow.

To me a parent changing lots of things to accommodate what schedule makes it easiest for their child to behave is a bit like changing the rules so the child doesn't have to follow them. To use your example, what if a higher speed limit makes it easier for you to comply with the law? Should it be changed so you can do what you want rather than have to follow the rules? If the sped limit was changed to be 50mph faster than it is now could the government then claim people are following the speed limit 99% of the time instead of the current 50% (or whatever number)? Sure, but they would just be manipulating things to get it to appear how they want it to look. The point is that everyone would be following the rules if they would just make the rules easier to follow but that's not always in the best interest of everyone.

I disagree with your analogy. Refusing to create routine for your family that your children can count on is like changing all the traffic laws every day and expecting the drivers to just flow with it. Imagine how frustrating it would be if every time you got in your car, you had to figure out whether to drive on the right or the left, whether or not you had the right away at intersections, the speed limits changed and were not posted, and you were randomly yelled at for not knowing that you were supposed to be doing. That is what life is like for a small child whose parent constantly changes how things happen in their family. They have no idea what is about to happen or what they are supposed to do, and they get really, really frustrated.

In my family we've had many, many charts and they don't work for us. I think they're a great idea but it's just not something that has made a difference, no matter how much time or how many days are spent on it.

It's obvious from you post that you don't understand how to create a routine, or even what it should be based on. This isn't about centering on your kids desires, but teaching your children how to get the things done that YOU need them to do. It's not being child centered, it's teaching children to be part of a group. I think the problem with routines in you family lies in you execution of them, not whether or not they would be helpful to your children.

It sounds like you've dealt with one type of family, one where routines/charts/etc. work well. We've spent endless hours keeping charts and routines going. It's just not for us. That's ok, everyone isn't the same and the same things don'e always work for each family. I'm not putting down what you are doing with your family, just explaining why it hasn't worked with my own. I'm here to get more ideas, something besides 'if you just tried harder then your family will be like mine and routines will work for you'. We've tried harder and then tried some more. Time for a new plan.

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Although crises do happen, and routines can fall apart during illness, a move, a holiday, nearly all children do better with a routine and the greater the degree we can make that happen, that easier for everyone. I'm advocating making it a priority, setting the schedule around what you decide is the routine that will general be possible. For me when my kids were small, the important thing was doing everything in the same order, not at what time the routine happened. Part of this is about planning and being preemptive, moving from living from crises to crises to creating a flow.

Well put, Linda.  I find that the more stable the rhythm of our home is, the better equipped my children are to roll with last minute changes and impromptu needs that arise.  I think they take comfort in knowing that we can deviate from our rhythm, but then we'll get back to it as soon as we can.

We travel a lot, and this seems to work on the road too.  No matter where we are, breakfast comes before an outing, nap comes after lunch, there will be stories at bedtime, etc.  If your routine is low key, then it's not a big deal to let it shift as needs demand.  

No charts.

No schedules.

No rewards.

No promises that can't be kept.

As for rewards, we don't use them.  They just seem to up the ante.  I need my kids to feel an intrinsic responsibility to be a capable and contributing member of the family, as age and development allow.  Might not happen all the time, but that's what we're aiming for.

[ameliabedelia]

My oldest was the only one that ever fought us about getting dressed.  That is because we used to let her hang out in the jammies or with just a diaper or whatever.   After a couple episodes of fighting to get her dressed so we could go someplace, I stopped doing that. With all my other kids, we just made it part of our routine that we get dressed first thing in the morning, always, every single day, even weekends, snow days, etc,  That way, we were always ready, (with the exception of putting shoes/coats on) when it was time to go.  I find that if you just always, always, always do something and are super consistent, they tend not to fight it really.  At least that has been my experience.   Granted, it means no lounging around in our pajamas all day, but I don't like doing that really anyway.   At least, this is what works for us, when it comes to getting dressed.  I think when people say that htey just "expect" something to happen, that consistency is a big part of that.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by elus0814 
We've spent endless hours keeping charts and routines going. It's just not for us. 

We do have some sort of routine now because my oldest is in school & has activities, my DH works on a schedule and I to to school myself - it's kind of hard NOT to have a routine when you have 3/4 fairly active people in a family. BUT, I am not inclined towards routines at all. When my first was young she slept in the sling, nursed on demand (like 50x/day!) and we traveled the world. It was pretty awesome and she was a sweet, dreamy baby in many ways. Lots of people marveled at how I could get her to sleep anywhere and stuff like that. So, like with routines, other ways of doing things have advantages too. 

Like you said, you are finding what works for you. Look at what feels authentic. Consider what you are able to do. Think of what would be a good fit for your kids. 

When things get really frustrating to me, we do a "back to basics" regime where we eat well, sleep well, mellow out, limit bad habits and etc. It's a way to reconnect and focus on what's important. Following that, is a good time to try new things, IME. 

I currently have a "Family Responsibility Chart" on my fridge. It's the most embarrassing thing to me. I personally dislike "organization centers" from an aesthetic perspective. The just bug me *for myself* (I think they're kind of cool for other people). But, that's where we are right now. We've got 4 people with different needs and we needed something to keep us accountable. Honestly, it's not working all that well. We go back to our natures. But it helps a little. 

My point - we all try things on and figure stuff out. And there's a sweet spot between being authentic and being open to new ideas. Sounds like you just need a new idea!  

[mamazee]

My second kid is really easy and it's no problem getting her to do anything. But the first was a challenge. I would tell her to get dressed, then tell her to get dressed again, then just get her dressed, even if she fussed. I didn't get upset but I'd just get her dressed. Like, "Oh, I see you aren't dressed yet. OK, let's get your shirt on." And I'd just do it.

The "waiting for the bus" thing works frequently but not always for me. But the whole How To Talk thing has a group of things you can do, one after hte other when one doens't work, and by the time you get to waiting for the bus, you've done a few other thigns often, and I think that helps. Like you describe. "You aren't dressed yet." You say, "When we have to go out but you don't get dressed when you need to, it makes me worry we'll be late." You say, "Your clothes!" Then you wait for the bus. I have always found that works pretty well.

Sometimes I'll repeat it, to the point of being silly. "Clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes clothes." Sometiems I sing it. The playful parenting stuff can work. Then she'll get laughing and do it.

I guess I have to read her mood and do what feels like it'll work that time. I don't always guess right and we muddle through some of the time.

We have general flexible routines but we aren't rigid. When we have trouble getting a bunch of things done on time, I've had her make a list and put it up, and then I'll say, "check your list" every so often to remind her to check it. Since she makes the lists, she doesn't mind following them.

We're doing pretty well now at 11. It was much harder between 6 and 8. I just kept on expecting it and kept on expecting it and eventually she got used to doing it. That doesn't mean it always worked, but the longer I kept expecting her to do it and kept after her to do it, the more she got used to doing it and the less of a struggle it was.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

Sorry if this is OT a bit, but this is a big deal for me.  Sometimes, wording things with a negative actually provides more freedom than wording it in the positive.  Example:  "Walk on the sidewalk", while informative, is more restrictive than stating "Don't walk in the street."  My point is that sticking with positively worded statements isn't necessarily better.

The younger the child, the less likely the child listens well enough to hear the 'not' . And the negative leaves walking through a neighbor's flower bed as an option. I'd stick with the positive, unless I couldn't think of one.

[pek64]

Unless I'm confused, we are talking about something that occurs too rarely to have a routine. Unless you practice one on the weekends.