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99.999% of Children Have No Serious Side Effects from Vaccines - Page 4

post #61 of 110
So you're saying f someone comes to the er after having a seizure the fact that the came to the er and the fact that they had a seizure are both not recorded. That must make billing difficult.
post #62 of 110

it's also NOT in their charts at the Dr where the vac took place either, if you go to a public health dr for the vac, you don't go back (in my state) to them, you would go to your primary and they don't even have a record you had a vac

 

and YES I do know that -personal experience (I know that doesn't count in your world!) - many on here have said about telling their drs only to find NOTHING was ever written down, most times they are told not to even come in when they call about a "reaction"

post #63 of 110
Quote:
So you're saying f someone comes to the er after having a seizure the fact that the came to the er and the fact that they had a seizure are both not recorded. That must make billing difficult.

The seizure is recored the reason for is just what the other mother posted - NO CONNECTION to the vac- random 

 

let me break it to you, this does happen IRL

post #64 of 110

Vaccine safety data link works through large managed care groups like kaiser permanente.  So yes, even if they dont' go to their regular doctor it still gets recorded in their medical records and would would be considered under VSDL.  It makes absolutely no difference if the doctor records it as a vaccine reaction or not.

post #65 of 110
Quote:
Vaccine safety data link works through large managed care groups like kaiser permanente. So yes, even if they dont' go to their regular doctor it still gets recorded in their medical records and would would be considered under VSDL.  It makes absolutely no difference if the doctor records it as a vaccine reaction or not.

headscratch.gif you really must live in a different world from the rest of us- that can be the only answer

post #66 of 110

yeah, I've noticed I seem to be the only one that realizes VAERS isnt' the only tool we have for monitoring vaccine safety, too.

post #67 of 110

Can you explain how magic fairies (or maybe it's flying monkeys that do it) when as a parent, you just CALL the dr's office where your child was just vaced and say they have a rash or have cried non-stop for hours, can't move, are having a seizure,  etc and they don't even see you and say this is all normal-------

 

that doesn't count right? or magic fairies really get that "reaction" recored some magic way? correct in your realm of logic-

 

it's a reaction if the dr won't even see you-the dr records it but it's not real-correct? 

post #68 of 110
I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore if you're just going to get nastier and nastier. Let me know when you're ready to act like a grown up.
post #69 of 110

it's a very simple question - if a dr who's office just gave your child a vac says they will not see you- "it's normal"- how can it be real and recored?

 

I guess in Rrrrrrachel's world you have to go to an ER each time - that's news most parents do not know, most call their dr first 

post #70 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

it's a very simple question - if a dr who's office just gave your child a vac says they will not see you- "it's normal"- how can it be real and recored?

 

I guess in Rrrrrrachel's world you have to go to an ER each time - that's news most parents do not know, most call their dr first 



Thank you for explaining so clearly what happens.  I have explained this over and over again, and you wouldn't believe how often I have been sneered at by the pro-vaxxers for doing so.  When my child had a  ________ (fill in swear word of choice) SEIZURE REACTION to his 2-month shots, I had no idea what was happening.  I'd never seen a seizure, I didn't know that's what it was, I'd never seen a vax reaction, and I was a new mother who had not slept more than an hour at a time in 2 months.  

I did what most parents would do.  I called the pediatrician's office.  I spoke to the nurse, who berated me for "over-reacting" and for being
"a hysterical new mother" when I tried to describe what was happening.

 

I didn't have any way of knowing HOW seriously wrong she was.  But I did ask why I couldn't just bring my baby for the doctor to see for himself.  She told me that they wouldn't see me and that they would just send me home.  I said, "look, I think something is really wrong, this can't be normal, maybe I should bring him to the ER," and she told me that, since the doctor's office had advised me not to bring him in, then my insurance would not cover a trip to the ER, since it required a referral from the pediatrician.

 

I've lost count of the parents I've met--both in real life and through the internet--who have similar stories.

 

People like Rrrrrachel and prosciencemum would have us believe that such reactions are A) vanishingly rare and B) recognized and reported.  Both A) and B) are obviously not true. We all know it--and I think they do, too. I'm tired of the vaccine defenders coming here and implying or even outright saying that we parents were somehow mistaken, that our baby sneezed or something and the poor foolish parents thought it was a seizure.

 

This is life-and-death serious for some people, and life-wrecking for many, many others.

post #71 of 110
Quote:
People like Rrrrrachel and prosciencemum would have us believe that such reactions are A) vanishingly rare and B) recognized and reported.  Both A) and B) are obviously not true. We all know it--and I think they do, too. I'm tired of the vaccine defenders coming here and implying or even outright saying that we parents were somehow mistaken, that our baby sneezed or something and the poor foolish parents thought it was a seizure.

precisely! 

 

it's the "magic bean theory" (as I would call it) that somehow (even if you are only dealing with ER's)  ALL visits are somehow magically connected and recorded when we all know that in reality that does not happen, one they don't find a connect with the vac, two you often are not even believed of anything unless they see it happening in the case of seizures right than and there, three there simply is no reporting - yet in the defenders minds "they" know are are recording this to VSDL and the joke about VARS,  is largely done by a tiny, tiny percentage of parents (most having no clue about it so not reporting) yet somehow this magically is  achieved - 

 

Quote:
Vaccine safety data link works through large managed care groups like kaiser permanente.  So yes, even if they dont' go to their regular doctor it still gets recorded in their medical records and would would be considered under VSDL.  It makes absolutely no difference if the doctor records it as a vaccine reaction or not.
 
 
We have things like vaccine safety datalink that looks in medical records for patterns of diagnosis, increased hospital admission or pcp visits, etc in time frames after vaccine administration. That's completely independent of whether something is actively recognized as a reaction or not.

There are some studies that look at the effects of vaccination years down the road.

 

just like jack and his stalk, if you keep retelling tall tales you get fantasy - I have a goose that lays gold egg if anyone want her - just pay my price! 

post #72 of 110
You should read more about vaccine safety datalink. In a managed care setting all visits ARE connected.

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21502240/

Sounds like you might want to read up on managed care, too.
post #73 of 110
Quote:
You should read more about vaccine safety datalink. In a managed care setting all visits ARE connected.

posting links is not answering questions whistling.gif

post #74 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

You should read more about vaccine safety datalink. In a managed care setting all visits ARE connected.

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21502240/

Sounds like you might want to read up on managed care, too.

"The 8 participating MCOs comprise a large population of 8.8 million members annually (3% of the US population), which enables researchers to conduct studies that assess adverse events after immunization."

 

What's happening with the remaining 97% of the population?

post #75 of 110
Quote:
What's happening with the remaining 97% of the population?

no reactions! no need! ROTFLMAO.gif

post #76 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

You should read more about vaccine safety datalink. In a managed care setting all visits ARE connected.

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21502240/

Sounds like you might want to read up on managed care, too.

But Rrrrrachel - I think the point that is trying to be made is that many reactions are not getting recognized by docs when the parent CALLS to request a visit. The parent is put off like Taxi states and convinced they are hysterical and these reactions are normal. No visit ever happens. The VSDL cannot capture a visit that never happens. 

post #77 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

"The 8 participating MCOs comprise a large population of 8.8 million members annually (3% of the US population), which enables researchers to conduct studies that assess adverse events after immunization."

What's happening with the remaining 97% of the population?

Is there any reason to suspect that 3% has lower or higher than typical rates of vaccine reactions? It's a sample survey method - quite standard (like voter polls in advance of the election for example).
post #78 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

But Rrrrrachel - I think the point that is trying to be made is that many reactions are not getting recognized by docs when the parent CALLS to request a visit. The parent is put off like Taxi states and convinced they are hysterical and these reactions are normal. No visit ever happens. The VSDL cannot capture a visit that never happens. 

So I'm a bit confused by this argument. Surely if the dr is wrong to deny a first appointment but then there is some long term health impact for the child they will have apts about it going forward, which then make it into the kinds of statistical studies Rrrrrachel has pointed out do happen. So long term at least that reaction makes it into the data, even if never recognized by a dr as a reaction.
post #79 of 110
Quote:
So I'm a bit confused by this argument. Surely if the dr is wrong to deny a first appointment but then there is some long term health impact for the child they will have apts about it going forward, which then make it into the kinds of statistical studies Rrrrrachel has pointed out do happen. So long term at least that reaction makes it into the data, even if never recognized by a dr as a reaction.

So, you are saying autism is directly connected to vac-right?

 

Those I know who have autism (and made that call right after a vac and couldn't get in- because it's NORMAL) end up going and going to the Dr (doctors!) ALL the time (as in your long term description here) so the connections has to be there!   

 

                                                                      joy.gifThanks for clearing that up for everyone! 

 

direction connection that is reported!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!joy.gif

post #80 of 110
Quote:
 It's a sample survey method - quite standard (like voter polls in advance of the election for example).

I can think of one person that took their advanced poll numbers and still can't grasp what happened! OT but how could I refuse in the USA

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