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advice please - dh strict & controlling attitude - Page 3

post #41 of 73

@captain optimism let's get on the same page here, OP stated she IS afraid of her DH.....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post

Yes, I was afraid of him, as it turns out in retrospect... But at the time I did not think I was, I thought that was silly I knew he wouldn't hit me or anything so I planned to confront him indirectly by just suggesting we watch dvd together.. However when my parenting dvd arrived, he refused to watch it with me and was very defensive. So defensive we had a little fight or argument about it which had me depressed for hours and I think I couldn't sleep half the night and I realized THATS why I do not confront him about things that bother me. I lose sleep afterwards, get a headache, lose hours of work (I work from home)... it is so emotionally draining... I'm not afraid physically but I pay the price emotionally so I tended to avoid him most of this year.

.........

He was very angry that I challenged him on something to do with parenting, he is always like this, he will be very upset if I don't like his way of doing things...

 

I didn't pull that out of thin air.  Nor did I advocate for punishment.  If you've read around, I'm all for GD, I'm a PR (that would be positive reinforcement) dog trainer I have a very clear understanding of behavior.  I will absolutely advocate for the least invasive way of getting to a conclusion, mush as in your seatbelt example.  BUT if a family is choosing a particular method - time outs - I'm stating that they need to be done that same way in order to have the same meaning.  Time outs do no have to be demeaning or abusive and for some children are a viable option to control behavior....much like putting a dog in a crate or removing them to separate room for misbehavior - consistency and timing are key.  Time outs are identical in methodology for humans or animals.  The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change.  It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and they can come to a compromise.

post #42 of 73
Oh, yes, I know she's said that she's afraid of him. I just think that's because of what he's doing, not because she's failing to woman up and stand up to him. I want to put this on him, not on her. (Sorry if my use of question marks was confusing!) 
 
People also decide to stay with their spouses in order to avoid having to share custody of their children after a divorce. 
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeydef View Post

How do I delete all my posts? Is there a mod who can please help me?


If you go back to a post that you have made, you'll see an icon in the lower left corner than looks like a pencil. This icon only appears in YOUR posts. If you hover your mouse over it, the word "edit" appears. Click on it, and your post becomes editable. You can then delete your text. The post cannot be left blank, so it is common to replace the old text with something like "deleted" or "no message."

 

Or, you could type up what it is that you mean so we understand you. No one is twisting your words - we really are going by what you are expressing in writing. Starting out by defending a parent who is emotionally abusive is perhaps not the best way to go. You seem to be arguing that his end goal is appropriate, just his methods are off.

 

Also, I never said how your kids will turn out. Raising children is not like baking cookies where if we follow a recipe just right we get a certain result. All of our children have free will, and they will all turn out pretty much how they choose to turn out. Some kids turn out awesome in spite of their parents, and some kids make poor choices in spite of their parents. Personally, I think there are only 2 things we can aim for:

 

1. To be as respectful and kind to our children as possible, because that is the morally right thing to do. We control our own behavior and choices.

 

2, To help them learn to make choices that will help them get the results they want from their lives. I think that certain types of interactions (such as I have advocated in this thread) make that more possible. After a few short years, we end up with very little control, and they will make all the choices that really matter in their lives. None the less, the choices are theirs, not ours.

post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post
 

 The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change.  It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and they can come to a compromise.

 

Based on what she has said about her husband, a compromise isn't possible because he can't even have a real conversation about it. Anything she says to him leaves her defeated and drained. Reading your advice, I suspect that you haven't had someone like that in your family, so you really don't get what it means to live with them,.

 

All you can do it is try and escape.

post #45 of 73
I ha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post


If you go back to a post that you have made, you'll see an icon in the lower left corner than looks like a pencil. This icon only appears in YOUR posts. If you hover your mouse over it, the word "edit" appears. Click on it, and your post becomes editable. You can then delete your text. The post cannot be left blank, so it is common to replace the old text with something like "deleted" or "no message."

Or, you could type up what it is that you mean so we understand you. No one is twisting your words - we really are going by what you are expressing in writing. Starting out by defending a parent who is emotionally abusive is perhaps not the best way to go. You seem to be arguing that his end goal is appropriate, just his methods are off.

Also, I never said how your kids will turn out. Raising children is not like baking cookies where if we follow a recipe just right we get a certain result. All of our children have free will, and they will all turn out pretty much how they choose to turn out. Some kids turn out awesome in spite of their parents, and some kids make poor choices in spite of their parents. Personally, I think there are only 2 things we can aim for:

1. To be as respectful and kind to our children as possible, because that is the morally right thing to do. We control our own behavior and choices.

2, To help them learn to make choices that will help them get the results they want from their lives. I think that certain types of interactions (such as I have advocated in this thread) make that more possible. After a few short years, we end up with very little control, and they will make all the choices that really matter in their lives. None the less, the choices are theirs, not ours.
I have deleted my previous posts and again I said several times I did not agree with the husband so I don't know why you said I was defending him! I stated several times I did not agree with him!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

B][/B]The way this is completely relevant to this thread is that eventually, your kids will disagree with you and tell you why. That doesn't mean they are attacking you, or god forbid, disrespecting you, but rather that they are separate human beings who see things differently.

I think there is a big overlap between parents who want their kids to "obey and respect" and people who get super bent out of shape when other disagree with them. It's the same feeling coming from inside, just labeled differently if it is pointed at other adult or at their own child.
This was not stating how you assume my children will turn out or for that matter making assumptions about me as a person? All I was trying to say is that to me obedience is simply our children listening to what we tell them and teach them ! If I tell them the reason something cannot be done and they understand I then expect them not to do it again! I never said I base everything on obedience alone or that I don't think they will continue to make mistakes. They are kids and I love them and continue to teach them! If you tell your child not to of something followed by a reason I assume Do you then wish them to listen to you?
post #46 of 73
My end result is not obedience and that alone it's that my children understand and do not continue the behavior/act whatever the situation is!
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeydef View Post

I ha
I have deleted my previous posts and again I said several times I did not agree with the husband so I don't know why you said I was supporting him! I stated several times I did not agree with him!!
This was not stating how you assume my children will turn out or for that matter making assumptions about me as a person? All I was trying to say is that to me obedience is simply our children listening to what we tell them and teach them ! If I tell them the reason something cannot be done and they understand I then expect them not to do it again! I never said I vas everything on obedience alone or that I don't think they will continue to make mistakes. They are kids and I love them and continue to teach them! If you tell your child not to of something followed by a reason I assume? Do you then wish them to listen to you?

 

Pretty much all kids disagree with their parents and tell them why. shrug.gif  It's just part of the fun of adolescents. It's nothing personal about your, specific children, rather a statement about the human condition.

 

You said that you expect your children to obey you and you got bent out of shape when people disagreed with you, so that wasn't much of an assumption on my part. 

 

I expect my kids to listen to themselves, and I do my best to make sure than they have some sense inside them. My goal isn't for them to do things because I told them to, but because of what they have inside themselves, their own desires for the best for their lives, and their understanding that the true measure of a person is how we treat others. But no, it was never my expectation as a parent that I would tell my kids what to do and they they would just listen to me and do it.

 

 

post #48 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post
 

I didn't pull that out of thin air.  Nor did I advocate for punishment.  If you've read around, I'm all for GD, I'm a PR (that would be positive reinforcement) dog trainer I have a very clear understanding of behavior.  I will absolutely advocate for the least invasive way of getting to a conclusion, mush as in your seatbelt example.  BUT if a family is choosing a particular method - time outs - I'm stating that they need to be done that same way in order to have the same meaning.  Time outs do no have to be demeaning or abusive and for some children are a viable option to control behavior....much like putting a dog in a crate or removing them to separate room for misbehavior - consistency and timing are key.  Time outs are identical in methodology for humans or animals.  The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change.  It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and they can come to a compromise.

 

I think the way her husband is doing the time out is essentially negative reinforcement. He withdraws positive attention until the child does what he wants, which is to sit still for a six-minute reprimand. The fact that he's had to do this more than one time says to me that this is not working for them. Can you imagine repeated six-minute lectures at age six? 

 

I don't think you're advocating that people raise their children in the way you train animals, though. Right? If we're talking about an ordinary, intelligent six-year-old human, he's capable of understanding reason and of wanting to demonstrate mastery over his environment. He doesn't require elaborate punishments or rewards to want to do this. He has language and can communicate his needs. You don't need to set up a consistent series of punishments in order to guide him through his day. You just have to talk to him, because he's a person. He might not have the cognitive sophistication that he's going to have in a couple of years, but he's capable of doing what kids are supposed to do. 

 

 

Another reason why I don't think it makes sense for the OP to follow her husband's lead with the time-outs is that most children have more than one adult in their lives and have to adjust to more than one disciplinary style. If they don't homeschool, he has teachers. (Well, even then, most homeschoolers do groups.) He has friends who have parents with different styles.

 

I don't think it's on the OP to change her parenting style and become more strict because her partner thinks parenting is a transaction in which he pays the child with affection for doing his work of acting respectful. 

post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

Pretty much all kids disagree with their parents and tell them why. shrug.gif   It's just part of the fun of adolescents. It's nothing personal about your, specific children, rather a statement about the human condition.

You said that you expect your children to obey you and you got bent out of shape when people disagreed with you, so that wasn't much of an assumption on my part. 

I expect my kids to listen to themselves, and I do my best to make sure than they have some sense inside them. My goal isn't for them to do things because I told them to, but because of what they have inside themselves, their own desires for the best for their lives, and their understanding that the true measure of a person is how we treat others. But no, it was never my expectation as a parent that I would tell my kids what to do and they they would just listen to me and do it.

So you don't expect your children to listen to you? So they can do whatever they want?
post #50 of 73
Again your not understanding what I'm saying! I'm not saying the goal is for them to listen just bc I told them to but bc I'm teaching them right from wrong! That is out job as parents to teach our children! I keep trying to explain myself but then you keep stating things I never said. So that is why I'm getting as you call it bent out of shape! Not bc you gave a different opinion than me but because you keep making statements that aren't true to what I said. Like I "defended the husband"
post #51 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeydef View Post

So you don't expect your children to listen to you? So they can do whatever they want?

 

 

Once children become adolescents and adults, you won't be there to tell them what to do all the time. They will be at school, and at their jobs, and at college, and in social situations without you. What I read her saying is that she's trying to get them to share her values about good behavior, not to obey, because she won't always be there to boss them around. 

 

Even a six-year-old goes off to school without Mommy and has to behave well on the playground and in the lunchroom without any adult direction. 

post #52 of 73
But this is the same thing I'm trying to say! I just look at the word obey as listening to your parent! Example: I told my oldest today many times not to pick up her baby brother bc one of them may get hurt. But she keeps doing it.. I expect her to listen or obey bc she is old enough to understand what I am saying. I'm teaching her self control and good decision making as well as what the consequences may be so she can make better choices when older or away from me.
post #53 of 73
Sorry OP for derailing your thread.
Edited by Nightwish - 12/8/13 at 11:37am
post #54 of 73
We could have been married to the same man. I was just like you. Please go with your heart and instinct. Please be careful. Please stand your ground. When I finally stood my ground and said we are NOT disciplining our son like this, I began finding bruises and handprints on my children and he began beating me and threatened to kill me in my sleep. Finally the cops dragged him off me one night with his hands around my neck and my screaming babies watching. You don't know who this man really is inside because you have no communication. Run fast honey. Please feel free to pm me.
post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeydef View Post

But this is the same thing I'm trying to say! I just look at the word obey as listening to your parent! Example: I told my oldest today many times not to pick up her baby brother bc one of them may get hurt. But she keeps doing it.. I expect her to listen or obey bc she is old enough to understand what I am saying. I'm teaching her self control and good decision making as well as what the consequences may be so she can make better choices when older or away from me.

I know this is veering slightly off-topic, and that I need to make a disclaimer here: I have one, exceedingly easy and compliant, child at home. 

 

It strikes me that "expecting obedience" (or let's say, compliance) from  your daughter when she's picking up her baby brother is not working for you. 

 

Obviously, you have to stop potentially dangerous behavior when it happens. I wonder whether you might get more compliance overall if you take time when the baby picking-up isn't happening to talk with her about why she wants to pick up the baby and what she could do instead. Mostly that behavior comes from positive motivations, like wanting to be helpful, wanting to express affection, or wanting to play with the baby. She could redirect those impulses to being helpful, affectionate or playful in ways that are safer. For her to play with the baby in a safe way will make him smarter! It's one of the benefits of being a younger sibling. 

 

You still will probably have to supervise, noodge and remind her. It's just that saying, "Don't pick up the baby! You could drop him!" is only part of the teachable moment. There's also this chance to communicate these other things. (Which for all I know, you're already doing--you just don't mention it.)  If you let her brainstorm the alternatives with you, it gives you a chance to show her how you redirect yourself. 

 

This is why I don't like the OP's husband's time-outs, by the way. The question, "Do you understand what you did wrong?" is horrible. It doesn't give the child any power to choose something positive. It only gives him power to stop doing something. All of the judgment of right and wrong lies with the parent. I mean, of course, there are always exceptional circumstances where someone needs a time out and a lecture. Some behaviors are too scarily dangerous! I just don't think this is the way forward to get ongoing good choices by the child.

 

The parent is not a commanding officer in the battle of life any more than he is the boss of the corporation of life, because a family is not an army or a business. 

post #56 of 73
Ok when I say baby he is 14 months fully mobile... Sorry if I confused anyone And I do supervise constantly, I was right next to them telling her to out him down when she did it!! that was once again not the point! I was giving an example which you still are not understanding!
post #57 of 73
I'm not asking your opinion on my parenting or even asking for your approval for that matter! I just simply wanted you to understand what obedience meant to me! I am not a drill sergeant who walks around saying "because I said so!" That is not what I mean. All I mean is that in certain instances where safety is involved and my children understand that it is a safety issue because it has been explained to them, then yes that to me requires their obedience! I also practice positive reinforcement and other gentle parenting techniques.
post #58 of 73
A
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post

I know this is veering slightly off-topic, and that I need to make a disclaimer here: I have one, exceedingly easy and compliant, child at home. 

It strikes me that "expecting obedience" (or let's say, compliance) from  your daughter when she's picking up her baby brother is not working for you. 

Obviously, you have to stop potentially dangerous behavior when it happens. I wonder whether you might get more compliance overall if you take time when the baby picking-up isn't happening to talk with her about why she wants to pick up the baby and what she could do instead. Mostly that behavior comes from positive motivations, like wanting to be helpful, wanting to express affection, or wanting to play with the baby. She could redirect those impulses to being helpful, affectionate or playful in ways that are safer. For her to play with the baby in a safe way will make him smarter! It's one of the benefits of being a younger sibling. 

You still will probably have to supervise, noodge and remind her. It's just that saying, "Don't pick up the baby! You could drop him!" is only part of the teachable moment. There's also this chance to communicate these other things. (Which for all I know, you're already doing--you just don't mention it.)  If you let her brainstorm the alternatives with you, it gives you a chance to show her how you redirect yourself. 

This is why I don't like the OP's husband's time-outs, by the way. The question, "Do you understand what you did wrong?" is horrible. It doesn't give the child any power to choose something positive. It only gives him power to stop doing something. All of the judgment of right and wrong lies with the parent. I mean, of course, there are always exceptional circumstances where someone needs a time out and a lecture. Some behaviors are too scarily dangerous! I just don't think this is the way forward to get ongoing good choices by the child.

The parent is not a commanding officer in the battle of life any more than he is the boss of the corporation of life, because a family is not an army or a business. 
and I have sat down and talked with her about it! But she is a young energetic child still learning self control who also wants to mother her baby brother at times!
post #59 of 73
You know this whole thing got so off topic so again I would like to respectfully leave this thread and I would like others to not quote what I've said so I stop getting emails. I deleted most of my earlier posts because I felt they were taken out of context! I will agree to disagree and move on! Have a great day!
post #60 of 73

 

 


Edited by Nightwish - 12/8/13 at 11:36am
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