Peanut oil in Vaccines causing massive peanut allergy? - Page 4

[pek64]

Don't *presume* they are being vaccinated and present that as evidence. Present facts!

[Rrrrrachel]

.3% of children in the us receive no vaccines. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/demographics-unvaccinated-children

.4-.6% of children have peanut allergies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_allergy

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by pek64 

Don't *presume* they are being vaccinated and present that as evidence. Present facts!

Good job of missing the point of my post and focusing on a technicality. Thanks, Rrrrachel, for handling that one. :)

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

.3% of children in the us receive no vaccines. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/demographics-unvaccinated-children

.4-.6% of children have peanut allergies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_allergy

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Good job of missing the point of my post and focusing on a technicality. Thanks, Rrrrachel, for handling that one.

The article in the clearly states that it is *estimated* that 3 children in one thousand had never beem vaxed. That does not include those who were being vaxed and vaccinating was stopped due to reaction.

[Rrrrrachel]

Right, but those kids aren't relevant here. If the number of kids with peanut allergies is higher than the number of completely unvaccinated kids, then kids with peanut allergies are getting vaccinated.

I've seen other estimates for peanut allergies as high as 1.4%, which just makes the case even stronger.

[pek64]

Wrong.

First, it has been suggested that exposure to one vaccination is needed to start the peanut allergy. If that's the case, then completely unvaxed and peanut allergic are mutually exclusive.

Second, even if exposure to a vaccine is not needed to trigger the allergy, there can be those that have received at least one vaccine (which may or may not have had a peanut growth medium), and are no longer (for whatever reason) be receiving vaccinations. The. 3% is not necessarily a subset of the. .4-.6%, as you are assuming.

Edited to add : The two sets may or may not intersect. There is insufficient information to make that determination, however.

Edited, again, to add : The two sets may, in fact, be mutually exclusive. Given the small sizes, it is very likely that they are mutually exclusive. More likely than intersecting.




And by the way, this was posted from my phone, as are *all* my posts.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Okay, so if peanut oil or some peanut derivative is in vaccines and it's sensitizing some kids, therefore causing peanut allergies, then how come kids who have peanut allergies can receive further vaccines without uniformly going into anaphylaxis? 

The point is that peanut oil derivatives are/were in SOME vaccines.  Nobody ever said that they were in all vaccines.  We don't know WHICH vaccines they were in, or even whether they are now in any vaccines, because the manufacturer is not required to list it as an ingredient.

Obviously, if a child receives a vaccine that contains a peanut oil derivative, develops a life-threatening allergy to peanuts, and then, two years later, receives a vaccine that does not contain a peanut oil derivative, that child is not likely to go into anaphylaxis from that vaccine.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

  Otherwise what's the point of posting here at all?.... 

I couldn't resist poking a little fun at pek's ridiculous post, 

This says it all.  Thanks for the clarification.  Nice to know you are treating pek with respect.  

Oh, wait, that's right, you were--and still are--mocking and belittling her.

Where are the mods????

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by pek64 

Wrong.

First, it has been suggested that exposure to one vaccination is needed to start the peanut allergy. If that's the case, then completely unvaxed and peanut allergic are mutually exclusive.

Second, even if exposure to a vaccine is not needed to trigger the allergy, there can be those that have received at least one vaccine (which may or may not have had a peanut growth medium), and are no longer (for whatever reason) be receiving vaccinations. The. 3% is not necessarily a subset of the. .4-.6%, as you are assuming.

Edited to add : The two sets may or may not intersect. There is insufficient information to make that determination, however.

Edited, again, to add : The two sets may, in fact, be mutually exclusive. Given the small sizes, it is very likely that they are mutually exclusive. More likely than intersecting.




And by the way, this was posted from my phone, as are *all* my posts.

If they're mutually exclusive that just makes it stronger evidence that kids with peanut allergies are getting vaccinated, pek.

[pek64]

For ease if typing, I am going to use whole numbers to demonstrate my point.

.3% is 3 in 1,000
.4% is 4 in 1,000
.6% is 6 in 1,000 and
1.4% is 14 in 1,000


For this hypothetical situation, there is a population of 1,000.
4 to 6 or 14 members are allergic to peanuts.
3 members have received 0 vaccinations.
1 member has received only 1 vaccination.
I could stop here. We have reached 4 members of the population, and all could be peanut allergic. It is equally possible that the one vaccinated member became allergic because of being exposed to peanut in the vaccination. Any reaction that occurred may or may not have been attributed to the vaccination.

Let's continue.
0 members received only 2 vaccinations.
2 members received only 3 vaccinations.
We have now reached 6 members of the population. Even if we assume all the rest are fully vaxed (which is unlikely), and these are all the ones allergic to peanuts, we have proven NOTHING.

Remember, we do not KNOW which vaccines are grown using peanut BECAUSE IT IS NO LONGER DOCUMENTED.



Also, even if there is some no overlap of the two groups, shock occurs because of a histamine response in the mouth, nose and throat, caused by eating or breathing the allergen, causing the airway to swell shut. What would happen to the allergen being injected? A histamine response at the site and the area where the allergen is being spread. In other words, SWELLING AT THE VACCINATION SITE. Not shock.

[Rrrrrachel]

Pek you asked for documentation people with peanut allergies get vaccinated. You got it. End of story. What in the world are you talking about now?

[Rrrrrachel]

Where is the documentation that they don't have to say if they use peanut oil or not?

[pek64]

This is the post that started our discussion about peanut allergies and vaccinated people, Rrrrrachel.

Originally Posted by erigeron 

 That sure is convenient that so many peanut-allergic kids, from this population that is frequently *so* allergic that they can go into full-blown anaphylactic shock from an exposure as mild as (for example) eating a sugar cookie that was briefly placed on top of a peanut butter cookie, somehow don't have any reaction or no particularly strong reaction to vaccines even when they were sensitized by vaccines. If peanut-allergic kids, as a group, reacted to vaccines at even a tenth of the rate that they react to peanuts/peanut derivatives/food that briefly contacted peanuts, then you'd really think we'd hear more about it. What with there being so many kids who are allergic to peanuts, most of whom are presumably still vaccinated regularly. 

In addition, the link you provided ESTIMATED the percentage of unvaxed at 3 out of a thousand. If it is 4, then you have no point.


All of this is interesting, but I haven't been feeling well, and need to move on to other things.

[Rrrrrachel]

So you've been insisting the two groups didn't overlap, but now you're saying they do?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Pek you asked for documentation people with peanut allergies get vaccinated. You got it. End of story. What in the world are you talking about now?

I did not see any such documentation.   Would you mind reposting it, if you actually did post it?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Where is the documentation that they don't have to say if they use peanut oil or not?

The vaccine manufacturers don't have to declare peanut derivatives or any other food prodcut since vaccines are not a food.  They are not required to disclose all the ingredients of vaccines, nor ingredients used in processing but considered inactive, because these are considered trade secrets.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Again, eating a food substance won't cause anaphlactic shock. YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN SENSITIZED THROUGH INJECTION FIRST. Yes, I am shouting in exasperation. 

If this is the case how do you explain how children who have never been vaccinated having peanut allergies.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

So you've been insisting the two groups didn't overlap, but now you're saying they do?

Rrrrachel, is English your first language?   Perhaps there is communication difficulty here?  I thought Pek64 was very clear in stating that,

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek64 


Edited to add : The two sets may or may not intersect. There is insufficient information to make that determination, however.
 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

If this is the case how do you explain how children who have never been vaccinated having peanut allergies.

I don't think she's saying that only people who have been vaccinated have food allergies.  I think she was making the point that some children develop peanut allergies and other food allergies because of vaccines, and was trying to explain how vaccines were the initial trigger in THOSE PARTICULAR CASES, not in every case.

I gotta say, none of the unvaxed kids I know have food allergies at all, but that doesn't prove that vaccines are the only cause of food allergies, or that unvaxed kids can't have food allergies, etc.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

The vaccine manufacturers don't have to declare peanut derivatives or any other food prodcut since vaccines are not a food.  They are not required to disclose all the ingredients of vaccines, nor ingredients used in processing but considered inactive, because these are considered trade secrets.

Could you please document that. The ingredients listed on the CDC web page are quite extensive and include food products such as egg protein.