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More Americans believe Jews responsible - Page 2

post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hm, I didn't mean to make this into another Passion thread. My POV is, the tenor of attitudes in the world in general and US specifically is: fundamentalism, literalism is on the increase, at the same time as other people are leaving "liberal" Xtian churches in droves. Seems liberal Xtians are just getting disgusted with being lumped in with "righteous" literalists and would rather just give Xtianity a pass and become atheist, agnostic or join some other non-Xtian religious group.

Bishop Spong has done a lot of research into this problem and is well worth reading.

He feels the upsurge of fundamentalism is kind of a last gasp of a dying breed. He points to the feminism of the 20th and 21st centuries fighting the patriarchy as being a root cause of the new direction Xtianity is taking.

He predicts the US will have a woman president in 25 yrs or less, and the Catholic Church will allow female clergy in 10 yrs.

Pertinent books:

Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism

Why Christianity Must Change or Die

A New Christianity for a New World : Why Traditional Faith is Dying & How a New Faith is Being Born


Karen Armstrong's s Battle for God and A History of Godalso address this issue.

review of Battle on amazon:

Quote:
About 40 years ago popular opinion assumed that religion would become a weaker force and people would certainly become less zealous as the world became more modern and morals more relaxed. But the opposite has proven true, according to theologian and author Karen Armstrong (A History of God), who documents how fundamentalism has taken root and grown in many of the world's major religions, such as Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Even Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, and Confucianism have developed fundamentalist factions. Reacting to a technologically driven world with liberal Western values, fundamentalists have not only increased in numbers, they have become more desperate, claims Armstrong, who points to the Oklahoma City bombing, violent anti-abortion crusades, and the assassination of President Yitzak Rabin as evidence of dangerous extremes.
Yet she also acknowledges the irony of how fundamentalism and Western materialism seem to urge each other on to greater excesses.
post #22 of 30
Quote:
I'd like to see a movie about the Spanish Inquisition.
Me too!!

now that I would go see
post #23 of 30
Can I ask a question that sounds irrelevant, but it isn't?



How many here posting have heard of the hate crimes against Muslims in the US in the year following 9/11? All of us, right? And we all felt pretty awful about it, I know.

In that period, there were 400+ hate crimes against Muslims in the US.

During that exact same period, how many here posting heard any press about hate crimes against Jews in the US? Maybe one or two here or there, right?

Well, in that exact same period, there were 1,000+ ... yes, over one thousand ... hate crimes against Jews in the US. And since the population of Muslims in the US has surpassed the number of Jews, that's statistically more hate crimes per person per Jew, if you get my drift.






So. Are they not being reported? Or are they so much more common that it's under the radar screen?





Is every racist hate crime against African Americans in the US reported? No. Obviously. We'd be overwhelmed, with no room in the press for any other news stories, probably.




And BTW, in NYC there have been quite a few more. Anecdotal evidence ... including my own experiences with nastiness from strangers ... is that it's up. Way up. Since 2004 began.



And I don't blame His Holiness Sir Mel. He's just of a piece with it all ...
post #24 of 30
Thread Starter 
I also mentioned Pat Robertson, meaning to include others of his ilk, like Falwell, and the Grahams, pere et fils.

Name your televangelist.

Gibson's movie is a symptom, not a cause, of anti-Semitism and the rise of fundamentalism. (As Armstrong and Spong elucidate.)

Oddly, fundamentalism is breaking down the Catholic/Protestant enmity.

"Fascinating." (Spock raises eyebrow)

playdoh said:

Quote:
Thankfully, there is also an uprising (and Ron Howard film!) going on in the US, liberating some minds from the literalism chains. I'm very excited about that.
The Da Vinci Code (on which Howard's movie will be based) has been on the best seller list for what, 1 1/2 yrs or something? People are thinking for themselves, questioning. It is healthy.

Elzabet said:

Quote:
I don't get it and I never will. I don't see how anyone who actually read the book can come away from it (or the movie for that matter) with the idea that a specific group of people were responsible for Jesus' death.
Most people who ID as Xtian have not read the book. They have been exposed to certain verses and stories, as interpreted from the pulpit.

Scenario

Pastor: (in a convincing tone) This is what we believe, flock.

Congregation: (thinking of literal hellfire and the football game later) Amen.

Or they may not have been exposed to much of anything, except for maybe at Xmas and Easter, never really think about God or Jesus or the good news, but just call themsleves Xtian by default.

The above would not apply to anyone on this board or thread. If you didn't care, you would not be reading or posting here.
post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally posted by merpk
So. Are they not being reported? Or are they so much more common that it's under the radar screen?
Thank you, Amy. That's exactly the point I was trying to make.
post #26 of 30
Quote:
... by DaryLLL
... Gibson's movie is a symptom, not a cause, of anti-Semitism and the rise of fundamentalism ...

(though wishing that little nodding guy was frowning)

That is absolutely correct, IMNSVHO.
post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally posted by playdoh
indie, I never said someone had no right to believe anything they choose. Not sure where you might have got that but I never wrote that.
I know you didn't mean it that way. Sorry about the way I worded it.

Quote:
Originally posted by DaryLLL Most people who ID as Xtian have not read the book. They have been exposed to certain verses and stories, as interpreted from the pulpit.
Unfortunately this is true.

Merpk: I know I'm asking this just before the Sabbath so I won't get an answer for a while, but could you give us more info. about where you got your stats. I'm not questioning their veracity, I'm just interested.





Sometimes hate crimes aren't reported to the police because the police are the ones doing it. My brother has been a victim of police prejudice more times than I can count. But that's kind of off topic.
post #28 of 30
I'm unable to link this article. Sorry about the length!

mod note - here's the link, I have snipped the article
click here for the entire article
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


James Caviezel and director Mel Gibson on the set of "The Passion of the Christ."
Mel Gibson: Arab world messiah
"The Passion" sells out theaters, spreads through $1 bootlegs, and fuels more claims of Jewish villainy.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Michelle Goldberg

April 6, 2004 | AMMAN, Jordan -- Mel Gibson's "The Passion" has been playing on four screens at the Mecca Mall here for nearly three weeks, but the front desk employee at my hotel still suggested that I get to the theater an hour early to buy tickets for a Sunday evening show. She had seen it the night before in a sold-out theater and pronounced it "really amazing."

....

At the theater, Amin was enthusing about Gibson-inspired transcendence. "A lot of Muslims come to see what Christians think about the Christ," she said. "When Christians watch this movie, a lot of them come out crying. This film is very important to a lot of people. This film is making history."

Is it making people angrier with the Jews?

"Yeah," she said. "Yes, of course."
post #29 of 30
Just some random thoughts:

It is too true that many people who identify themselves as Christians haven't "read the book" and have been exposed to selected verses interpreted from the pulpit - maybe I am just sensitive tonight, but let's remember that the problem here is that people keep their exposure limited, not necessarily that any interpretation coming from a pulpit is automatically a bad thing(although I know a lot of it is!). There is some good preaching and educating going on in some churches, but many people want the easy way, not the thinking, wrestling with truth and ideas way. My husband is a church minister and there are people who do not like being told to think! Thay want him to tell them what to think, especially on Christmas and Easter when the church is full. Boy does it bother them when he doesn't co-operate:LOL Oops - DaryLLL, I just re-read your post and see you addressed that. I really should go to bed.

Please tell me it isn't true about Gibson making a film about Francis of Assisi. What will he do this time?

I totally agree about the rise of fundamentalism being a major issue today - and I find it ironic how the fundamentalists are saying that the liberals are taking control of the world. Sigh. Is there any hope for peace?

And why are people so anxious to say "show me the numbers" in regards to anti-Semitism? Are they really just asking for proof that it even exists? Don't they get it?

Really, I want to know - is there any hope for peace on this planet?
post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantimama
Oops - DaryLLL, I just re-read your post and see you addressed that. I really should go to bed.
Heh.

Quote:
Please tell me it isn't true about Gibson making a film about Francis of Assisi. What will he do this time?
Did a google on it. google, it's a good thing.

The Franciscan Friars have started a petition to Mel to ask him to do it. That's it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4790630/

Quote:
Really, I want to know - is there any hope for peace on this planet?
I feel your pain. It comes from within, peace.
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