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Gender Disappointment / Expectation? - Page 7

post #121 of 158
Serafina, I should have spoken up -- but was not enjoying the discussion, and didn't want to jump into that debate.
(Edited to add that I also felt many comments were judgmental, and was very uncomfortable with that. I do not argue that they were intended to be so, but that they came across that way.)

In any case, I completely understand your feelings about having a daughter. My first is a girl, and I cannot express how delightful I find her. I look back now, and it seems impossible to me that I was ever disappointed that she was a girl (I had a strong boy feeling, boy dreams and could not get the idea that I should have a boy first out of my head -- I grew up with a big brother and that's the order I expected for my kids). But my DD is an amazing little human being -- bright and funny and sooo opinionated! I love her in a way that alarms me with its intensity. She takes up so much of my heart, and I deeply hope she and I will be really close, good friends for the rest of my life.
In fact, this time around, I was disappointed that this baby is a boy! I was sure it was a girl, and have really had to wrap my mind around it. I had all these fantasies of my two girls playing together and being such sweet sisters to one another, and now it's going to be a very different experience.
That doesn't mean I don't look forward to his arrival, and to getting to know my son (!! That word seems fraught with meaning !!), but it's not what I had pictured. I am certain it will be beautiful, just different.
Edited by cmu204 - 4/19/13 at 7:38pm
post #122 of 158

serafina, i'm sorry it seems like you felt personally attacked by me. i didn't think anything i said was out of line with the rest of the tone of this conversation.

 

my post was meant to be part of a friendly, though admittedly difficult, dialogue, that seemed to already be unfolding.

 

that being said, some of us who have a special interest in gender issues, myself included, do actually see harm happening to people when we read about assumptions as broad and important as their future parenthood/reproductive choices being assumed based on genitals. 

 

however, i completely understand that this is a space where we can have and respect different parenting values and choices-- i was led to believe based on the previous posts that we were offering insight on how those values influenced our feelings on gender disappointment and expectation. 

 

since you clearly are not up for hearing that insight, i agree, as i said earlier, that separate threads would be ideal. but given the previous tone of the conversation, and the fact that i agreed we should separate the threads once it became obvious where it was going, i don't think i needed to be passive aggressively called out as if my comments were inappropriate.

post #123 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serafina33 View Post

That is an excellent idea.  Those who have strong theories might love a debate on another thread.  Those of us who wish to happily daydream about future children can enjoy discussing their private fantasies and thoughts here, without feeling like they are being told what sorts of fantasies are acceptable and which "are important to try to let go of."  

Those who have such strong theories about what gender means and doesn't mean, as it relates to raising children, can enjoy a thread titled something like, "Does Gender Really Exist?"  or "How much do our own gender stereotypes affect our kids?"  or something like that.  

Thank you so much Jennyanydots, swissmiss, and Livingsky heartbeat.gif for making me feel better about opening up and having expressed that I'd love to have a daughter someday.  I was starting to feel all alone in believing that there is something wonderful and special about daughters, and certainly at least a potential for something beautiful to be had in a mother/daughter relationship  (which DOES NOT take away anything from how much us mommies adore our sons to the moon and back!).  love.gif

Serafina33 - I've been following this thread as I found it interesting to hear the different points of view but didn't really have anything to add. It sure did appear to get heated (which is fine for some but clearly uncomfortable for others and I think it's a little uncool to pass judgement when people are just expressing their feelings - we're all different, right?). I want to add that I think it's awesome you have such a wonderful relationship with your mom (I am the same way and hope to one day have the same bond if I ever have a daughter and I don't think that there is anything wrong with that:) Daydream as you wish:D

post #124 of 158

Thank you SuzieSmiles and cmu204!  love.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bexsd View Post
  i don't think i needed to be passive aggressively called out  

If you are willing to tell another mother publicly that you feel that know better than she about the hopes in her heart, and that you as can pinpoint exactly which part of her daydreams (about what her future might look like a generation forward) are important to try to get rid of---and now you're saying they are flat out harmful to my children (and "my mind shut off to any insight"--how condescending)-- then be prepared for feathers to be ruffled and the statements not to be interpreted as all that friendly.  It seems clear that many others also found it a bit uncool to pass judgment like that, and were alienated from the conversation.  

 

Maybe you should have some insight about whether that's very constructive, and take a bit more tactful approach next time and espouse your theories only generally, as others managed to  do a little bit better, and avoid directly condemning anyone's feelings which don't align with your thoughts, especially in a support group like a DDC and in a thread specifically for those who have feelings about gender hopes & disappointment to openly share them without judgment.

post #125 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serafina33 View Post

Thank you SuzieSmiles and cmu204!  love.gif

If you are willing to tell another mother publicly that you feel that know better than she about the hopes in her heart, and that you as can pinpoint exactly which part of her daydreams (about what her future might look like a generation forward) are important to try to get rid of---and now you're saying they are flat out harmful to my children (and "my mind shut off to any insight"--how condescending)-- then be prepared for feathers to be ruffled and the statements not to be interpreted as all that friendly.  It seems clear that many others also found it a bit uncool to pass judgment like that, and were alienated from the conversation.  

 

Maybe you should have some insight about whether that's very constructive, and take a bit more tactful approach next time and espouse your theories only generally, as others managed to  do a little bit better, and avoid directly condemning anyone's feelings which don't align with your thoughts, especially in a support group like a DDC and in a thread specifically for those who have feelings about gender hopes & disappointment to openly share them without judgment.

 

If you go back to our original interaction, I really did try to generalize my theories. (despite my use of "are" instead of our--ignore that, hehe.) I said I think and our children, specifically with the intention of making it clear that it was not just about you or this situation I was talking about it, and that I was expressing a belief and not a fact. 

 

In fact, the person you spoke with just before me, was much more direct-- saying "But part of it is going to be your responsibility in being aware of your own expectations/prejudices regarding typical gender relationships." She didn't qualify with "I think" or "I believe" and was talking to you about your situation specifically.

 

This is part of why I mentioned in my latest comment that I was sorry you had interpreted my comments as specifically hurtful, when it seemed like exactly the tone of the conversation.

 

You are right. I should not have implied that you are harming your child by your thoughts and dreams about him or her. It was an attempt to explain why I feel so passionately about this issue, but it came out wrong. Maybe in the debate thread, I will think of a better way of articulating that. 

post #126 of 158

You're right, you weren't the only one passing judgment based on my comments.  Perhaps I shouldn't have posted my thoughts about mothers/daughters if I didn't want them and my social values critiqued, anyhow.  Learned my lesson. 

All is forgiven.

post #127 of 158

I will bow out of the conversation here, my last post was meant to let Serafina know that it was never my intention to make her feel uncomfortable (I believe I apologized for where it ended up going) , and I am absolutely interested in keeping things respectful and civilized.  My first post was a response to the thread in general, specifically the gender disappointment piece, and Serafina responded to what I said, (not the other way around) and that is where the debate began.  I suppose it did get heated, and it is always difficult when people are speaking about things that are really important to them..whether it be wanting a son/daughter or not wanting sex to create gender expectations.  My only intention was to add some (perhaps alternative) thoughts on the subject, again, based on the title of the thread.  My comments came with a disclaimer that said they were my opinions, not intended to offend anyone.  It did not seem like the wrong place to post it at the time, but I agree that it could have moved to another thread earlier on.  I do encourage all of us to think about and consider all opinions, because we learn every time we are exposed to a new perspective.  At least I always do.

post #128 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serafina33 View Post

 

I'm sorry I came across as defensive, and certainly regret expressing that I think it would be amazing to have a daughter one day, as I guess I came across as being entirely genitals-obsessed and the type of parent who will completely pigeon-hole their children based on gender and overlook and undervalue her sweet sons altogether, in a quest to birth a daughter.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and my response to you was mine. See below. I thought we were having a great discussion and certainly no animosity was implied on my part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bexsd View Post

 

If you go back to our original interaction, I really did try to generalize my theories. (despite my use of "are" instead of our--ignore that, hehe.) I said I think and our children, specifically with the intention of making it clear that it was not just about you or this situation I was talking about it, and that I was expressing a belief and not a fact. 

 

In fact, the person you spoke with just before me, was much more direct-- saying "But part of it is going to be your responsibility in being aware of your own expectations/prejudices regarding typical gender relationships." She didn't qualify with "I think" or "I believe" and was talking to you about your situation specifically.

That statement in no way was meant to imply that that doesn't apply to myself. I was being specific and addressing you as I was responding directly to your post.

 

Just felt like that needed clarification. I was enjoying the discussion and didn't mean to put you on the defensive.

post #129 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakipode View Post

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and my response to you was mine. See below. I thought we were having a great discussion and certainly no animosity was implied on my part.

That statement in no way was meant to imply that that doesn't apply to myself. I was being specific and addressing you as I was responding directly to your post.

 

Just felt like that needed clarification. I was enjoying the discussion and didn't mean to put you on the defensive.

 

I just want to clarify, too, that I was in no way saying I felt you were being inappropriate either, dakipode. It seemed like people were enjoying the conversation, even in response to you, which is why I felt it was ok to comment the way I did. I was just pointing out an example of why I felt my post was ok. 

 

I'm glad we seem to have come to a civil conclusion with this, though, and hope we can move on. 

post #130 of 158

i haven't read all the last posts in depth. it's too bad feelings were hurt, but keep in mind misunderstandings are easy on a forum where you don't hear a tone of voice and don't know HOW a person means their comments. i believe no one here intended to offend, but it seems like people apologized so i'm hoping we can continue this thread. 

i personally was enjoying the discussion, but someone suggested moving the gender discussion that goes beyond our personal hopes / expectations to another thread. even though to me these are not separate, but related topics, i think that probably a good idea. group hug!!

post #131 of 158
Thread Starter 
For those who have not seen them, there are two new threads going- one for lighthearted discussion of our expectations and one for more weighty debate.
post #132 of 158

I have found myself unexpectedly extremely disappointed that I'm having another girl and not a boy. My DH is adamant about only having 2 kids, and has no desire for more. And frankly, given how miserable I am being pregnant, I don't want to have more either. I know I will love her to itty bitty bits when I FINALLY meet her, but I just can't seem to get over that stumbling block.


Edited by devilish - 4/27/13 at 11:34am
post #133 of 158
I'm also disappointed that I'm having a girl. I'm sure it'll change once she's here... I just never saw myself raising a girl. I've always been a tom boy who got along with guys way better than girls. I'm terrified.
post #134 of 158
Thread Starter 
Devilish & CDsMom, I'm sorry you're feeling that way. Before my materniT21 results said boy I felt sort of neutral about this baby's gender, but if I find out at my 20 week us that it is not a boy, I know I will be disappointed and have to readjust my expectations.

Devilish, how old is your dd? My older two are girls, 25 months apart, and watching their relationship develop has been one of the greatest joys of my life. They are best friends now in their teens, and they were as littles, too. I hope your daughters will have a similar relationship.
post #135 of 158
I 100% only feel this way because I am terrified I won't have a good relationship with her. I'm afraid we won't have anything in common and that she won't come to me for anything because I just don't get it... I don't understand girls and the way they think. I don't get the drama, gossip, need to be plastic, make up, shopping, any of it. I never have.
But on the other hand, it might be totally fine. I'm just afraid of failing her as a mother.
post #136 of 158
Aww, CDsMom/Devilish, come on over to the Friendly Daydream thread. We will hold your hands and talk you both down. smile.gif
post #137 of 158

DD1 will be just shy of 3 when DD2 will be born. DD1 was born Oct. 20, and this babe is due Sept. 20. I really hope they are close, but they are no guarantees. I, too, am terrified of raising girls. I'm not particularly girly, and my mother wasn't someone I looked up to as a teenager. In fact, I viewed her as a template of what NOT to be like. So I really don't know what it's like to have a close, mother-daughter bond. But these are new lives, and new chances and I look forward to seeing what it beholds, I simply mourn the son that will never be.

post #138 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilish View Post
I'm not particularly girly, and my mother wasn't someone I looked up to as a teenager.
I simply mourn the son that will never be.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDsMom1031 View Post
I'm afraid we won't have anything in common and that she won't come to me for anything because I just don't get it... I don't understand girls and the way they think. I don't get the drama, gossip, need to be plastic, make up, shopping, any of it. I never have.

Isn't that exactly what we've been talking about: girly/boyish behavior and gender expectations? You are both women and fine human beings at that, why do we have to be girly?

I understand the fear of not being enough but it doesn't have to be gender specific.

post #139 of 158

I'm dissatisfied with my own feelings about the whole thing. We struggled so hard (not as hard some, hats off to those who had to go through far more painful procedures) to finally get pregnant, and suddenly it's not good enough because she's not a boy. Really, feelings? REALLY? Well, F you, feelings! I will celebrate this child for being the much sought after child she will be, instead of being unhappy in the gender she isn't.

post #140 of 158
Devilish, there is not a thing wrong with your feelings! You had a particular vision of how this would go, and it isn't going that way -- nothing wrong with acknowledging the loss of that dream. You will adapt, and I bet you will love her just as fiercely as I love mine.

CD, I think dakipode is spot on here: while there may be societal expectations of how girls/women are "supposed" to be and act, I say screw that. I am sure you can raise your girls to be who they are without fear and without apology. They don't have to buy into mainstream society's BS.
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