Parents' levels of immunity vs. their DCs'

[thispathisme]

I was reading a thread in the INV forum and just had this thought that I wanted to share.

I've been slightly uncomfortable with the fact that my DCs are not vaccinated, especially lately as family members have been making comments and discussions about immunizations have occurred and my kids are the only ones unvaccinated - which really makes me question myself, because I haven't done the research yet to back myself up.

In any case, I just had this moment of, wth. Why am I expected to vaccinate my kids? Are ANY of these adults that I'm having conversations with IRL aware of their levels of immunity for each of these VADs or know of which vaccines they've had? I wonder how many people who are vaccinating their DCs know of their own status. And for those who don't know - IRL, I would bet that would be almost everyone that I know, what IS the reason that they are vaccinating their DCs?

I'd assume they do it with hopes of avoiding the disease, some may do it to with the idea in mind that they're helping to keep these diseases from spreading.. so of it is SO important for their kids to be vaccinated, why aren't adults making sure they're up to date as well?

What about you? If you're vaccinating your DCs, do you know your own vax status? Are you getting all the shots to catch up?

I have no idea what immunity I have to these VADs, though I was vaccinated on schedule as a child. Why the heck am I even worried about my kids not being vaccinated when I have no idea of my own levels of immunity.

[chickabiddy]

I am up to date on vaccines.  My daughter is as well and will continue to be, with the possible exception of Gardasil.
 

[Rrrrrachel]

I am up to date, but I haven't run titers or anything. In terms of spreading disease, there are several studies that show vaccinating children makes a difference in infection rates of all ages, regardless of the vaccine status of adults. So is not for nothing that there's so much focus on vaccinating kids.

[prosciencemum]

I had to check all of this when I got a visa to move to the US and again when I got a Greencard. American's really like to check this stuff it seems (PS. my husband did the inverse of this when we moved to the UK, and I don't recall any medical information being part of that). 

[serenbat]

We (DH & I) are not up-to-date, nor is our DS (completely free) and only one person we know that is up-to-date - a child and this child is the most sickly child we have ever known. All family, all friends, co-workers, etc are not.

I have posted this prior- cost is a huge factor (with adults) - most are not covered by their insurance, have auto-immune issues, cancer, prior reactions, etc, or are elderly and Medicare only will pay for 3 vacs - the children we know are also (with only one exception) also not fully vaced, having had reactions, or never had any. 

The more I speak about it (IRL) the more I learn of ones that are not vacing. I am finding that more and more know of children that have had reactions and adults that have spoken about medical conditions and their choices not to vac themselves or their children- no longer odd anymore. Some even work in daycare and are teachers, even a few in the medical fields. It no longer is a closet issue, more and more people are talking about it.

I know only one that got a flu vaccine this year (that one child is the only one- parents didn't-he's always sick so it's hard to tell if he had flu or not) and I know no one that got the flu either.

In my area they only run free flu clinics and not for others. We actually make the flu vaccine in my area and I know people who have worked at the facility and they don't even vac.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I imagine (hope) that most of the people who would villainize parents and children who are not vaccinated on the grounds that it makes society less protected would be up to date on vaccines for the entire family.

I'm not one of those people so I know you aren't talking to me but I've looked into my own status recently. I know the pertussis issue is hotly debated but it's one that I decided to get it for myself before I got it for my child. I suppose when/if I get her MMR I will look again into my titers. 

[Rrrrrachel]

I don't think it's right to villainize people on either side of the issue, but I have to say the old chestnut of "all the vaccinated kids I know are so sickly" is really tiresome. I don't think it's any more accurate or worthwhile an opinion than blaming all disease outbreaks on unvaccinated children.

The vast majority of kids are vaccinated on schedule or reasonably close to it (or at the very least caught up by school age).

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Did the OP allude to that?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Oh, I see...a PP

[rachelsmama]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I am up to date, but I haven't run titers or anything. In terms of spreading disease, there are several studies that show vaccinating children makes a difference in infection rates of all ages, regardless of the vaccine status of adults. So is not for nothing that there's so much focus on vaccinating kids.

Considering that immunity doesn't seem to last as long as it used to for some of the popular immunisations (like mumps, rubella and pertussis), I wonder if the impact of focusing on vaccinating children is shrinking.

And on topic, I know my ummunity status for some stuff, don't care about my status for some other things, and really need to talk to my doctor about updating one thing.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I don't think it's right to villainize people on either side of the issue, but I have to say the old chestnut of "all the vaccinated kids I know are so sickly" is really tiresome. I don't think it's any more accurate or worthwhile an opinion than blaming all disease outbreaks on unvaccinated children.

The vast majority of kids are vaccinated on schedule or reasonably close to it (or at the very least caught up by school age).

Yeah, and 54% of them are chronically sick.

[prosciencemum]

Mirzam can you help me understand what numbers on the plot you shared add up to 54%? 

I assume kids can fall into multiple categories on that plot? Are the numbers percents? What's the original source (I'd like to read more about where the data is from). 

This is totally off topic, but I find it shocking that up to 43.2% of children (10-17) are overweight/obese. I assume no-one here would blame that on vaccines?

 I really think poor diet (too much processed food at HFCS) is so much more likely to blame for the poor health of children than vaccines. I think I've said it before, but I bet the processed food companies are laughing their socks off over the flack vaccines get for chronic health problems which are so much more likely down to their own low moral standards and wish for high profits (putting profits before health - see recent New York Times magazine article about that).  

[Mirzam]

PSM here is a quote directly from the study

Quote:

An estimated 43% of US children (32 million) currently have at least 1 of 20 chronic health conditions assessed, increasing to 54.1% when overweight, obesity, or being at risk for developmental delays are included; 19.2% (14.2 million) have conditions resulting in a special health care need, a 1.6 point increase since 2003.

[prosciencemum]

Oh I see - the quote was a link to the study where the figure is from. Sorry I missed that. :) 

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

I bet the processed food companies are laughing their socks off over the flack vaccines get for chronic health problems which are so much more likely down to their own low moral standards and wish for high profits (putting profits before health - see recent New York Times magazine article about that).  

I agree with you here, but I would like to add the government agencies, pharmaceutical companies, Monsanto, etc. to the list. (Since there is a problem with revolving door politics, I consider government and large corporations one in the same.) I have no faith in the moral standards of any of these organizations, which is one reason why I don't trust their recommendations on vaccines, nutrition, disease management, etc.

I know you don't believe in the "Big Pharma" theory, but it seems you might believe in the "Big Food" theory? Where food corporations knowingly use unhealthy ingredients in their food, putting profits before health? Food corporations with low moral standards, yes?

If you do, then I would like to ask you to research Monsanto, GMO dangers, and Monsanto in US Government. There are good reasons why I have no faith in the entire system, since everything is connected (food, pharma, and the government regulatory agencies.) I recently posted a quick video showing Monsanto's control over the media, and how the media is not legally required to tell the truth. So, add media to my ever-expanding list!

Just want to add: I'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative at all, not this time lol! I really do want more people to learn about this, because I don't know how else anything is going to change otherwise.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I don't think it's right to villainize people on either side of the issue, but I have to say the old chestnut of "all the vaccinated kids I know are so sickly" is really tiresome. I don't think it's any more accurate or worthwhile an opinion than blaming all disease outbreaks on unvaccinated children.

The vast majority of kids are vaccinated on schedule or reasonably close to it (or at the very least caught up by school age).

I would agree if this is a common thing to toss about that I would find it tiresome too. Folks taking one person they know and extrapolating some sort of meaning from that is also a little difficult to discuss.  In the chart that Mirzam quoted above, I think a lot of those issues are not what anyone would describe as "sickly".  

I wonder if folks who don't vaccinate have had a much different experience in the NFL community as I have had. I actually feel as though I see a higher number of things like allergies, sensitivities and other more unusual health problems within the NFL world. I've never thought that NFL was the cause but more that's where a lot of people like me turn when they experience health problems. No point really other than to remark that I'm surprised that those who don't vaccinate/in the NFL community feel like those people are especially healthy because that hasn't been my experience. 

Again, not a causation  thing. I definitely think that kids who are sensitive or who have sensitive parents and would benefit greatly from avoiding or delaying some vaccinations. I also think NFL is good for all people and is perhaps especially important for those with healthy problems, which is why I think I see so many of those people in the NFL communities where I have lived.

 

[Rrrrrachel]

I agree with you on a lot of that. We have a lot of reliable objective information about various things like mom santos behavior and gmos. Meanwhile, vaccines are subject to more scrutiny than all of that, and yet there's far less evidence of harm (IMO). Cause for suspicion is not the same thing as guilty.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Just want to add: I'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative at all, not this time lol! I really do want more people to learn about this, because I don't know how else anything is going to change otherwise.

Cross posted BB but I tried to follow the gmo bill in CA this past election. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

Folks taking one person they know and extrapolating some sort of meaning from that is also a little difficult to discuss.

I know this is being directed at me and OT really because I did not lump all children into a category - when I used the word "sickly" I mean it as a child who was on antibiotics more than 2 dozen times just within two years of life, misses every holiday/birthday because "they have a cold", constantly on antibiotics for ear, nose and throat issues, and this child I am referring to is not over weight, has no allergies, asthma, no delays and the family thinks this is just normal for a growing child-I view missing 30 plus days a year from school with these "condition" as sickly. It's the only one I know who is fully vaced for everything that you can get in the US- I put it down as personal reference as to people within my immediate circle who I have contact with and know the vac history of.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Ok, Serenebat. I just don't tend to think like that. I know one 2 pack a day smoker who lived till he was 92.   I still aint gonna start smokin'