How much of your financial situation/choices should impact others? - Page 6

[LoveOurBabies]

I wanted to add that it's not that I don't believe in reporting genuine cases of neglect and abuse - I do!!!! Dear god, I hope no one is thinking that I believe abuse should go unchecked. I'm the first to cry over any news of children being hurt or abused. It's something close to my heart.

I just think claims that are unsubstantiated should go unreported only because CPS can get crazy for no reason. Lives really do get turned upside down for no good reason and it's not fair to put families through this if you're not 100% sure that there are actual issues. If I suspect abuse and I'd like to make a report, I will *ensure* abuse is actually going on, i.e. I've seen it with my own eyes or heard it with my own ears. Not what my child reports is going on. That's a start but that shouldn't be the basis of my claim.

If this little girl had come over and complained that her dad never let her eat, kept them in the dark even though they were crying scared or anything else that seemed abusive, then I'd look into it a little further by asking her more questions.. and paying her mom a visit. Children are great storytellers - What may be a non issue in general, can be something quite big to a child because they lack perspective.

P.S I know the OP didn't report anything to CPS, but rather to the school counsellor. A counsellor is a mandatory reporter though, so they're really not that far away.

[serenbat]

Quote:

I wanted to add that it's not that I don't believe in reporting genuine cases of neglect and abuse - I do!!!! Dear god, I hope no one is thinking that I believe abuse should go unchecked. I'm the first to cry over any news of children being hurt or abused. It's something close to my heart.

I just think claims that are unsubstantiated should go unreported only because CPS can get crazy for no reason. Lives really do get turned upside down for no good reason and it's not fair to put families through this if you're not 100% sure that there are actual issues. If I suspect abuse and I'd like to make a report, I will *ensure* abuse is actually going on, i.e. I've seen it with my own eyes or heard it with my own ears. Not what my child reports is going on. That's a start but that shouldn't be the basis of my claim.

If this little girl had come over and complained that her dad never let her eat, kept them in the dark even though they were crying scared or anything else that seemed abusive, then I'd look into it a little further by asking her more questions.. and paying her mom a visit. Children are great storytellers - What may be a non issue in general, can be something quite big to a child because they lack perspective.

P.S I know the OP didn't report anything to CPS, but rather to the school counsellor. A counsellor is a mandatory reporter though, so they're really not that far away.

Exactly!

we can only hope the counsellor is credible and credible people do look at EVERYONE involved, not just this girl and her family 

IMO- sure way to add stress to this b-day girl's life and a birthday she will remember for years.......and I mean it, not in a good way at all

Just wonder how the gossip girls will handle it if they don't see "action" the deem appropriate happening? One can speculate, there are good things about our country now, we do have laws, CPS can be good, it can also devastate families at the same time on false accusations - I know the OP and a few don't thinks so and more evidence just will mean nothing, there simply are people that can only see one side, if you talk about it you are parodied- what a 13 year old mentality.

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I don't think it's really fair to say that just because someone doesn't enjoy arbitrary detention, that they have something to hide.
Not many people like being separated from their children while someone conducts a witch hunt.

I agree with what you say too!

It's "odd" too how we use witch hunt isn't it?

The US witch hunt also was about young girls around the age 13- small world!                                 

That didn't turn out well either.

Edited by serenbat - 3/8/13 at 6:15am

[caiesmommy]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

couldn't this just be tuned around on you?

You, by your own admission "ration" food but not at parties, same wit many of the RED flags with this family (what they might do at non-parties/in their home when others are not around) - would you like to be treated in this manner? Would you like your child to be called into school about this? How about everyone knowing too? OK? Aren't these your parenting choices and can't someone say you need to just be checked so they can make sure your child (children) are well fed and emotional ok?

Ration isn't the proper word I'm looking for. BUT when my kids come up 10 min after eating a full meal with seconds asking for more they are told they can have a glass of water and wait a bit and then they're free to ask me for more. More then likely they've not digested enough to realize they're not hungry OR they're bored. I do also speak to them about food as fuel for our bodies and not as a reward. Yes we can have a treat(like popcorn) while we watch a movie but it is just that a treat. My kids don't ever want for any food. They eat more then their fair share and are healthy beings. Yes we've had people ask CAS to investigate how they eat b-c they're vegetarian and allergic to dairy. Believe me I've been there and I'm not upset by it. They checked our cupboards ect and it was over. I don't resent the people who didn't know better and were worried about my kids.

[serenbat]

Quote:

Yes we've had people ask CAS to investigate how they eat b-c they're vegetarian and allergic to dairy. Believe me I've been there and I'm not upset by it. They checked our cupboards ect and it was over. I don't resent the people who didn't know better and were worried about my kids.

I do find you to be the exception not the rule. 

I think if you make a complaint your cupboards should also be checked- good thing they do!

[sarafi]

Wow, OP this has gone far in a few days.

For the record, I do think talking to the counselor was the right move as that child probably did need some help after her birthday party. It sounds like it was very embarrassing for her. You've stated that a number of parents where upset, which presumably came from the fact that her peers where upset, and that will carry over to her so good for you for helping her have an avenue to talk through something that could be socially awkward.

I actually have turned someone into "CPS" --for something that wasn't a clear-cut case of abuse (it was when we were stationed on a military base overseas so not the same acronyms). It was for younger children, and was about a general "lack of care". After a two hour phone interview I was told that a five and two year old on their own six blocks from their house for 3-6 hours at a time without diapers or water, in the summer, did not constitute abuse :-( Daddy worked nights and all. Usually the older child was in my yard stealing and breaking things, but I saw them walking all over and they lived six blocks away so I do know they were not being watched.

I think Serenbat did have the right idea about talking to the parents directly. I personally waited until I was "sure" these kids where really out that long/that far away as a rule before turning them in, and in the end it turned out the Mom had some pretty severe mental issues that she was not being treated for.  I watched and worried about these kids for months, and it took me asking their mom, after CPS decided to not get involved: "hey, did you know your two year old takes off her poopy diaper in my yard, and then runs around alone for many more hours?" and getting a very blank look before I talked to base medical who actually got something done.

The point being, if I had just sucked it up and talked to the parents (who I did not know at all) initially I would have known how worried to be. And I probably would have been a more accurate reporter.

And I do have a girlfriend who makes all of the "good stuff" every time my kids go to her house, and is sure to let me know about it :-) I am sure she thinks I am super cheap, but really play dates are fine with $6 worth of whatever fruit is in season and water. They all get fed, but I don't spend $20/play-date on crap food.***That said, the family you originally posted on had more issues I think than just financial. And maybe the fact that their daughter got talked to with her counselor will help them get on track.

[Escaping]

Originally Posted by caiesmommy 

Ration isn't the proper word I'm looking for. BUT when my kids come up 10 min after eating a full meal with seconds asking for more they are told they can have a glass of water and wait a bit and then they're free to ask me for more. More then likely they've not digested enough to realize they're not hungry OR they're bored. I do also speak to them about food as fuel for our bodies and not as a reward. Yes we can have a treat(like popcorn) while we watch a movie but it is just that a treat. My kids don't ever want for any food. They eat more then their fair share and are healthy beings. Yes we've had people ask CAS to investigate how they eat b-c they're vegetarian and allergic to dairy. Believe me I've been there and I'm not upset by it. They checked our cupboards ect and it was over. I don't resent the people who didn't know better and were worried about my kids.

Did you mean "portion control"?

....and for the record, I wasn't commenting or judging about what the OP should do regarding this particular situation, I was just hoping that anyone reading would think twice before and avoid any knee-jerk reactions to call the authorities on some possibly innocent family they don't know much about. If someone would need to come onto a message board and ask others if they also think something is weird that would lead me to believe that there is enough doubt in that person's mind that there is actual abuse going on. Just because someone shares the same characteristics as an abusive person doesn't necessarily mean one should assume the worst. Yes strict and controlling parents may be abusive parents, but if that's what that particular child needs, they could also be great parents. Some kids just need their every waking moments controlled, some are naturally independent and make good decisions on their own. 

[onlyzombiecat]

Originally Posted by KayleeZoo 

My question is this- when is it "okay" to let what you do/believe/choose spill onto others? These kids went to the sleepover expecting there to be enough food. It's what we all do- invite a group of kids and then hit the grocery store. Kids this age eat quite a bit (and my daughter is very very thin, as is our whole family, btw) and you have to plan accordingly, IMO. If you can't afford to feed a group like that, okay, but I don't feel that they should have been invited if the parents weren't planning on feeding them adequately. The other moms involved all felt the same way I did, but I wonder if it's because their own girls were involved. So I'm asking you all for your honest reactions. :)

I think it is okay to let things spill onto others when the things you do/believe/choose are explained kindly with the understanding that not everyone lives that way and others are given warning/choices and as much consideration for meeting their needs as well as your own as possible. It is not okay to endanger someone else's health or safety- like if someone got injured/sick at the party but the family didn't believe in doing anything but praying for recovery it would not be okay for their belief/practices to spill onto that person and prevent them from getting help.

I personally think the food amount was adequate- not a feast but for the time they were there it was enough IMO. It may be that they don't eat the way other people do and smaller amounts seem normal to them so they don't expect people to want more. I personally wouldn't have expected my almost 13 year old dd to eat a slice of pizza, fruit, veggies, chips, a cupcake and 2 pancakes from dinner time to breakfast and then complain. She might have wanted to eat when she got home from the party but no big deal. 

However, if it were me and a guest in my home asked for something I would most likely give it to them unless there was a medical need of a family member to have that item reserved for them.  I would not behave as strictly as those parents did over food/drink with guests. Not allowing the guest to get a glass of water from the refrigerator dispenser was super rude.

They were not good hosts in so many ways though that have nothing to do with the food provided. It doesn't sound like they planned well or could handle having guests in their home like that. It doesn't mean they are bad people but I wouldn't send my child to stay at their house again.

[serenbat]

Quote:

 I personally wouldn't have expected my almost 13 year old dd to eat a slice of pizza, fruit, veggies, chips, a cupcake and 2 pancakes from dinner time to breakfast and then complain. She might have wanted to eat when she got home from the party but no big deal. 

However, if it were me and a guest in my home asked for something I would most likely give it to them unless there was a medical need of a family member to have that item reserved for them. 

I agree too with your whole post

I will say (red bold) that with the milk, we do not drink milk (we add it to things and in coffee- we don't eat cereal that it goes on- it's in my frig but not in a quaintly that I would just start handing it out with several guest over) but that also is not a reason for a RED flag-IMO

many people don't keep a lot of a certain item on hand (many reasons) frankly I would find it rude if someone asked for something that I did not put out-usually what is present is what you are offering (exception maybe needing sugar/sweetener for a drink) but to ask for an item a host is not putting out in some circles is also not proper etiquette and certainly not a reason to have a fit over- I even (gasp here!!) teach this to my children as what not to do!

Quote:

I think Serenbat did have the right idea about talking to the parents directly.

remember I'm paranoid because I posted here

 I think talking is a good thing (like in prior to allowing a child to sleep over and AFTER as well) -------call me crazy (paranoid- must be personal!!) , but I've see this "talking thing" work a few times!!) 

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by sarafi 

Wow, OP this has gone far in a few days.

I think Serenbat did have the right idea about talking to the parents directly. 

Personally, I would feel beyond uncomfortable talking to "these parents" directly if it was my daughter who got lined up and yelled at.  Especially the dad.  I'd be practically terrified.  Nope.  Wouldn't do it unless I was able to ensure that I was speaking with the mother alone.

The whole CPS thing was never even brought up by the OP, so I'm not sure why it is pertinent to this thread, except that perhaps the counselor might be required to report something.  I don't think it was wrong to speak with the counselor.  Enough people rationalize away what they think are red flags to tragic conclusions.  I'm not sensing this is the case here, at least from this snapshot we see in the thread, and it is certainly easy to swing too far in the other direction with also terrible consequences, but I don't see that any bad decisions have been made here.

[serenbat]

Quote:

Personally, I would feel beyond uncomfortable talking to "these parents" directly if it was my daughter who got lined up and yelled at.  Especially the dad.  I'd be practically terrified.  Nope.  Wouldn't do it unless I was able to ensure that I was speaking with the mother alone.

The whole CPS thing was never even brought up by the OP, so I'm not sure why it is pertinent to this thread, except that perhaps the counselor might be required to report something.

It's really not this fear scary thing - it's very simple, "hey, my dd said this happened, what did the girls do?" if you can't talk to these people how could you let your child sleep at their home?

It almost begs the question what is wrong with a person that lets their child sleep at another's home but can't ask what happened?!

and it's really that BAD and you are this terrified- it's a police matter, not a third party (school counselor)

and any reputable school counselor is a mandatory reported, so just not mentioning CPS doesn't mean it's not real and pertinent to this - and they also will talk to you for free and give you info that is very helpful in knowing what is real and what is not- as I mentioned the police are also trained in this and that's free too

ETA- really that terrified of asking a simple "what happened?" I would say you are not looking at this in proper perspective. 

Edited by serenbat - 3/8/13 at 10:08am

[bmcneal]

While I believe the situation was a bit uncomfortable, and probably wouldn't let my DD go to sleep over at their house anymore, I'm surprised to see how quickly the discussion turned to (a lot of people) saying CPS should be involved. That seems a bit over the top, I think, but that's just me.

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by bmcneal 

While I believe the situation was a bit uncomfortable, and probably wouldn't let my DD go to sleep over at their house anymore, I'm surprised to see how quickly the discussion turned to (a lot of people) saying CPS should be involved. That seems a bit over the top, I think, but that's just me.

I've kept up with the whole thread and I saw ONE person mentioning calling CPS. There's ONE person who is completely freaking out over that mention and somehow has generalized it to mean that everyone who supports the OPs actions supports calling CPS over the incident. Mostly, there are a lot of people who think it was reasonable of the OP to talk to the school counselor as she did, and people who think that while there was some weird/inappropriate stuff at the partly, that the talk with the counselor was unwarranted.

[journeymom]

Thank you for pointing this out and describing it.  That's why I've blocked the freaking out.  There's this habit of unfairly and illogically generalizing and freaking out, and being just plain wrong and completely ignoring it,  that completely divides and derails threads.  It's very dramatic.

[bmcneal]

Originally Posted by Katielady 

I've kept up with the whole thread and I saw ONE person mentioning calling CPS. There's ONE person who is completely freaking out over that mention and somehow has generalized it to mean that everyone who supports the OPs actions supports calling CPS over the incident. Mostly, there are a lot of people who think it was reasonable of the OP to talk to the school counselor as she did, and people who think that while there was some weird/inappropriate stuff at the partly, that the talk with the counselor was unwarranted.

I saw there were people that thought that was too much, but I guess I misunderstood, it seemed like there were more people supporting that (calling CPS). I might have mistaken some quotes to mean agreement of that idea. My apologies.

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by bmcneal 

I saw there were people that thought that was too much, but I guess I misunderstood, it seemed like there were more people supporting that (calling CPS). I might have mistaken some quotes to mean agreement of that idea. My apologies.

It's not your fault, really, and I wasn't directing my frustration at you- my apologies for making it seem so! It's more that the poster who has been freaking out has made it SEEM as though lots of people have been saying the situation warranted a CPS call, and I just wanted to point out that this is not the case.

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

Thank you for pointing this out and describing it.  That's why I've blocked the freaking out.  There's this habit of unfairly and illogically generalizing and freaking out, and being just plain wrong and completely ignoring it,  that completely divides and derails threads.  It's very dramatic.

Yes, exactly. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion with people distorting what others have said, and generally having a hysterical tone. Not to sound like an old fogey, but this is one of the many problems that did not used to occur as much when the moderation of this web site was more careful. I used to really appreciate how generally civil discussions on mothering.com were. Now it's a lot more like the rest of the internet, where a few shrill screamers can ruin it for everyone.

[Nazsmum]

Originally Posted by Katielady 

Yes, exactly. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion with people distorting what others have said, and generally having a hysterical tone. Not to sound like an old fogey, but this is one of the many problems that did not used to occur as much when the moderation of this web site was more careful. I used to really appreciate how generally civil discussions on mothering.com were. Now it's a lot more like the rest of the internet, where a few shrill screamers can ruin it for everyone.

 & the Social Groups...it is like 2 MDC's

[delightedbutterfly]

Originally Posted by Katielady 

Not to sound like an old fogey, but this is one of the many problems that did not used to occur as much when the moderation of this web site was more careful. I used to really appreciate how generally civil discussions on mothering.com were. Now it's a lot more like the rest of the internet, where a few shrill screamers can ruin it for everyone.

I've been reading along the whole thread. While it's been getting heated at times, it's mainly just been opinions. Moderation was stepped down as per general user consensus. If you ever feel there's an issue that you would like addressed, please feel free to PM the forum mod or flag a post :) We'd be happy to discuss things with you. 


I do think this is a great topic of discussion as to how we would deal with the situation in our own personal lives. And a great ettiqute discussion post, it would be wonderful if we could focus on this :)

We all come from different backgrounds and different walks of life. I for one *LOVE* how people have been giving their experiences as to why something might not have been allowed, to me it's a great way to think of the different reasons why someone might say no to something that we haven't thought of before :)

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by delightedbutterfly 

I've been reading along the whole thread. While it's been getting heated at times, it's mainly just been opinions. Moderation was stepped down as per general user consensus. If you ever feel there's an issue that you would like addressed, please feel free to PM the forum mod or flag a post :) We'd be happy to discuss things with you. 


I do think this is a great topic of discussion as to how we would deal with the situation in our own personal lives. And a great ettiqute discussion post, it would be wonderful if we could focus on this :)

We all come from different backgrounds and different walks of life. I for one *LOVE* how people have been giving their experiences as to why something might not have been allowed, to me it's a great way to think of the different reasons why someone might say no to something that we haven't thought of before :)

Fair enough. I'm not sure if there's even anything in this particular thread that warrants moderation. I do feel like the general tone at MDC has slipped into one that includes more general nastiness. But as you said, back to the interesting discussion at hand.

[serenbat]

Quote:

 And a great ettiqute discussion post, it would be wonderful if we could focus on this :)

as many (me too) have tried to point out- etiquette and life-style choices do play a very big role - IMO

I do see a few other closely related subject that also have not been mentioned here - and with just bringing up food it gets this much heat.