How much of your financial situation/choices should impact others? - Page 7

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

Quote:

Personally, I would feel beyond uncomfortable talking to "these parents" directly if it was my daughter who got lined up and yelled at.  Especially the dad.  I'd be practically terrified.  Nope.  Wouldn't do it unless I was able to ensure that I was speaking with the mother alone.

The whole CPS thing was never even brought up by the OP, so I'm not sure why it is pertinent to this thread, except that perhaps the counselor might be required to report something.

It's really not this fear scary thing - it's very simple, "hey, my dd said this happened, what did the girls do?" if you can't talk to these people how could you let your child sleep at their home?

It almost begs the question what is wrong with a person that lets their child sleep at another's home but can't ask what happened?!

and it's really that BAD and you are this terrified- it's a police matter, not a third party (school counselor)

ETA- really that terrified of asking a simple "what happened?" I would say you are not looking at this in proper perspective. 

Certainly if I knew about this before hand, I would never allow it.  I'm not sure how it would have been inferred in my post--knowing beforehand and letting her go anyway. And, OK, I would not be terrified for my life or limb or anything requiring police interference, but socially afraid of approaching the father.  So, fine, remove terrified--a poor word choice considering the subject of the thread making it possible to confuse physically and socially terrified.  I would still dread bringing this up-- and not just in a way that I dread an unpleasant phone call, but dread that I might be caught up in a fight (verbal, to be specific) with someone who has been strangely controlling and yelling at my daughter.  So much so that I might prefer the third party approach if I felt like something needed to be brought up to someone.  If not, I would simply drop it.

I'm not saying I would take the same approach as the OP, but I don't think it was wrong.

[serenbat]

Quote:

 I'd be practically terrified

That is what I responded to and my post reflects what practically terrified in it's definition means to me, I didn't know it meant something different.

I don't get this "controlling" (yelling) either IRL this doesn't mean what it seem to others on here. 

I don't see this controlling of food and material objects either! I spoke to someone who I went to sleep overs with many times today and we talked about several parents and a few things related to sleep overs. This thread and what I find totally bizarre my friend did as well. 

Growing up there were two families, when we were at their home, (regardless of a sleep over or not) there was at the one home a baby grand piano and NO ONE was allowed in that room (didn't seem weird or odd and STILL doesn't to us)- it wasn't a play room, not when we were in 2nd grade or even in 8th grade, it was just a room the family did not want a bunch of kids in, the other family had a pool table, we couldn't use it, again, this was no big deal to us or our parents. Parents did not respond like I have seen on here. My mother had a office in our home, no door on it and it was off limits when my friends were over- that's not controlling. We got what we were given to eat at the home, none of us had a parent RED flag this! And the yelling, it happened frankly I can't remember one (nor could my friend) that it didn't happen at by a parent- some were very mad, no parents again, batted an eye at this.

The "material"things mentioned here by the OP (and the assumptions of RED flags they caused others to have as well) scare me-I find deeply disturbing. 

[sarafi]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

Personally, I would feel beyond uncomfortable talking to "these parents" directly if it was my daughter who got lined up and yelled at.  Especially the dad.  I'd be practically terrified.  Nope.  Wouldn't do it unless I was able to ensure that I was speaking with the mother alone.

It might be a bit late now, but in the future a simple phone call the next day: "gosh DD said they got in trouble, I hope they weren't a bother for you. What could I do to help DD make better choices next time?" would be a very easy way to open dialog without setting the parents up to be defensive. They might have a very good explanation for the reaction level that the girls were not privy to. Or not, there is no way to know unless you ask them.

Of course I wouldn't automatically believe whatever the Dad or Mom said, but it sounds like these kids are going to have an on-going relationship. It would be easier if their parents could talk to each other openly. It sounds like a bit of time has gone on at this point, so the OP would have a tougher time pulling this off at this point.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by sarafi 

It might be a bit late now, but in the future a simple phone call the next day: "gosh DD said they got in trouble, I hope they weren't a bother for you. What could I do to help DD make better choices next time?" would be a very easy way to open dialog without setting the parents up to be defensive. They might have a very good explanation for the reaction level that the girls were not privy to. Or not, there is no way to know unless you ask them.

Of course I wouldn't automatically believe whatever the Dad or Mom said, but it sounds like these kids are going to have an on-going relationship. It would be easier if their parents could talk to each other openly. It sounds like a bit of time has gone on at this point, so the OP would have a tougher time pulling this off at this point.

Very well put!!!

Currently, what's done is done, and cannot be undone. What can still be done now is to stop participating in gossiping about the incident, and keep the girl welcome in your daughter's life. As long as that's what is currently going on, there's not much more to discuss, in my opinion.

[Escaping]

Originally Posted by sarafi 

It might be a bit late now, but in the future a simple phone call the next day: "gosh DD said they got in trouble, I hope they weren't a bother for you. What could I do to help DD make better choices next time?" would be a very easy way to open dialog without setting the parents up to be defensive. They might have a very good explanation for the reaction level that the girls were not privy to. Or not, there is no way to know unless you ask them.

Of course I wouldn't automatically believe whatever the Dad or Mom said, but it sounds like these kids are going to have an on-going relationship. It would be easier if their parents could talk to each other openly. It sounds like a bit of time has gone on at this point, so the OP would have a tougher time pulling this off at this point.

I like this. A lot of parents are quick to assume their children are little angels and no one else has the right to discipline their children, ever. (not talking about particular person in this thread or the OP, but it seems to be the general direction parents seem to be heading in).  I would hope that if I'm not present to discipline my child and my he isn't on his best behavior, another parent would. Yelling is fine to me, as long at it isn't something obscene, and I would assume that in most cases, other parents aren't just psychos who invite kids over to their home to yell at them. If they needed to yell, I'd first assume my kid wasn't acting appropriately for the situation, because that's normally the case.

I don't mean to sound like a crotchety old woman (I'm under 30! lol), but "in my day", teachers and other parents were still allowed physical contact with kids, and I think as a result we were a little more aware of our behavior than kids are today. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

 A lot of parents are quick to assume their children are little angels and no one else has the right to discipline their children, ever. (not talking about particular person in this thread or the OP, but it seems to be the general direction parents seem to be heading in).

totally correct!

also not talking about any certain person either

13 year olds have a very narrow view of life and life styles of others (because they simply lack the experience) what is perceived is not always the case, the way one family lives can be judged against how the 13 year old lives and materialistic values can "fuzzy" their judgement and also they are sometimes are prone to not repeat the situation in the correct context that an adult would have view it in  

not the exact situation but does show how judgement of others can be totally false - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290682/Walmart-Lisa-Anthony-Demaree-lost-custody-children-month-employee-called-police-bath-time-pictures.html   it does happen

[Escaping]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

not the exact situation but does show how judgement of others can be totally false - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290682/Walmart-Lisa-Anthony-Demaree-lost-custody-children-month-employee-called-police-bath-time-pictures.html   it does happen

Not to beat a dead horse because this topic has been discussed to death already... but that's really disturbing... "It was a month before the girls were returned to their parents, after a Maricopa County Superior Court judge ruled the photographs were in fact harmless and a medical exam revealed no signs of sexual abuse." ...wow. well if the kids weren't sexually abused before, they have been now... so, no, not "better safe than sorry".

[Ragana]

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat 

I think it is okay to let things spill onto others when the things you do/believe/choose are explained kindly with the understanding that not everyone lives that way and others are given warning/choices and as much consideration for meeting their needs as well as your own as possible. It is not okay to endanger someone else's health or safety- like if someone got injured/sick at the party but the family didn't believe in doing anything but praying for recovery it would not be okay for their belief/practices to spill onto that person and prevent them from getting help.

I personally think the food amount was adequate- not a feast but for the time they were there it was enough IMO. It may be that they don't eat the way other people do and smaller amounts seem normal to them so they don't expect people to want more. I personally wouldn't have expected my almost 13 year old dd to eat a slice of pizza, fruit, veggies, chips, a cupcake and 2 pancakes from dinner time to breakfast and then complain. She might have wanted to eat when she got home from the party but no big deal. 

However, if it were me and a guest in my home asked for something I would most likely give it to them unless there was a medical need of a family member to have that item reserved for them.  I would not behave as strictly as those parents did over food/drink with guests. Not allowing the guest to get a glass of water from the refrigerator dispenser was super rude.

They were not good hosts in so many ways though that have nothing to do with the food provided. It doesn't sound like they planned well or could handle having guests in their home like that. It doesn't mean they are bad people but I wouldn't send my child to stay at their house again.

I have followed this thread and agree with this for the most part. The situation seemd to be a little on the strange side, and I might re-think sending my child over, but I don't see anything abusive from this superficial overview.

The only thing I do differently than the above is limit kids' snacks at my house. I have kids over frequently after school - if I've put out a tub of hummus and veggies or a plate of crackers and cheese, when that's done, it's done. I know they're having dinner about an hour-and-a-half later, so I think that's plenty for a snack, even for kids who are hungry because of early lunch at school, and I have a food budget I need to keep. I also agree with the posters who said that speaking with the parents might have cleared up some things (whether positive or negative).

[mamarhu]

To me, this would just not be very upsetting. Not having as much pizza as you might like is not the same as going hungry. Drinking tap water is 100% OK. I am happy for my kids to learn that other people might live differently than we do. Not that I would purposefully plan it, but I would be glad for my kids to learn to politely respond in awkward and uncomfortable situations. That is what the protective time of childhood is for - not shielding them from every negative experience, but giving them opportunity to learn how to cope.

My kids' definition of "yelling" is different than mine. They mean any reprimand, however calmly or politely stated. I mean red-in-the-face, high volume, harsh words, etc. I would perhaps feel uncomfortable with my definition style yelling, but I would need to clarify what happened before being too concerned. We are a calm discussion type of family, but my son will say to his friends, "I got yelled at for being late". Even if the style was loud and somewhat harsh at the friend's house, I would hope my kids are not so fragile that one such experience would be overwhelming. I hope I am teaching them to shrug it off, not take it too personally.
 

[crunchy_mommy]

The yelling/humiliation thing would be extremely upsetting to me, and I wouldn't want my kid there again for that reason.

The food thing doesn't seem all that horrible to me. Perhaps a bit weird, but not all that bad. I don't think there's anything wrong with only offering water, and maybe the fridge dispenser was broken or contaminated or something. If I were this family & I couldn't afford to feed the kids a lot, I'd probably ask them to bring potluck or snacks to share, but I don't think the amounts they offered were starving the kids or anything. Maybe they are just a bit clueless about throwing parties.

[honeybee80]

As a teacher at a school where we DO see a lot of cases of abuse (and I have had to report some) and where I work fairly closely with the counselor, I will say that the job of the counselor is NOT just to investigate cases of abuse, but to provide support for any type of emotional or family issues that may be going on.  If I have a kid in my class who's having a rough day, you better believe I let the counselor know and she will usually pull that kid just to talk and see what's up and if there's something she can do to help that child feel better.  That being said, no one but the counselor and that girl know what was talked about, and who's to say that girl shouldn't have a trustworthy adult she can share things with and that she doesn't feel much better after the conversation?  OP, I think you absolutely did the right thing, and honestly, it sounds like the concern is really for this girl, so kudos to you for helping to make that meeting with the counselor happen.  And I think it's awesome what the other girls are doing so she doesn't feel bad about the sleepover at her house.  Also, I'm kind of appalled at some of the bashing going on here by other posters.  There are nice ways to voice your point of view without making others feel bad.

[KayleeZoo]

Thanks to the rest of the folks who shared their opinions, insight, etc. Just thought I'd share the follow up story of the sleepover we hosted...

There were 5 girls plus DD and we just did a relaxed pizza, ice cream, movies night. All of the other girls had spent the night at our house before, and they all felt comfortable with how we do things- I have always encouraged my kids' friends to make themselves at home and help themselves to what they need/want, or to ask DD or myself if they're not sure where something is if they don't want to rummage through cupboards or drawers ;)  The child whose party my DD attended was very.very.shy and quiet. She kept watching the other kids and me- I am no psychology expert (but I've paid a lot of money in psychotherapy co-pays, so I'm not exactly a novice to the subject) and I'm thinking that she was trying to figure out the dynamic. I always joke around with DD's friends and am very casual and laid back- that's just how our family is. I put the pizzas and salad out and a stack of plates, forks, napkins, and glasses and told the girls to help themselves. We always have several varities of 100% juice, cow's milk, and soda for special times like sleepovers and I told the girls to choose whatever they wanted from the fridge to drink. Everyone was totally at ease with getting themselves food and drinks, but this girl really hung back and watched what the others did before she served herself. And I noticed that she took only one piece of pizza and a tiny bit of salad and filled her glass about 1/4 full. Everyone else kept refilling their plates and glasses, and she sat there until I casually asked her if she was still hungry, and said that there was a ton of food left and for her to eat until she was full. Only then did she take seconds :(  The ice cream situation made me sad. We're big ice cream eaters here. And I'm kinda snobby about what brands I buy- we just like good ice cream with a high butterfat content. Oh, and Ben and Jerrys ;)  There were 5-6 varities, plus toppings (fresh blueberries, blackberries and raspberries, hot fudge, caramel, sprinkles, whipped cream, slivered almonds, marashino cherries- I know. It's all junk except for the berries and the almonds). I put bowls and spoons and ice cream scoops out and told the girls to knock themselves out. They all filled their bowls with all sorts of combos, but she took one scoop and sort of hung back by the counter and didn't go sit down, but she stood looking at all the toppings and ice cream like she wasn't sure what to do. I heard her ask one of the other girls how many scoops they were allowed and the other child told her to help herself to whatever she wanted- there were no rules about how much of anything they could have. I almost cried when I saw the look on her face- she was shocked. I mean, it's like she had never been told that she could help herself to what she wanted before. I'm not saying that ice cream gluttony is a good thing, but I can't imagine a 12yo child not knowing what it's like to make your own ice cream sundae with whatever you wanted out of what was available ..... I dunno, it just struck a chord with me. She did finally take a little bit of almost everything (like most of the other girls) and when she was done, she took her bowl to the sink. DD told her that she could have seconds and she hesitated and looked at me- I told her to go ahead and she refilled her bowl.

Later that night she asked DD if it was okay that they were watching TV *and* plugging in their tablets, ipods, etc. I guess that goes towards the electricity conservation? She also asked if DH and I would be mad that the girls were playing pool on the billiard table. DD said that when they raided the kitchen for midnight snacks, she hung back and only helped herself after DD and the other kids encouraged her.. DD made microwave popcorn and they had bagels with cream cheese and the girl asked DD if she was sure I wasn't going to get mad about the snacks. DD said that she seemed to have fun and was smiling and laughing a lot- that's what I saw, too. We did bacon, muffins, fruit and cold cereal for breakfast and I had to tell her that it was okay to help herself to whatever she wanted, and to eat until she was full. She did take a second blueberry muffin :)

I know that my kids are priveleged compared to many others. I know that not everyone can afford to buy special treats for sleepovers. I get that, and I don't have a problem with it. But this kid behaved so differently around food than any other child who has been in our home- and we have hosted a *ton* of kids over the years. It made me really sad that she was so concerned that a parent was going to get *angry* about food (or about using the pool table, or watching TV and using electricity to charge a freaking iPod....) I just don't think kids should have to grow up that way. On the upside, I think she had fun and she thanked DD several times for inviting her, and she did thank me for having her, too. We're definately having her back over. DD doesn't want to go back to her house and I am not inclined to let her, but we can certainly have the gaggle of girls over here and include her.

Edited by KayleeZoo - 3/21/13 at 6:20pm

[velveeta]

I'm glad you posted an update. I have been thinking of this young lady. I think the best thing you can do is to welcome her to your home and love her, just as you did.

[journeymom]

That's amazing.  Her behavior in your home, faced with abundance and free will, really high lights the contrast that your dd described at the girl's home.

[mar123]

I have a cousin on my dad's side who grew up in a home that had food restriction. She was only allowed a total of one cup of milk per day. The step dad even measured it in a measuring cup. When she was old enough, she got a part time job and bought her own food, including milk, so she could have as much as she wanted. She is my age and has definitely had issues as an adult. The whole thing is just sad.

[laura163]

I hosted a sleep over last night and I couldn't stop thinking about this thread. I served pizza, cake, fruit, chips, soda (a big deal in our house), candy and popcorn. No Ben and Jerry's ice cream, but what I consider "normal" sleep over food and snacks.

They were up too late, too loud, and I think everyone had a great time.  :)

[bmcneal]

The way she acted reminded me of when I was in foster care. The first foster home I was in, my foster mom *might* feed me a bologna sandwich during summer, or a small plate of spaghetti, and that was it. During school, I ate breakfast and lunch at school, and that was what I had to eat (unless my friends gave me food to sneak home and I could hide it from my foster mom before she searched my backpack). Eventually, they *finally* found me a different foster home (only after I told them if they didn't move me, I would run away), and my new foster mom said "There's food in the fridge and the freezer, help yourself to whatever you want." Then they kind of laughed/watched in a bewildered way when I just went and sat in the kitchen, because I didn't know what to do.

[KayleeZoo]

bmcneal, I'm sorry you had to endure that   NO child should have those memories...

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by bmcneal 

The way she acted reminded me of when I was in foster care. The first foster home I was in, my foster mom *might* feed me a bologna sandwich during summer, or a small plate of spaghetti, and that was it. During school, I ate breakfast and lunch at school, and that was what I had to eat (unless my friends gave me food to sneak home and I could hide it from my foster mom before she searched my backpack). Eventually, they *finally* found me a different foster home (only after I told them if they didn't move me, I would run away), and my new foster mom said "There's food in the fridge and the freezer, help yourself to whatever you want." Then they kind of laughed/watched in a bewildered way when I just went and sat in the kitchen, because I didn't know what to do.

that is so sad. I'm so sorry!

[journeymom]

Oh golly, I really don't get people. That's just neurotic.  It's people like that that support the stereotype that foster parents are just in it for the money.  Very sad.   Hugs to you, bmcneal.