What teachers wish parents knew... A good read. - Page 3

[ollyoxenfree]

I must have a thick skin. I didn't find the tone of the article to be grossly offensive.  A little provoking, sure, but that's to be expected considering the medium and the intended audience. He generalizes, yes, but that's hard to avoid in such a short article. I've read far more harsh and withering words directed at teachers and schools from people venting on this site without any fear of recrimination. 

I detected more frustration with parents rather than any other attitude. I think he makes a few good points with his plea for a little respect. I find that many parents have a reflexive rejection of the idea that anyone else might have some new or different insight into their children. Parents have become so entrenched in the concept that they are the experts about their own children, they can't make room for anyone else to make a contribution if it doesn't agree with their own views. Many parents are unwilling to acknowledge that a teacher's experience and professional knowledge may have value. They don't recognize that the teacher may have a broader perspective that can be helpful on an issue.  

And yes, before everyone leaps in with their stories of horrible soul-sucking teachers who refuse to nurture productive partnerships with parents, I agree that teachers should respect parents and students too. It should be mutual.  

[squimp]

It didn't bother me that much either, although there are definitely some generalizations ("the best teachers give the lowest grades") that I can take or leave.  Most of the advice seems reasonable to me, especially knowing a lot of parents' attitudes.  

With the comments about taking advice, he says to take it and digest in like you would from a doctor or a lawyer.  Makes complete sense to me.  Unfortunately I have seen teachers receiving far less respect that doctors and lawyers in our society and on other boards, for an arguably far more important job.  

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by squimp 

  Unfortunately I have seen teachers receiving far less respect that doctors and lawyers in our society and on other boards, for an arguably far more important job.  

I confess I laugh at the comparison with lawyers. I take the point that's being made in the article but really, lawyers are one of the least respected professional groups around. Almost everyone knows a half-dozen scathing lawyer jokes and lawyers are routinely blamed for the modern decline of Western Civilization. But yeah, teachers get a rough ride themselves.

Thinking about this general attitude, it's a symptom of living in a skeptical and entitled age. Everyone is an expert now, thanks to google, so education and experience are devalued. Thus, professionals and experts can be dismissed or ignored. People are comfortable challenging the system, especially when there is any personal inconvenience involved, and expect that they will receive individual accommodations. Our most popular, successful narratives are stories about little guys who triumph against Goliath-like systems - legal, corporate, medical, academic......  People love that plot line. It's not surprising that they try to emulate it in their  own lives constantly in exchanges when they encounter "the system", any system. It's not a bad thing. Hopefully on an individual level people will achieve good results for themselves on their personal daily "hero's journey". It does, however, create a certain amount of stress for all involved. 

[pek64]

The parent-teacher conflict existed when I was growing up, too! It has nothing to do with Internet!

I think the situation is worse because of the number of lawsuits nowadays. Some parents do threaten to sue if they don't like their child being called a bully, or something similar.

That still doesn't mean that the pendulum should be swung the opposite way and give teachers unquestioning "respect". Parents need to use their best judgment, and good teachers can work with good parents. If the author is finding he can't work with any parents, then he needs to face the possibility that the problem is him.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by pek64 

The parent-teacher conflict existed when I was growing up, too! It has nothing to do with Internet!

 

I honestly recall very little parent-teacher conflict from my childhood. Which wasn't always a good thing, there were times when a little conflict would have been helpful. My same-age friends and relatives have made similar observations. 

I think there is a very different experience between growing up in the 60's and 70's vs. growing up in the 80's and 90's. Before the counter-culture revolution, I think it was fairly common for people to accept whatever they were told by professionals, including teachers, and even if they didn't agree, to learn to tolerate it. Once they realized that "you can't trust anyone over 30" and that everyone covers their own behinds (Watergate, Viet Nam etc.), they were much less willing to go along with the system. Which supports my point about living in a skeptical age. So I don't think it has nothing to do with the internet but I agree that the internet is not the only contributing factor.  The internet just makes information, good and bad, accessible and feeds the skepticism. 

[beanma]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Our most popular, successful narratives are stories about little guys who triumph against Goliath-like systems - legal, corporate, medical, academic......  People love that plot line. It's not surprising that they try to emulate it in their  own lives constantly in exchanges when they encounter "the system", any system.

I think, though, that society at large has changed in the last 60 yrs. In the 40s and 50s society was much more paternalistic and we were supposed to listen to those in positions of authority and blindly go along unquestioningly. In the 60s, more of society began to question authority and not just go along. 

I got that paternalistic vibe off the article and it rankled. I think the most successful interaction whether it's between patient and doctor ,or client and lawyer, or parent, student and teacher is one of working together, not top down decrees. I did not get a "working together" message from the article. I hear his complaint of parents not taking a working together tack either, but he sounds like he's wanting them to just do what he says instead of being willing to engage in a dialogue. I hope he was just annoyed and it showed through and he really does try to work with the parents who meet him in the middle.

Edited by beanma - 4/2/13 at 5:41pm

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by beanma 

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Our most popular, successful narratives are stories about little guys who triumph against Goliath-like systems - legal, corporate, medical, academic......  People love that plot line. It's not surprising that they try to emulate it in their  own lives constantly in exchanges when they encounter "the system", any system.

I think, though, that society at large has changed in the last 60 yrs. In the 40s and 50s society was much more paternalistic and we were supposed to listen to those in positions of authority and blindly go along unquestioningly. In the 60s, more of society began to question authority and not just go along. 

Yes, I think I just made that very point in my previous post. 

[beanma]

I think we were posting at the same time! Great minds think alike and all that. 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by beanma 

I think we were posting at the same time! Great minds think alike and all that. 

  

[Angelorum]

I don't find it really offensive, a little whiny and over generalized, yeah.  It did irk me that he says he dislikes parents asking their child "is this true"  when he tells them about an incident, and yet expects parents to come and diplomatically get his side of the story when the child reports some incident to the parents.  I understand there are parents who believe their child is a perfect angel etc etc, but a child should have just as much opportunity to tell their side of the story as the teacher does. 

[Escaping]

I've always understood the "is this true?" thing as a rhetorical question that parents ask kids as an opportunity to be honest and take responsibility for their own actions, not to accuse the other side of lying... and also so the kid gets a fair trial 

I may have spent way too much time in courts but to me it seems completely unnatural to have a hearing without an agreed statement of facts first. 

I can't imagine it to be a great exercise in trust building for a child to see their parent taking another person's word over theirs without question. 

[SweetSilver]

The problem for me is, this is an article on cnn.com, not some intelligent conversation at a dinner party listing his experience and frustrations and his ideas about solutions.  Is it supposed to be an editorial? I don't think so.  That's what rankles me.  If it was a personal column, rant, editorial, I might forgive his simple-minded, authoritarian solutions.  The guy is frustrated, and probably for good reason.  But no, this is presented as a "how to--the keys to a good relationship with your child's educator", and it simply does not work in that context.

We read "parents are suing teachers".  Well, in some cases, maybe it's about time.  What do we know?  I know that one of my Brownies gets yelled at ("in my ear") when she's not doing what the teacher is explaining.  There can be far, far worse.  Have you ever tried to get a teacher fired?  A teacher in Mossyrock, WA accused of child molestation was allowed to go back into the classroom, and only after the floods of parent letters and comments (and parents pulling kids out of the classroom) was he placed on paid leave.  It was a huge boondoggle, and the district was unable to actually fire him and he refused to resign.  I forget the details and the internet failed to help me on this, unfortunately.

My point is that, while many lawsuits are superfluous, we automatically rush to think "oh, lawsuits, how silly and melodramatic.  Those parents are overreacting".  But the fact is that we know nothing of the nature of them.  Once again, we acknowledge that experts are on the side of reason and are therefore more reliable than emotional, protective parents.  

Make this an editorial, and I have no complaints, except perhaps to disagree, but this is not an editorial.

[Angelorum]

Originally Posted by Escaping 

I've always understood the "is this true?" thing as a rhetorical question that parents ask kids as an opportunity to be honest and take responsibility for their own actions, not to accuse the other side of lying... and also so the kid gets a fair trial 

I may have spent way too much time in courts but to me it seems completely unnatural to have a hearing without an agreed statement of facts first. 

I can't imagine it to be a great exercise in trust building for a child to see their parent taking another person's word over theirs without question. 

Yeah that too.

And as far as the summer reading thing, no I most definitely don't feel his pain.  I was never assigned summer reading (though my sister was at the same school)  and if I had been, I would have felt extremely annoyed and, I don't know, disrespected.  I was a total book worm, I read many books over the summer and during the school year, but summer vacation was MINE.  I wanted to do things and read books of my own choosing, not spend my time reading a book for a teacher who felt his class was so much more important that it deserved hours of student time before the class even began.

As I recall, my sister and all of her friends who were in the honors english class that was assigned summer reading procrastinated the chore immensely, and then all scrambled the 2 days before school started, to snap up the last copy at the library to skim, or find the movie version at the rental store, or buy the cliff notes.  I doubt they learned or retained much about the book in the end. 

[Escaping]

Exactly. Summer vacation (and the new school year) was always a morale booster for me. I didn't get horrible grades or anything, but I always felt I was slacking by the end of the year and each new year was a fresh start where I had high hopes that I would keep my notes tidy, keep up with homework, etc. If I had some crappy reading assignment looming over me all summer long, my "fresh start" feeling would have been already shot. 

I get the theory behind a summer reading assignment, but it probably does more harm than good for most normal kids.

[beanma]

I'm with y'all. Hate the idea of summer reading. School is hard enough for my dd1. She does well—mostly As & Bs—but it's hard work for her and I am definitely NOT OKAY with summer homework. She needs a complete break. She loves learning, but she needs to be self-directed in the summer and learn what she wants to and read what she wants to, not what someone else tells her to. I think I would just tell her teachers no if they tried to assign summer reading, but so far no one has done that. They can have her when it's school time, but the rest of the time is hers. I also am not in favor of homework over fall, winter, or spring breaks. I'm ambivalent about weekend homework. It gives her more time to get into a project, but I don't love it. I think if an assignment is made on Thursday and due Mon so that she at least has one school night to work on it, but can work on it over the weekend that's okay, but to assign on Friday and have it due on Mon is just kinda crappy to me.

And yes, I agree that this read like an editorial or a "my view" type column and in that context it is okay, but otherwise I do find it a bit objectionable. I don't do well with authoritarian types, though.

[mar123]

As a high school English teacher, I find your comments about summer reading very informative. We do have it at my school. The teachers on my grade level (there are 3 of us) have tried to make it as interesting and bearable as possible.

We give the students a list of 10 current books (Mockingjay, Nineteen Minutes, etc). The students choose one book to read. When we return, we do cross-class book talks with each teacher hosting the book talks of the books we know the best and enjoyed. In some cases, we will have so many who read a book (like Mockingjay) that we each host a book talk for that novel. The students complete a graphic organizer with the group, which they then use to create a project for a grade. No multiple choice test here. I tell the students that I want to see what YOU got out of the book, not if you noticed what I noticed in the book.

I guess my question is, is it the act of summer reading that is the problem? Is it the books to choose from? Is it how the book is assesed?

I would love some feedback.

[pek64]

Please understand that sometimes lawsuits are *needed*! I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just meant that there are more parents, in my experience, using the threat of legal action to keep their children's records clean than were when I was growing up.

[beanma]

For us, it's the act of summer reading. It's our time to do whatever we want. School gets 'em the rest of the time. The summer is ours. To have Mockingjay assigned as summer reading would just sap the joy right out of it for her and she loves the Hunger Games books. It turns what could be fun into a "have to" and drudgery. It would for me, too, frankly. I think having it as a book to read right when you get back to school would be awesome, but over the summer just sucks, IMO.

[Skippy918]

I hated summer reading. I went to catholic school and had summer reading up until 12th grade. In the younger grades, we were able to choose 5 books and we had to write 5 book reports. In the middle and high school grades, we were given a list to choose from and then tested on said books. The book list was classic literature, think Steinbeck, Orwell, etc, and they were so boring. It turned me off from reading for a long time. I was the active, play outside all day type, so sitting down with a book was not my idea of fun. I remember getting the cliff notes after reading the book to try and understand whatever symbolism the teacher was asking about and to help study for the tests.

[Angelorum]

Even if it was a book I had wanted or  planned to read, just being officially assigned to do it during my summer vacation would have turned me off.   It would have felt like my teachers didn't value the activities or interests I wanted to pursue during my vacation, or trust that I would do anything worthwhile on my own.