- topicPersonal Growthtagged by HuntressMother, 3/9/13
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'Boring' husband? Any advice? - Page 2post #21 of 313/22/13 at 3:02pmThread Starterpost #22 of 313/22/13 at 3:30pmI've read the entire thread and your last post REALLY cleared things up for me. Before this, I was stumped, and had nothing constructive to say. Now I see his behaviour in a new light. Forgive me if my take on it seems simplistic or if I offend or hurt you, that is not my intention at all.
I haven't been here with DH but was in a comparable situation with an ex although it was a much less longterm relationship. This to me screams that he's checked out and given up but doesn't want to do the work/be the bad guy and end the relationship. When you said you love him more than he loves you, that really struck a chord: I think you're very right about that. I think the only way forward that holds any hope of happiness and fulfillment for you is to lay it all on table like pp said and tell him that you're losing hope too. The binge drinking, possible drug use and involvement with the ex all would be deal breakers for me. I can tell how much you love him by your post but you need stability and fulfillment to be the mother you need to be. Telling you those hurtful things, then apologizing but NOT doing anything to heal the relationship isn't good enough. When you were ready to leave him and he didn't consent to getting help that told me volumes. He feels guilty for hurting you but can't put his pride aside to make your marriage work. I'm sorry but that's not good enough!!! If he screwed up at work, he'd have to not only accept responsibility but also work on not making the same mistake again and if possible repair the damage he's caused. You are worth so much more than this! He may be a good father and a good friend but he's a lousy husband. It sounds like you would be a whole lot better off being amicable exes and coparenting in a friendly and mature way. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh but I feel you're losing yourself in trying to make him want to be a better husband when all he wants is an easy out. Please update on how you're doing.post #23 of 313/22/13 at 3:35pm
I am sorry you are having to deal with this. From where I sit, and with VERY limited knowledge of the situation (only what you have posted on this thread) it sounds like he is kind of abusive- at least emotionally abusive. It sounds like you had a traumatic childhood and are really focused on healing and making a peaceful life for yourself and your dh is not even interested in pursuing healing or working on being a good partner. If he tells you he doesn't love you as much and says mean things to you that is not good!
But then again breaking up a family when there is kids involved is a huge decision and of course has its own consequences. I wish you well and hope you find the healing and peace you deserve.
Are you on the fence about breaking up with him or are you sure you want to stay together and try to make it work?post #24 of 313/22/13 at 4:00pmThread Starter
skycheattraffic- Thank you so much for your reply!
"This to me screams that he's checked out and given up but doesn't want to do the work/be the bad guy and end the relationship. When you said you love him more than he loves you, that really struck a chord: I think you're very right about that. I think the only way forward that holds any hope of happiness and fulfillment for you is to lay it all on table like pp said and tell him that you're losing hope too. "
I totally agree with you and have felt like this for some time now. It has long been well know to me that he can be a bit 'childish' and doesnt want to take responsibility for his actions. It would be much easier for him to wait for me to break it off and me the 'bad guy' than for him to do it himself. Hes always had an issue with taking responsibility. For example, when I caught him talking with his ex, it turned out to be 'my fault' and that I 'pushed him' to do it because I 'dont listen to him' , which is a huge lie. I always been a good listener. He just didnt want to accept what he had done wrong.
I know for sure that i really have to lay EVERYTHING out before him and really let him know where I stand and how I feel. It truly doesnt matter if he responds to what I say or not, because he will have heard what I have to say and know that I mean business. Though I would like to hear him say, himself, that he thinks its over and that hes no longer happier with me, it isnt essential for me to take action. I know what I need to be happy, and if he admits that he doesnt love me as much as he once did, then of course hes not going to put much effort towards those things that I need.
"Telling you those hurtful things, then apologizing but NOT doing anything to heal the relationship isn't good enough. When you were ready to leave him and he didn't consent to getting help that told me volumes. He feels guilty for hurting you but can't put his pride aside to make your marriage work. I'm sorry but that's not good enough!!! If he screwed up at work, he'd have to not only accept responsibility but also work on not making the same mistake again and if possible repair the damage he's caused"
Exactly. This is always been how I have felt. The majority of his apologies are all empty and serve no other purpose than to 'get me off of his back' so he can move on and do what he wants to do and ignore the issue at hand. And again, I agree with you- thats simply NOT good enough. If he truly loved me, I would understand that with it having to me told to him.
"He may be a good father and a good friend but he's a lousy husband. It sounds like you would be a whole lot better off being amicable exes and coparenting in a friendly and mature way. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh but I feel you're losing yourself in trying to make him want to be a better husband when all he wants is an easy out. Please update on how you're doing."
Yes, i know that to be true. I guess that I just love him so much I have even begun making up excuses for his behaviour and I know thats not ok. And im very much starting to think the very same thing myself. I have suggested before, that maybe it would be a good idea for him and I to live seperatly for awhile and take a break for a bit..but, as bad as it is to say, I feel like I dont trust him enough to leave him alone for a few weeks.
I so scared from his past cheating, that all I can think is if I leave for awhile and he knows that im not around- he might get the same idea again. Im not sure about that, because he is very guilty about that and always said it the dumbest thing that he has ever done, but its always a worry that in the back of my mind.
I didnt think your post was harsh at all. It was open and honest and kind- and thats all I was asking for. Thank you so very much for your reply, it truly did help. I plan on talking with him either this weekend sometime when he gets home from work ( and the kids are with grandma ) or next weekend when he will not be working and I will have all of the time I need to speak with him, without him complaining that 'hes too tired from work' for all of that. I will keep you all updated for sure.post #25 of 313/22/13 at 4:07pmThread Starter
SnapDragon- Thank you for your reply!!
"Are you on the fence about breaking up with him or are you sure you want to stay together and try to make it work?"
That all totally depends on him. When I lay everything on the table for him, if he still refuses to engage in conversation with me and try to heal with me, then that will tell me all that I need to know: He doesnt love me enough to try to save our relationship which means he doesnt really want to be with me. If thats the case, then the children and I will be moving on Ill just have to accept that.
If he sees that Im going to leave and Im stern in my choice and that somehow manages to jolt him back to reality and he wants to move forward and heal with me and hes prepared to make some HUGE changes ( including getting himself into therapy) then I will stay, but ONLY if he actually follows through with what he says, and hes not just telling me what he thinks I want to here, as he has always done in the past,
Thank you for your time and advice!post #26 of 313/22/13 at 7:01pmI'm on my phone so quoting is a real hassle; I hope you don't mind if I paraphrase
1) The connecting with the ex thing: turning the truth around and blaming you for his actions is a clear sign of manipulation. Whether or not you did anything to upset him is irrelevant: HE made the choice to be in touch with her, HE is responsible for that transgression. Saying it's your fault is simply a way to deflect so he isn't perceived as the bad guy. What if he starts raising a hand to you? I'd bet he'd say it's your fault he "had" to hit you. This is SO much a red flag. I know you love him a lot but I'd run, not walk out. This scares me.
2) the empty apologies: saying he's sorry so you'll get off his back. Really, he's acting like a child. So he blames you for his choices, then if that doesn't wash, pays you lip service. I'm sorry to say he has no regard or respect for you at all. He'd make a great politician, always trying to talk his way out of a jam. I couldn't relax around someone that treated me that. How do you offset that kind of blatant disrespect?
3) you making excuses to justify his behaviour. Take a spin through "parents as partners" and see how many women spend years trying to make the present look better than it is before separation opens their eyes. There is simply no excuse for his behaviour. If he's unhappy, he needs to do something about it. No one (not even you - and you've tried!) can change his life for him. I hate to say this but by not callIng him out on it and drawing a line in the sand, you're enabling this to continue. He's had ample chances to work with you. If that doesn't suit him then he can work on himself in his own time but you don't need to suffer in the meantime.
4) the possibility of infidelity if you do a trial separation. Really this would hurt but it wouldn't change the underlying dynamics much. When you are disregarded and dismissed so much every day, how much trust is there to lose?
I agree that the only way forward is to say "THIS is what it will take for me to stay/try again" and put the ball in his court. If that doesn't spark change then he really did want out but wanted you to do the work.
Again, I don't want to be hurtful but you deserve respect and love and you can't allow your love for him to blind you from the truth. Your kids need good role models and positive influences and any child would much rather see his/her parents happy apart than mistreated and miserable together. I'm so sorry you're going through this and hope that he will wake up and do right by his wife and family. You're in my thoughts!post #27 of 313/23/13 at 11:29am
that doesn't sound like a healthy relationship at all and while I can see how it is benefiting him I think it is just hurting you. My ex husband the lying/sneaky sort who was a real charmer when he wanted to be and sounds very similar. You should be able to trust your spouse and not fear them, emotionally or physically. Do you have a backup plan? I would think about an exit plan and gather some evidence of his addiction stuff if he would be a danger to your child without you there. you say he loves him so maybe he'd be safe but I'd be weary from hearing his past actions. I would insist on individual and joint counseling if you want to stay together. I know taking big steps like that are hard especially with a child involved but it really sounds like you deserve better. No matter what you choose to do I wish you the best. this is just my opinion going from what you've shared and past experiences. With my husband we have issues with depression ect but I know he will never lie to me, cheat, or hurt me and the kids and I feel those things are very important. :big hugs: pm me if you ever need someone to talk topost #28 of 313/25/13 at 12:42am
I have to agree that it sounds really unhealthy.
From reading your latest posts it sounds like he is abusive and pretty unhappy in the relationship.
Personally I would give him the ultimatum of couples counselling or you separate and I would make sure you stick to it. I honestly feel like he doesn't believe you'll leave him so he's happy just to go along treating you like shit. You may love him but you are worth more than this. You deserve a partner that is an equal who loves you as much as you love him. You deserve so much more and there are so many men out there that would thank god every day that they had you in their life.post #29 of 314/3/13 at 7:38pm1. He won't be physically intimate with you
2. He is happy when he is away from you and your child.
3. He won't talk about your relationship
4. He won't interact with his kid unless you make him
5. When he drinks, he tells you you make him miserable.
6. He tells old girlfriends he's only with you because of your child.
I don't want to be harsh, but maybe someone needs to be blunt here. It seems to me that while Your dh is too cowardly to tell you in words (unless he's has enough "liquid courage"), his actions are clearly saying that he doesn't want to be with you.
Have you asked him this? Point blank?
Life is too short to spend it trying to make a relationship where one party stays out of guilt or cowardice work. It's never going to make either person happy. I'm sorry, I know you love him. Are you sure he still loves you (romantically)?post #30 of 315/9/13 at 5:18pmpost #31 of 315/14/13 at 6:53amQuote:Originally Posted by Learning_Mum
I have to agree that it sounds really unhealthy.
From reading your latest posts it sounds like he is abusive and pretty unhappy in the relationship.
Personally I would give him the ultimatum of couples counselling or you separate and I would make sure you stick to it. I honestly feel like he doesn't believe you'll leave him so he's happy just to go along treating you like shit. You may love him but you are worth more than this. You deserve a partner that is an equal who loves you as much as you love him. You deserve so much more and there are so many men out there that would thank god every day that they had you in their life.
I haven't read every single response in detail (not much time) but some things resonated with me, and I've been through a major paradigm shift lately and have an extra sensitive "crap detector" so to speak (I thought I married Mr Wonderful and spent years in major confusion wondering what I did wrong, trying everything that was just never good enough....and it turned out he has narcissistic personality disorder and an abusive, controlling personality that he hid so well in his attempt to keep up a good image to feed his ego. It's really come out in divorce proceedings - I see it so clearly now). I detect a lot of crap in your dh's behaviour. You start off giving him a lot of benefit of the doubt, and as the thread evolves, I can see that you are possibly minimizing and covering-up a lot of very selfish and mean behaviour on his part.
Just a word of caution about couples counselling. It is generally not recommended when there is abuse or power imbalance. It can escalate the situation, or they can use it against you (or it can help them "behave" a while with more overt consideration for a while...but the underlying covertly abusive behaviours are still there - which can make the crazymaking and self doubt worse - and then they feel even more entitled to abuse when they have been Mr. Wonderful again....). I highly recommend the following books, The Verbally Abusive RElationship by Patricia Evans and any book by Lundy Bancroft (Why Does He Do That). They may give you an idea of what is really going on and may give you the validation needed. Of course I don't know what is going on. Just some hunches reading between the lines (BTDT...)
I honestly think the best investment of time and energy is on self-development, self-worth, healthy boundary setting, breaking co-dependent patterns, etc. I don't know if this is an issue for you, but it often is in these types of relationships where women struggle because they find themselves married to a man they thought was Mr. Wonderful but has turned out to actually be quite selfish and abusive. It often comes out after the children are born because they are no longer the centre of attention (and have never had to put their own needs second). Focussing on therapy for yourself can strengthen you and help you to emotionally detach from the situation, in order to think clearly and rationally enough to know if the marriage is worth saving or not. Deep down you probably know the answer to that.
It's important to work with a therapist who works and has a background in verbally abusive dynamics. Otherwise, you could find yourself having even more self doubt (most regular couples therapists operate from the assumption that it's a 2 way thing in a marriage....but in the case of abusive situations, that is not true. So a normal couples counsellor could end up giving your dh more ammunition to use against you). It sounds like you have been doing much more work and investing far more emotional effort. It's ok to give yourself a break from that and turn your energies onto strengthening your own spirit.
Please be very careful. I don't mean to scare you - but him waking you up and whispering hostile things gives me the creeps. Hugs.
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