The Truth About Vaccines At Last.

[lsaunders]

Having been born just after WW2 vaccinations were an absolute 'must' for all babies in the UK. The National Health had arrived and of course everyone's health needs where a very big part of our lives.  My mother insured that both my brother and I had the full vaccines available and so history repeats  it self and I had my children vaccinated as I and most of the population trusted our Government etc.

However, I had recently found that my trust was sorely misplaced and I have advised my daughter not to have my granddaughter vaccinated at all.

This is what I have recently found:

The Vaccine Hoax is Over

 

Freedom of Information Act in the UK filed by a doctor has revealed 30 years of secret official documents showing that government experts have

1. Known the vaccines don’t work
2. Known they cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent
3. Known they are a hazard to children
4. Colluded to lie to the public
5. Worked to prevent safety studies

http://foodfreedomgroup.com/2012/09/29/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-by-andrew-baker/

This is the link to the actual forum website. http://www.ukcolumn.org/forum/health/vaccine-hoax-over

This is from an excellent informative website and although it  is based in the UK please have a look at it.  You will certainly find great information about our world today and our future.  I highly recommend it.   http://www.ukcolumn.org/

Thank you

lsaunders

[prosciencemum]

Thought it might help to post the thread where these documents were discussed before. I thought Pers did a nice analysis of what they actually said (without any anti-vax filter) which some newbies might be interested to read to see another view of this. 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1361925/uk-foi-documents-on-measles-vax

PS. Welcome to Mothering. What vaccine question are you researching? 

[lsaunders]

My interest started when I become aware that mercury was in nearly all vaccines, especially modern day ones.  This is a highly dangerous poison!  Knowing this, why was the WHO allowing this?

I  recently found this article about the connect between pregnant women, mercury and ADHD! It makes interesting reading. http://www.naturalnews.com/038037_pregnancy_vaccines_ADHD.html

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038037_pregnancy_vaccines_ADHD.html#ixzz2NsojVtPA

[lsaunders]

I became aware some time ago that mercury was added to most vaccines - especially to babies and pregnant women.  I recently found this article.  It makes interesting reading. It's title is :

Medical evidence shows that pregnant mothers exposed to mercury in vaccines are more likely to have children with ADHD

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038037_pregnancy_vaccines_ADHD.html#ixzz2NsqG7UKu

This is an issue of great concern as mercury is extremely poisonous.!  Why is this allowed to be put into vaccines.  I suspect there is an alternative agenda here to one of us living a long healthy life!!

[prosciencemum]

It might help people to see the CDC comments on thimerosol in vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

Thimerosol is a mercury containing compound which can act as a preservative for vaccines. It was removed from all pediatric vaccines in the USA starting in 1999, and is now only found in multi-vial doses of the flu shot. It should be easy to completely avoid if you are concerned.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

It might help people to see the CDC comments on thimerosol in vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

Thimerosol is a mercury containing compound which can act as a preservative for vaccines. It was removed from all pediatric vaccines in the USA starting in 1999, and is now only found in multi-vial doses of the flu shot. It should be easy to completely avoid if you are concerned.

there are a LOT more vaccines than just flu that contain thimerosol...here is a link for you to see who makes what, and what's in it

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

It might help people to see the CDC comments on thimerosol in vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

 

It might help people to see how the CDC was caught in lies about thimerosal, as found in information obtained by the Freedom of Information Act:

http://www.bolenreport.com/Mark%20Geier/foiasuit3.htm

"Let me repeat that - EVERY one of the CDC studies showing the so-called safety of mercury in vaccines has been intentionally faked, so as to lead the American Public, and every entity worldwide that relies on the CDC for information, to believe that mercury in vaccines is safe - it is not."

[prosciencemum]

The historical thimerosol content (and date of removal) of vaccines routinely recommended for children is here: 

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#act

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

The historical thimerosol content (and date of removal) of vaccines routinely recommended for children is here: 

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#act

Most of what you say here is extremely misleading.

1) First of all, thimerosal was never "removed" from vaccines. The scientists didn't reach in and grab it and pull it out.  (I thought you said you were a scientist--shouldn't you know this?)

Instead, new pediatric vaccines were prepared in a preservative-free formulation, to be stored in single-use vials.

2) Flu vaccines are now routinely recommended for infants 6 months and older, as well as all children.  Children receive 19 flu vaccines--the majority of which are thimerosal-preserved--by the time they are 18.

In addition, pregnant women are being given flu shots and now other vaccines as well WHILE PREGNANT--and most vaccines for adults are preserved with thimerosal.

3) The date a new vaccine is licensed is not the same as the last date the old vaccine was used.  Manufacturers continue to sell and distribute the "old" vaccine, and physicians continue to use old stores for as long as the use-by date allows.

4) The current autism rate as announced by the CDC (1 in 150) is based on children age 6-17 in  born between 1994-2005.

Nearly all children born 2001 or earlier received thimerosal-preserved vaccines.

Children born between 2001 and 2005 likely received a mix of thimerosal-free and thimerosal-preserved vaccines, but were also more likely to have received (thimerosal-preserved) flu shots as infants, and were also more likely to have been born from mothers who were given (thimerosal-preserved) flu shots during pregnancy.

In addition, the varicella vaccine (introduced in 1995, but not part of the recommended schedule until a few years later) and Rotateq (2006) became part of the pediatric vaccine schedule.

[prosciencemum]

I just provided a link with some information.

Taxi - you seem to be forgetting this is not the debate forum. And we've already debated thimerosol several times (people can use the search feature to find those threads).

The main point for people new to this research is that it's easy to avoid thimerosol now if you're concerned.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

I just provided a link with some information.

Taxi - you seem to be forgetting this is not the debate forum. And we've already debated thimerosol several times (people can use the search feature to find those threads).

The main point for people new to this research is that it's easy to avoid thimerosol now if you're concerned.

Taxi expanded on your point with some very useful information for newbies - including info on current flu vaccines, how autism rates (a hot button issue in the vaccine controversy) are based on a time when thimerosal was present.  This is information I would want if I was new to research. 

I don't interpret "debate free" to mean any poster can say anything they want and expect no one to expand on it, use it as a jumping off point, etc.   What I expect the mods mean (and they can clarify if I am wrong) is that this is not the debate forum, and should not be treated as such.    No newbie should have to wade through the toxic atmosphere that can exist on the debate forum as it is very off-putting to many people.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 3/23/13 at 8:12am

[Mirzam]

30 Scientific Studies Showing the Link between Vaccines and Autism

 

Evidence that vaccines can cause autism

It is an often repeated fallacy that there is no research that supports the supposition that vaccines can cause autism. This talking point is most often repeated by medical personnel and public health officials who have simply never been told that these studies exist, and in some cases by those who refuse to read the information when it is offered to them, so they continue to labor under the false assumption that vaccine autism causation is merely an “internet rumor” or a result of one paper that was published in 1998.

[prosciencemum]

Many of those studies correlate autism with environmental toxins. Or they talk about metallic mercury. It's easy to get confused by stuff like that, but it's just not what Mirzam, or the link she posts, says it is. It is not 30 studies showing links between autism and vaccines.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Many of those studies correlate autism with environmental toxins. Or they talk about metallic mercury. It's easy to get confused by stuff like that, but it's just not what Mirzam, or the link she posts, says it is. It is not 30 studies showing links between autism and vaccines.

prosciencemum, could you please tell us exactly how many studies listed here DO show links between autism and vaccines?   You see, I didn't think the "stuff like that" was confusing at all. However, I found your post to be confusing; on first reading, I thought you were stating that none of the studies support a thimerosal-vaccine connection.  On closer re-reading, I realized that you may have meant something like, "only 29 studies (out of the 30 listed) actually support a thimerosal-vaccine connection."  But it's very hard to tell, since you were never specific.  
 

Could you specify exactly which studies correlate autism with environmental toxins, and could you please explain how an infant injected with several thimerosal-preserved and/or aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in one day has NOT been exposed to environmental toxins via vaccination?

Could you also please tell us how many of these studies do correlate autism with thimerosal?  Please note, I didn't say "prove that thimerosal causes autism." We are discussing the CORRELATION of autism with thimerosal, right?

So how many of these mainstream medical, peer-reviewed studies concluded that there may be a plausible correlation between thimerosal and autism?

[prosciencemum]

Taxi - sure, when i find time I'll look through all 30 more closely. You could help speed that up by telling me the numbers in the list you find most convincing.

I find the IOM review which concluded no evidence for a causal link between thimerosol containing vaccines and autism quite convincing personally.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

30 Scientific Studies Showing the Link between Vaccines and Autism

 

i passed that link along, and the recieving person claimed within TWO minutes how they were able to ascern the entire article and  references at the end of the article are bunk.......wow, speed  reader much?  

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Taxi - sure, when i find time I'll look through all 30 more closely. You could help speed that up by telling me the numbers in the list you find most convincing.

I find the IOM review which concluded no evidence for a causal link between thimerosol containing vaccines and autism quite convincing personally.

Prosciencemum, may I ask that you please refrain from commenting on Mirzam's posted link (30 Scientific Studies Showing the Link Between Vaccines and Autism) when you haven't read the studies?

It does seem like you've been rather combative here.  You posted  very dismissive comments about 30 studies you haven't read, and then couldn't answer my direct questions about them--because you hadn't read them.  Instead of answering my questions, you cited a review that supports your own agenda.

You seem to be forgetting that this is not the debate forum.

After you have read all 30 studies, I would really appreciate it if you could answer my exact questions.  If you've forgotten them, I would be happy to repost them for you.

[prosciencemum]

Taxi - if I may politely suggest that an effective way to debate in a non combatative way my statement (which was based on skimming, but I admit not carefully reading the list of 30 studies which were posted) would be to say something like:

"I disagree that these 30 studies are mostly about environmental mercury, or unrelated to autism, because A, B and C (or however many you like of the 30) seem like very good peer reviewed proof of a link between thimerosol and autism to me. "

I have already agreed to read through the list more carefully and post back a more detailed review of what each study is about.

Athough my main point for beginners to the question was to not accept blindly the presentation of that list as all being directly proof of a link between autism and thimerosol in vaccines. I hope we can all agree that skeptical reading of material presented as either pro- or anti-vaccine is really important.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Taxi - if I may politely suggest that an effective way to debate in a non combatative way my statement (which was based on skimming, but I admit not carefully reading the list of 30 studies which were posted) would be to say something like:

"I disagree that these 30 studies are mostly about environmental mercury, or unrelated to autism, because A, B and C (or however many you like of the 30) seem like very good peer reviewed proof of a link between thimerosol and autism to me. "

I have already agreed to read through the list more carefully and post back a more detailed review of what each study is about.

Athough my main point for beginners to the question was to not accept blindly the presentation of that list as all being directly proof of a link between autism and thimerosol in vaccines. I hope we can all agree that skeptical reading of material presented as either pro- or anti-vaccine is really important.

Prosciencemum, I am not debating you here.

I asked that you refrain from commenting on studies that you have not read.  I don't think it's helpful to beginners who are researching here to do so, and it smacks of pushing your own agenda.

I also asked that you read all 30 studies and then answer my questions.   

You are certainly free to write a detailed review of what each study is about, but that will not answer my questions, and seems to be a way to both avoid doing so and to achieve your own agenda, which is not appropriate here.

[glowby]

Hi Taximom!

Hi Prosciencemum!

I was researching this particular web article ("30 Scientific Studies Showing the Link between Vaccines and Autism") when I stumbled across your conversation. I've spent the last few hours investigating its claims. My comments are mainly about the details in the article itself - its claims and text - but I dug deeper when it seemed to be warranted. The article contains portions of abstracts and quotes from the cited research that the article's author thought were most convincing to the anti-vaccine crowd. In most cases, further research seemed a waste of time, as you'll see.

It's much worse than Prosciencemum suspected. Only 2 of the 30 studies actually try to connect vaccines with autism in a scientific manner. If you were to decide a debate simply based on the blatant dishonesty of one side or the other ... this would rack up a lot of points for the pro-vaccine side.

Anyway, here's what I found ...

1. Hepatitis B Vaccination of Male Neonates and Autism

>>The "kids" in the study were as old as 17 at the time the study's surveys were taken (from 1997-2002). The Hepatitis B vaccine wasn't fully implemented until 1996 (according to the study's authors). Among those suffering from ADS, only 9 of 31 (29%) had been exposed to the vaccine. Autism rarely shows after age 2.

-----

2. Porphyrinuria in childhood autistic disorder: Implications for environmental toxicity

>>Implicates mercury from purely environmental (non-vaccine) sources.

-----

3. Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes—A review

>>Implicates mercury from purely environmental (non-vaccine) sources.

-----

4. Uncoupling of ATP-mediated Calcium Signaling and Dysregulated IL-6 Secretion in Dendritic Cells by Nanomolar Thimerosal

>>About the relationship between Thimerosal and dendritic cells - a potential sign of immune system dysregulation. No connection to autism was investigated or suggested.

-----

5. Gender-selective toxicity of thimerosal.

>>A study of MTD (maximum tolerable dose a.k.a. dangerous/lethal dose) of very high amounts of Thimerosal in mice and their comparative effects between male and female mice. No connection to autism was investigated or suggested.

-----

6. Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal

>>A study examining comparative residual effects of ethyl- vs. methylmercury doses in monkeys. Corresponding or causal effects of autism in monkeys or humans was not investigated (although strongly asserted in the report's conclusions).

-----

7. Increases in the number of reactive glia in the visual cortex of Macaca fascicularis following subclinical long-term methyl mercury exposure.

>>A report about very high continuous doses of methy- and ethylmercury in monkeys. No connection to autism was investigated or suggested.

-----

8. Neuroglial Activation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism

>>Neither vaccines nor mercury compounds are studied in this research.

-----

9. Autism: A Brain Disorder, or A Disorder That Affects the Brain?

>>Implicates mercury from unspecified sources.

-----

10. Activation of Methionine Synthase by Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 and Dopamine: a Target for Neurodevelopmental Toxins and Thimerosal

>>Implicates ethanol, lead, mercury, and aluminum as possible inhibitors of methylation. No connection to autism was investigated or suggested.

-----

11. Validation of the Phenomenon of Autistic Regression Using Home Videotapes

>>Neither vaccines nor mercury compounds are studied in this research.

-----

12. Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism: A Reanalysis of an Important Data Set

>>A review of another study, challenging its analysis of levels of mercury from unspecified sources in ADS persons.

-----

13. Developmental Regression and Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Child With Autism

>>No mercury compounds are studied in this research. Implicates both infections and immunizations as agents of mitochondrial dysfunction. A connection with autism is suggested but not investigated.

-----

14. Oxidative Stress in Autism: Elevated Cerebellar 3-nitrotyrosine Levels

>>Implicates mercury from unspecified sources.

-----

15. Large Brains in Autism: The Challenge of Pervasive Abnormality

>>Implicates heavy metals, but not specifically mercury, from unspecified sources.

-----

16. Evidence of Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Neuronal Insult in Autism

>>Implicates unspecified toxins and "oxidative stress and neuronal insult", but not specifically mercury, from unspecified sources.

-----

17. Oxidative Stress in Autism

>>Implicates "oxidative stress", but not specifically mercury, from unspecified sources.

>>(Same "researchers" as in #16.)

-----

18. Thimerosal Neurotoxicity is Associated with Glutathione Depletion: Protection with Glutathione Precursors

>>Implicates oxidants as a cause of glutathione depletion. A connection to autism was suggested but not investigated.

-----

19. Aluminum adjuvant linked to gulf war illness induces motor neuron death in mice

>>Neither mercury nor autism are addressed in this research.

-----

20. Environmental mercury release, special education rates, and autism disorder: an ecological study of Texa

>>Implicates mercury from purely environmental (non-vaccine) sources.

-----

21. Autism Spectrum Disorders in Relation to Distribution of Hazardous Air Pollutants in the SF Bay Area

>>Implicates heavy metals, mercury, cadmium, nickel, trichloroethylene, and vinyl chloride from unspecified sources.

-----

22. A Case Series of Children with Apparent Mercury Toxic Encephalopathies Manifesting with Clinical Symptoms of Regressive Autistic Disorder

>>Implicates mercury from unspecified sources. No connection to autism was investigated.

-----

23. Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and blood mercury level: a case-control study in chinese children

>>Implicates mercury from unspecified sources. "Whether the relationship is causal requires further studies.” No connection to autism was investigated or suggested.

-----

24. The Changing Prevalence of Autism In California

>>No vaccines or mercury compounds are studied in this research. It challenges the idea that increasing diagnoses of ADS are due to diagnostic substitution.

-----

25. Mitochondrial Energy-Deficient Endophenotype in Autism

>>No vaccines or mercury compounds are studied in this research.

-----

26. Bridging from Cells to Cognition in Autism Pathophysiology: Biological

>>No vaccines or mercury compounds are studied in this research.

-----

27. Heavy-Metal Toxicity—With Emphasis on Mercury

No specific connection with ADS is considered in this research.

-----

28. Evidence of Mitochondrial Dysfunction in Autism and Implications for Treatment

>>No vaccines or mercury compounds are studied in this research.

-----

29. Proximity to point sources of environmental mercury release as a predictor of autism prevalence

>>Implicates mercury from unspecified sources. "Nothing is known about specific exposure routes, dosage, timing, and individual susceptibility."

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30. Epidemiology of autism spectrum disorder in Portugal: prevalence, clinical characterization, and medical conditions

>>No vaccines or mercury compounds are studied in this research.