Parents want the truth about the flu vaccine - Page 2

[prosciencemum]

Taxi - you don't need to pick on Rrrrrachel - I provided it again. Did you read it?

[Escaping]

Does anyone know if a study exists where they focus on only kids with autism?

[Taximom5]

I thought it might be helpful to repost my question, and the responses from the pro-vax side, in order of posting.

My new responses on this particular post are highlighted in blue.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Nothing to do with the flu vaccine used here in the US?  Are you certain?  Did you research every ingredient, every possible source of contamination, every lab that was used, to be sure that none of the vaccines share ANYTHING?

Have they determined exactly what ingredient in Pandemrix was responsible for the narcolepsy reactions?

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


Pretty sure they've concluded it was the adjuvant.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Could you please post a source?

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Taxi - I'm answering for Rrrrrachel. 

Here's a link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/pandemrix-narcolepsy-swine-flu-shot-britain_n_2588859.html

Here's a quote:

Here's another link (to Elizabeth Miller's published article): http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f794

And another quote: 

 

 

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Nothing to do with the flu vaccine used here in the US?  Are you certain?  Did you research every ingredient, every possible source of contamination, every lab that was used, to be sure that none of the vaccines share ANYTHING?

Have they determined exactly what ingredient in Pandemrix was responsible for the narcolepsy reactions?

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


Pretty sure they've concluded it was the adjuvant.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Could you please post a source?

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I already did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Could you please provide a link plus a quote, so we know exactly who concluded that it was the adjuvant, exactly which adjuvant it was, and exactly how they determined this.

thank you.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Taxi - I'm answering for Rrrrrachel. 

Here's a link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/pandemrix-narcolepsy-swine-flu-shot-britain_n_2588859.html

This does not say anywhere that they determined that it was the adjuvant itself that was responsible for the narcolepsy cases. -T

Here's another link (to Elizabeth Miller's published article): http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f794

This study does not say anywhere that they determined that it was the adjuvant itself that was responsible for the narcolepsy cases. -T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Taxi I've already posted the only source I'm going to. Feel free to draw your own conclusions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

I'm mystified as to why you refuse to answer a simple request.

You were the one who said that "they" (whoever "they" are ) had determined that it was the adjuvant in Pandemrix that caused the narcolepsy cases.

I would like to know WHO determined that it was specifically the adjuvant in Pandemrix (and not some other ingredient or combination of ingredients) that had caused the narcolepsy cased, and HOW they came to that conclusion.

I'm just asking you to provide both a link and a quote so that I can better understand this.

If you feel that you have already provided exactly the information I'm requesting, perhaps you could be so kind as to copy and paste it into a reply?

thanks so much!

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Taxi - you don't need to pick on Rrrrrachel - I provided it again. Did you read it?

 

 

 

 

Yes, psm, I read it.  

 

First of all, I did not pick on Rrrrachel, and I resent your accusation.  I asked her for a direct answer to my question (which was based

 

on HER assertion)., and I did not  receive  one.  So I asked again.  Twice.  And very nicely, too.

 

 

For the sake of clarity, I'll repeat my question:

 

 

I would like to know WHO determined that it was specifically the adjuvant in Pandemrix (and not some other ingredient or

 

combination of ingredients) that had caused the narcolepsy cased, and HOW they came to that conclusion.  (bolded for ease of

 

understanding)

 

 

 

 

 

Neither of the links you provided pinpointed the adjuvant itself as the cause of the narcolepsy cases.  In fact, they did not pinpoint any

 

ingredients at all. The HuffPo article only mentions that the vaccine was Pandemrix (which we already knew.  It does not mention

 

which ingredient or ingredients may have been a cause.  The second link, the study, describes the vaccine as "ASO3 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 vaccine."

 

They don't even pretend to have proved that it was the adjuvant that caused the narcolepsy cases.  In fact, they don't mention whether they were even looking at individual ingredients or combinations of ingredients as potential causes.

 

So my question remains unanswered, and Rrrrrachel and prosciencemum are either providing links that don't answer my

question, or refusing to answer at all.  

 

Yep, business as usual around here.

[prosciencemum]

As far as I'm aware the main thing different about this flu vaccine and others which are not linked to increased rates of narcolepsy is the adjuvant.

So if its all the same except the adjuvant them the culprit has got to be the adjuvant.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

As far as I'm aware the main thing different about this flu vaccine and others which are not linked to increased rates of narcolepsy is the adjuvant.

So if its all the same except the adjuvant them the culprit has got to be the adjuvant.

How very unscientific of you.

The culprit may be the adjuvant.  Perhaps it is even very likely that it is the adjuvant.

Or it may be a contamination issue; perhaps one of the vaccine ingredients came from a contaminated batch.

Or it may be a multifactorial issue: an ingredient in the vaccine combined with another environmental exposure, perhaps something some of the children were eating, or a particular cleaning spray used at home, or in the pediatrician's office, or some other environmental exposure.

Or it could have been an ingredient in the vaccine combined with another environmental exposure combined with a genetic predisposition.

Or it could have been an ingredient in the vaccine combined with a defective batch of infant formula, or a defective batch of children's multivitamins, perhaps causing vitamin D deficiency that would be a recipe for disaster with this particular vaccine.

There are all kinds of possibilites.  That's why I asked the question (which neither you nor Rrrrrachel answered), "Who determined that it was specifically the adjuvant in Pandemrix that caused the narcolepsy cases, and how did they come to that conclusion."

But in any case, what we have here is a vaccine that caused some dangerous, life-changing disorders--and they have not yet stated what in the vaccine is the cause, despite Rrrrrachel's assertion, and your assumption.   

[Rrrrrachel]

I didn't assert anything, taxi.

[serenbat]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I didn't assert anything, taxi.

 Rrrrrachel you must have forgotten you posted this- 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


Pretty sure they've concluded it was the adjuvant.

 

looks clear to me! ADJUVANT was asserted according to Rrrrrachel and also prosciencemum

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

So if its all the same except the adjuvant them the culprit has got to be the adjuvant.