Vaccinating pregnant women "halves the risk of pertussis in infants' first four months" - A...

[Mirzam]

This is a great, clear article on the pertussis vaccine and why it doesn't work as advertised. Dr Humphries goes into great detail about original antigentic sin (now know as linked epitope expression - same thing), a concept our pro-vaxers like to conveniently ignore, but it is a very important reason why the pertussis component in the various DTP vaccines is failing. It is also relevant to to increasing problem of parapertussis infection.

The reason immunologists and vaccine scientists don’t talk about “original antigenic sin” is because if they had to explain to the public just what that meant in principle and in practical fact, they’d have to explain that vaccination breaches a fundamental immunological tenet. Not only would they have to admit that whooping cough vaccine immunity is vastly inferior, but that vaccine immunity has immunologic unintended consequences in the future. As an aside, OAS is also a factor in morbidity of the influenza vaccinated when H1N1 infection arrived.[11][12]

The real protection of young infants comes from maternal antibodies derived from natural infection, not sub-optimal vaccine immunity.

The reason for the perceived need to vaccinate mothers is BECAUSE they have lost their vaccine-induced pseudoimmunity, BECAUSE they were vaccinated.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/03/21/vaccinating-pregnant-women-halves-the-risk-of-pertussis-in-infants-first-four-months-a-critique-by-dr-suzanne-humphries/

Edited by Mirzam - 3/22/13 at 7:44am

[Marnica]

Mirzam - would love to read it but don't see a link? 

am I just blind?

[Mirzam]

No you are not blind, I was posting this at the same time as cooking breakfast and getting two kids off to school. Not a good idea. 

Here is the link, I'll post it in OP too.

[Emotivast]

The reliance on Tdap boosters throughout life for 'protection' and now the 2013 recommendation of administeration within EVERY pregnancy is getting to the point of absurdity.

The Perfect Storm: How the increase in pertussis vaccine usage is causing an 'epidemic'

http://blindedbythelightt.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-perfect-storm-how-increase-in.html

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

No you are not blind, I was posting this at the same time as cooking breakfast and getting two kids off to school. Not a good idea. 

Here is the link, I'll post it in OP too.

Great article. Thanks!

[Taximom5]

Of course, I'd wonder if vaxing pregnant women would result in a lower incidence of pertussis in the first four months simply because it also resulted in a significantly higher rate of miscarriage.  

If mom is vaxed during pregnancy, and the pregnancy does not result in a live birth, abracadabra, that vaccine administration clearly did not cause an infant pertussis case.

[Rrrrrachel]

Taxi you really think scientists are complete idiots, don't you.

[pek64]

It doesn't matter what anyone *thinks* about scientists. What matters is what scientists *do*. Haven't there been studies showing pertussis vaccine is not as effective as it's claimed? Why push for *more* use of a vaccine that is already questionable?

[prosciencemum]

You push it because its more effective than doing nothing - by which I mean it demonstrably saves newborns from dying of whooping cough. That's why.

Would be nice if was more effective and saved more lives I agree - but not doing something because it only saves some of the babies is ridiculous.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

You push it because its more effective than doing nothing - by which I mean it demonstrably saves newborns from dying of whooping cough. That's why.

Would be nice if was more effective and saved more lives I agree - but not doing something because it only saves some of the babies is ridiculous.

Debatable. Given the information (from medical science) as evidenced in the above article, the vaccine, in fact, is likely to be causing way more harm than good and actually be the cause of the deaths of young infants. 

Yet another post that completely disregards OAS/Limited Epitope Expression. When are you people going to recognized this issue?

[pek64]

Demonstrably? The way it was demonstrated to prevent pertussis in the first place?

Fetal brains should get the chance to develop in as optimal an environment as possible, making limiting toxin exposure preferable. Quality of life has as much importance as quantity of life. Sacrificing or threatening quality of life is not an acceptable trade off for having a lower death rate. And as Taxi said, if the bab dies in a miscarriage, that child doesn't get counted as dying from pertussis, but either way there's a loss of life!

[prosciencemum]

The vaccine does not have 0% efficacy. I know that for sure. So yes it prevents newborns from getting whooping cough, and therefore saves lives.

I don't believe there's any good evidence that vaccinating women with this vaccine does any harm to the fetus and causes any increase in miscarriage rate. You can assume that it does if you like, but I need more proof than that.

[pek64]

And I need more proof that there is significant benefit with virtually no risk. Otherwise, I prefer the risk of illness that is not successfully eliminated by an immune system that has had thousands of years of testing and improving already.

[Mirzam]

And still you (PSM and the vocal pro-vaxers) ignore the inconvenient truth of OAS. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Taxi you really think scientists are complete idiots, don't you.

No, I don't think so.  Nice straw man, though.

For those who are curious:

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-straw-man-argument.htm

"The straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument. The person does this because it then becomes easier to knock down the weaker version of the opposing argument with one's more substantial counter argument."

Here is an example of a straw man argument in this hypothetical situation between a kid and his mom:

Kid: "Can we get a dog?"
Mom: "No."
Kid: "It would protect us."
Mom: "Sorry, I still say no."
Kid: "Why do you want to leave us and our house unprotected?"

So, folks, shall we get back to the real discussion at hand? WITHOUT straw men, please.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

And still you (PSM and the vocal pro-vaxers) ignore the inconvenient truth of OAS. 

Heck, they ignore ALL the inconvenient truths regarding vaccines.  They minimize the very real damage that vaccines do, they ignore the poor efficacy, they ignore the corruption, they ignore the lies, they ignore the INSANE financial conflicts of interest surrounding the so-called "science," and they do their best to vilify every researcher and scientist who dares to criticize vaccine efficacy/safety.

I used to think that I could forgive those who really believe that vaccines are safe and effective. I used to believe that well-meaning, caring people would never intentionally hurt parents and their vaccine-injured children, and that I must forgive them, because they simply don't know, having been so thoroughly steeped in propaganda.  

I used to think that it wasn't really their fault, that they really do mean well.  And that the ones I couldn't forgive were the CEO's of the vaccine companies, because they are the ones who hiding the truth.

I'm past that now.

G_d help me, I've reached the point where I can't forgive any of them any more.

I can't forgive the people who, knowingly or unknowingly, add strength to a lie, and use it, deliberately or not, to harm more people, not as long as they are still doing so.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm curious, taxi, if you've made the dress out of your curtains yet.

Some people are just evil.  I'm learning to accept that evil people don't always seem evil on the outside.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm curious, taxi, if you've made the dress out of your curtains yet.

What is wrong with you?!?!?!?

This remark is rude and obnoxious!

You should be banned from mothering.

[Rrrrrachel]

Here's some info on OAS from cidrap. It's definitely an interesting phenomenon that's worth reading up on.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/swineflu/news/aug1809originalpwm.html

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Here's some info on OAS from cidrap. It's definitely an interesting phenomenon that's worth reading up on.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/swineflu/news/aug1809originalpwm.html

The above article is about OAS in relation to viruses, as you must beware the pertussis is a bacteria and the vaccine is a toxoid.  As you likely didn't bother to read Dr Humphries' article I will add some more information or you on ACT (adenylate cyclase toxin):

Here’s how ACT works: Once whooping cough bacteria attaches to cells in the bronchi, a gene in the bacteria switches on and as a result, ACT toxin which acts like a force-field against the immune system, is produced. ACT stops the immune system from recognizing the bacteria and gives the bacteria about a two week advantage until the immune system wakes up to the fact it has been duped. In the case of natural whooping cough immunity, ACT or adenylate cyclase toxin forms the basis of the initial immune response. That front-line immune response is not only critical for eliminating the first round of pertussis bacteria, but also crucial for removing the bacteria upon later reinfection.

ACT is not an ingredient in the pertussis vaccine.

In natural immunity the body reacts very strongly to ACT, but because of original antigenic sin, and the absence of ACT in the vaccine, the vaccinated are not programmed to respond at all to it. Vaccines do not boost antibody to this toxin because as of yet, nobody has figured how to put that antigen into the vaccine. The naturally convalesced have over 17 times the amount of antibody to ACT than DTaP recipients have, and more than 9 times what DTP vaccinated have as measured after pertussis infection.[7] There is only a miniscule level of ACT antibody in the vaccinated, which is the result of their immune system’s paralyzed effort to mount a response after programming by the vaccine.