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"More Educated Parents Less Likely To Vaccinate and Feed Children Sugar and GMO Foods" - Page 2

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
 

I think when people bring up the fact that non-vaxxers tend to be more educated (as the title says) it is often because we are accused so often of being stupid people who do not understand science. 

 

I am very solidly middle class (by anyones standards) and have a Bachelors degree, fwiw.

 

When I initially made some of my vax decisions I was low income.  


Edited by kathymuggle - 4/5/13 at 12:22pm
post #22 of 34
Purely in response to the article, I would be interested to know what fields in higher ed are associated with lower vax rates. A PhD in literature does not have as much knowledge of immunology, physiology, epidemiology as someone with just a BA or BS in biology.
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Purely in response to the article, I would be interested to know what fields in higher ed are associated with lower vax rates. A PhD in literature does not have as much knowledge of immunology, physiology, epidemiology as someone with just a BA or BS in biology.


Meaning?
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Purely in response to the article, I would be interested to know what fields in higher ed are associated with lower vax rates. A PhD in literature does not have as much knowledge of immunology, physiology, epidemiology as someone with just a BA or BS in biology.

It has been my experience that more educated people are more likely to ask questions from professionals, and that less well educated people are more likely to do what they are told.  More educated people (I would include self-educated as well) are more likely to know their rights.  This is across the board and not just in relation to health matters.  

 

This is in general, of course.  

 

I do not think I know as much about immunology and physiology as someone with professional experience in those areas, however I also know a lot more about my body, my philosophy towards health and my tolerance to risk than any professional.  

 

I will echo Pek, though, and ask what your point is?

post #25 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I think when people bring up the fact that non-vaxxers tend to be more educated (as the title says) it is often because we are accused so often of being stupid people who do not understand science. 

 

I am very solidly middle class (by anyones standards) and have a Bachelors degree, fwiw.

 

When I initially made some of my vax decisions I was low income.  

 

Yes, I remember reading a different article quite some time ago that said low income and/or uneducated people were thought to be the ones who were not vaccinating and when they looked into it, they actually found that a large majority of non-vaxers were in fact higher income, educated people.

post #26 of 34
My point is just what I said. Just because a person has a degree does not mean they must be making the best decisions in this case. People with only a high school education are usually not under the misperception that they have a good grasp of immunology, and are more open to following public health guidelines. Someone with a liberal arts BA may have equivalent knowledge of science as the high school graduate, but they are "educated" so they make their own guidelines and go with what feels right. Dunning-Kreuger effect. You don't know what you don't know.
post #27 of 34
edited as the inappropriately placed post was poofed…..

Edited by kathymuggle - 4/6/13 at 3:43pm
post #28 of 34
Well, I do think people who have devoted their lives to a field should be paid attention to. And that there is value in devoting yourself to a field and being evaluated rigorously by others in the field. AND there comes a point when experts will be right, and novices will be wrong; and that on rarer occasions, having fresh eyes on a topic brings new and invaluable insights. (Example, Jane Goodall! Total self-taught primatologist, got dropped off in Gombe and revolutionized the field.) but I don't like this review making it sound like in general, highly educated people tend not to vaccinate. If 99.9% of infectious disease physicians vaccinate their kids vs 5% of masters of fine arts grads, well, that doesn't tell me that not vaccinating is the better informed, "smarter" choice.
post #29 of 34
Seems to me that more and less educated parents might be similarly likely to question vaccines, but that more educated parents may be less likely to accept the flimsy and dumbed down responses (fraught with logical fallacies- appeal to emotion, appeal to authority, etc) doctors and health authorities give as reassurance of safety. I agree that the expertise of someone who has specialized in a particular field is due a measure of respect, but I don't think anyone should defer to all of a doctor's advice just because of his/her degree.

Also, I don't necessarily agree that what field a person has studied makes one more or less capable of making informed healthcare decisions for one's family. I think we are all capable of gathering information from a number of sources and deciding- regardless of whether we have a background in the sciences.

I think it is important to realize that the way parents are spoken to by doctors also varies by the parents' SES. A physician addressing a highly educated, confident, and articulate person is less likely to use some of the more heavy handed, pushy, persuasion techniques that bully people into compliance. It is easier to bully people if THEY believe they're inferior, and many people do feel this way with doctors.

I've been both the young uneducated mother, and the older, well educated one, and there is a world of difference.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Well, I do think people who have devoted their lives to a field should be paid attention to. 

Where do you draw the line?

Doctors who have devoted their lives to medicine have, with the very best of intentions, recommended all kinds of treatments that turned out to be unnecessary, ineffective, and unsafe.

 

Many of us have discovered that some vaccines fall into this category.  There are plenty of peer-reviewed, mainstream scientific studies that show this.

 

The fact that the doctors who recommend the full schedule "have devoted their lives to their field" does not make those vaccines any less unnecessary, ineffective, or unsafe.  The fact that doctors who "have devoted their lives to their field" have ended up as paid spokesmen for an the pharmaceutical industry--an industry whose bottom line is profits-- calls the whole system into question.

 

The fact that the health care industry, the health insurance industry, and the pharmaceutical industry are all rife with corruption, with the prime focus being profits rather than safety, trumps the best intentions of the doctors.  Doctors are educated in a system where paid consultants with the pharmaceutical industry are in charge of what's taught.  Medical schools, nursing schools, the professors who teach there, the research that's done there--all funded by and often directed by the pharmaceutical industry.  The same is true for the continuing medical education credits needed for board certification.

 

The checks and balances that are supposed to prevent conflicts of interest, corruption, etc., are basically just a puppet show, as the government agencies that are supposed to BE watchdogs over the industry are staffed by members of the industry.

 

I used to assume that the doctors who devoted their lives to their field knew what was best for me and my children, by reason of their education and experience.  MY experience has taught me that, in the case of far too many doctors, their pharma-directed education combined with the pharma-funded insurance industry left them unable to see past their prescription pads.

post #31 of 34
Thread Starter 

ITA with Taximom5.

 

 

 

Quote:
I used to assume that the doctors who devoted their lives to their field knew what was best for me and my children, by reason of their education and experience.  MY experience has taught me that, in the case of far too many doctors, their pharma-directed education combined with the pharma-funded insurance industry left them unable to see past their prescription pads.

Amen.

post #32 of 34

I can see Katie8681's point on this.  Education in one field doesn't always translate to being educated.  As I posted before I have many friends who are very educated - BA, MA, PhD - some in the medical field, some not, who have never questioned a doctor before, never researched vaxes, yet they are highly educated, very well off individuals.  I know people who are far less educated (my DH barely made it through high school) who have taken a path of questioning.  Between DH and I, we're somewhere around lower middle to avg middle class.  My background was based in the conventional sciences as a pre-vet major until I changed paths from medical to behavioral, I didn't know to question until a bad experience with my animals led me down that path.  No way of knowing if they hadn't been sick if I'd have come this far.  I think regardless of education level there is a trigger that has to occur for someone to buck the system.  For many it's personal experience - vax injuries, fed up with lack of answers.  For others maybe its a talk with a friend who doesn't vax or reading something that piques your interest an leads down the rabbit hole.  So perhaps there is some truth to the article, but it's not the whole picture.

post #33 of 34

{Just because a person has a degree does not mean they must be making the best decisions in this case..... Dunning-Kreuger effect. You don't know what you don't know.}

 

I am sorry but Katies post stinks. The entire post where she says this is EXTREMELY offensive. It is aimed right at not vaxing. Why is she arguing that education isn't helping them make the best decision, followed by a Dunning-Kreuger? That means: is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

 

I take that to mean that she thinks anyone with an education that decided NOT to vax is suffering from illusory superiority since they aren't "educated" in the Right field and making the "best decisions" on this subject.irked.gif

 

 

I personally feel the point of the article was just to see who is more likely to take the non vax route simply because they parroted for years that it was all UN-educated, low class (insert whatever kind of insult they wished to say here) who almost had no choice-who went down this no vax path. 

*Seeing it was actually people who were educated making the decision on PURPOSE is more of the point I believe.*

 

S

ds-13

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post #34 of 34

As I stated earlier in the thread, debating this topic here is not appropriate. While it might be a topic that can be debated amongst INV members if it is done in the interest of the support nature of this forum but that's not what appears to be happening here.

 

Katie8681, please check your PM for a warning from me in this regard. 

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