The "Soy" article in this issue's 'Mothering' - Page 6

[tricia80]

Tofu is great for babies.. i have read numerous articles... tofu is the least processed and actually quite easy to make at home.... jus make sure they come from NON-GMO organic soybeans....

[cathe]

jkstewart - I wouldn't worry about giving tofu as a finger food. It has good nutrients and your baby would not eat enought to have any ill effects. The danger of soy is in overuse (just like many other foods).

[jkstewart]

Ill Effects?

Cathe - Thanks for your advice, one more question; you said - the amount I would feed my baby wouldn't be enough to HARM (ill effects) him... I always thought that tofu was BENEFICIAL to our systems......... I am so confused? I am a vegetarian and have thought that TVP and 'fake meat' was a godsend. I feed my baby peas and beans and other sources of protien, but it is only partially digested... the low-sodium 'burgers' with 15 grams of protien, seemed like the perfect solution (btw he will not eat cottage cheese).... I knew that the processed food was better than meat but not great... so I have been giving him plain baked tofu... and now it sounds like that tofu is just as bad......

and in response to candiland's comment about disgusting meat substitute products... isn't WAY better than eating REAL disgusting meat?

I know the old addage: everything in moderation.... and the logic that even too much orange juice could be detremental BUT no one would ever drink THAT much... so when it comes to Soy walking the fine line between good for you and detremental.... what is the cut off? And what types of soy... tofu and soy milk, soy yogurt and such can't be as bad as boca burgers or TVP- or are they.... when people say limit soy, is that ALL forms?

[tricia80]

Ok overly processed food is gross if consumed daily at all meals.... TVP, tamari, Miso, Tofu, Tempeh, etc are all good for you.. you would have to consume soo much that its not possible to do so to get all the ill effects of soy... its a very high amount... and has to be all bad sources.... like the overly processed kind.. we are all aware that overly processed any type of food is not healthy.. it has who knows what in it... but i would never stop eating veggie burgers, fake meat, etc cuz well i like them.. do i consume them every single day 3x a day.. umm nooo... and Soy is good if its NON-GMO organic soybeans.. and most soy milks up here at least are all NON-GMO so i really dont have to worry.. the only one i know of off hand that isnt is Sensational Soy... Whole foods is the best but not everyone has time to make everything from scratch..

ok thats my .02 for the moment...

[cathe]

I don't know that I agree about fake meat being okay - I used to use TVP but read some disturbing stuff about them - first of all TVP and other fake meat products use soy isolates which is created using very high temps which basically leaves the bad stuff in the soy without the good. Also, I understand that TVP contains a form of MSG. Personally, I would rather eat fish and eggs than eat fake meat products because I don't like to eat processed stuff. (Please don't jump on me for this - this was a personal decision that I'm not trying to push on anyone else.)

As for tofu, tempeh, miso, naturally fermented soy sauce - I think they are all good foods, high in protein and nutrients. We eat those regularly.

[tricia80]

[QUOTE=cathe]I don't know that I agree about fake meat being okayQUOTE]


Ok im lost who said fake meat is ok?? its overly processed and not good for you... i personally still consume some... not everyday or every week.. but once in a while i like a good veggieburger...

[jkstewart]

protein sources

Thanks you two for all the great advice. The article in Mothering really upset me. When I was pregnant with my son, and did not have a taste for, or want to eat meat. I ate the fake stuff everyday.... now learning all this new information, what is a girl to do the next time a baby is on the way? Besides miso,tofu etc... are there any really good sources of protein (besides meat or fake meat) If I remember correctly you are supposed to get 60g a day of protein when you are expecting... I do eat a lot of beans - but they don't have 15g of protein a serving..... .....

[cathe]

Sorry - I guess I read your post too fast the first time - now that I read it over I see that's not what you are saying. That's what happens when I try to do 5 things at once. I just saw the line TVP being good for you and 'i would never stop eating fake meat' and my fingers started writing. Sorry, I took them out of context.

[tricia80]

protein is not an issue.... especially if your vegan or vegetarian...the problem is our society is intaking way tooo much protein.... everything has protein in it.... if you alot of fruits, veggies, beans, tofu, grains, etc there are alot of high protein meals without soy in it... there is actually a thread on it.. i will find it and bump it...

[cathe]

jksteward - I am in the process of fininishing up a cookbook for vegetarian pregnant and breastfeeding women. The latest recommend daily allowance is actually 71 grams of protein per day! I have been working with several midwives and nutritionists (specializing in vegetarian/vegan diets) on this book. They all stress the importance of protein. In fact, protein and B12 were the nutrients they say many pregnant veggie woman are lacking.

Here are some other sources of protein besides soy (and by the way - the vegan nutritionist recommends 1 to 3 servings of soy products per day).

Beans and legumes (try burrittos, tamale pie, bean loaf or burgers, soups, etc.)
Nutritional yeast flakes (also good source of B vitamins and you can get b12 fortified)
nuts and seeds (use nut or seed butter instead of butter on toast, grind nuts and seeds and add to cereals, baked goods, sprinkle over grains)
whole grains, especially quinoa, millet, amaranth, oats, and buckwheat)

If you want any specific recipes, you can pm me and I'll send you some. I have a recipe for a high-protein porridge, tempeh rueben, and a meal shake that you might like.

[jkstewart]

Perfect - but that is what I am talking about

Cathe- I knew the protein amount was high 71grams -WOW - Thanks for the information... I was on the phone with a good friend (and Mothering reader) talking about sources of protein during pregnancy and all that. But here is the catch.... I feel so conflicted now when I read/hear statements like "and by the way - the vegan nutritionist recommends 1 to 3 servings of soy products per day" THAT is what is confusing me.... I have heard nothing but good things about soy (tofu and meat replacement stuff) until yesterday.....
Oh well, I am a big bean eater, and I am a firm believer in wheat germ! Thank you for re-afirming me!

[Attached Mamma]

The latest recommend daily allowance is actually 71 grams of protein per day!

I believe the recommended intake of protein depends on weight. What I have read is 1/2 gram per pound of body weight.

[Meiri]

bump for those as need to read without us all rehashing this again.

[TigerTail]

ot- some of us think a lovely bison burger is not in the least nasty (and i have fed my kids plenty of boca burgers, etc, and i know what they prefer.)

suse

[ericaz]

just wanted to report that sally fallon is aware of the soy article and wrote about it in the spring 2004 Wise Traditions magazine.

here is the qoute found in the Soy Alert! section:

MOTHERING ARTICLE
The May issue of Mothering Magazine carried an excellent summary of soy dangers by Kaayla Daniel, PhD, author of The Whole Soy Story (NewTrends, Summer 2004). The article provoked a storm of letters, some supportive and some in whiny complaint that a major magazine would dare to air anything negative about soy. Mark Messina, John Robbins and Brian Strom, all advocates of eating lots of soy (Strom was principle author of a white-wash study on soy infant formula), wrote long letters of complaint. Look for Dr. Daniel's excellent responses in the July issue of Mothering.

[ChristaN]

Legitimate researchers should not refer to all dissenting opinions as "whiny." That itself does not speak highly of Ms. Fallon for me. There were some legitimate, non-whiny responses posted here; many of these critical responses refered to actual research that the posters did not misinterpret in order to support their points (Dr. Daniels did misrepresent research in a number of instances in her article). Although I haven't seen the responses to which Ms. Fallon refers, I can't imagine that they are nothing but whining. Calling names is unprofessional.

[tricia80]

uhh ohh i dont like the term "whiny" either... very unprofessional... sounds like someone thinks they are a know it all.... i hate ppl who think they are superior... jus my take on it.. and it wasnt the fact that they were mad at the negatives being brought up.. but also some had issues with the terminology, the writing, and the facts the writer used as well as the fact she didnt help anyone out not giving people alternatives....

thats jus my .02 i didnt even read the article cuz i dont get mothering... and im not about to debate soy vs non soy to anyone....

[layla]

Yeah, me again. And AGAIN I'll say too much of any one thing probably isn't great for you. AGAIN, some people should avoid soy. AND, feeding a newborn nothing but soy (which is often a high allergen among other things) is probably not a good idea. But soy is NOT some great evil for most people. People get sick and die all the time from peanuts, shellfish, apples for goodness sake. Does that mean eveyone should forego them? No. Any blanket statement from any one person makes me nervous. No one thing is all bad or all good (okay, so maybe Big Macs fall into the "all bad" category! ) Anyhoo, if soy bothers you, don't eat it, if it doesn't, eat it. Everyone should have a varied diet with lots of colors in it. BTW, I am a vegetarian, an holistic nutritionist and have had four vegetarian (one vegan) pregnancy. Over and out...

[ericaz]

To get a few things straight -

Sally Fallon/WAPF does not advocate a zero soy diet for every person. Certain people have an easier time with soy than others. What everyone should avoid (if they're trying to eat a nutritious diet) is any soy that is heavily processed, which happens to be a lot of what's available commercially. Naturally fermented soy can be enjoyed by many people when used sparingly. As a condiment.

The article in Mothering specifically mentions that the problem with the way our society has glorified soy is that it's too much. Soy has traditionally been used as a condiment only, not as a meal replacement. That's where the trouble lies - with highly processed, meal recplacing, definitely GMO (unless certified organic) soy.

Anyhoo, if soy bothers you, don't eat it, if it doesn't, eat it.

I don't know how a holistic nutritionist can make that statement, Layla. As someone who has also studied holistic nutrition I have a hard time chalking up a healthy diet to "if it bothers you don't eat it." Most people I have consulted have no idea that their health woes are a result of improper food choices. Not all people have food allergies that pose a threat of death - many have delayed reactions that can be anything from headaches to dry, flaky skin.
And soy is on the little list that every qualified nutritionist will tell a sensitive person to be on the look at for when it comes to potentially allergenic foods.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by ericaz

Mark Messina, John Robbins and Brian Strom, all advocates of eating lots of soy .

This information is false. I do not know about the other 2 individuals mentioned here, but John Robbins does not advocate "eating lots of soy." In fact, some quotes from a recent lengthy response that he wrote to Ms. Fallon & Ms. Enig's anti-soy articles include:

"There are legitimate questions about certain soyfoods, and much we have yet to learn. Becoming soy-a-holics and automatically downing anything made from soybeans is not the road to health, but neither is shunning and stigmatizing soyfoods."

"It's true that soybeans contain substances that in excess can be harmful. But to imply, as some do, that as a result eating soyfoods poses a risk to human health is taking things much further than the evidence warrants. There would be dangers in eating a diet based entirely on soybeans. But, then, the same could be said for broccoli or any other healthy food. This is one of the reasons why varied diets are so important. Diversity protects. For most people under most circumstances, soy products are a healthful addition to a balanced diet that includes plenty of vegetables, whole grains, seeds, nuts, fruits, and other legumes. For most people, substituting soyfoods for some of the animal foods they now eat is one of the healthiest dietary changes they could make.

What, then, would be a healthy relationship to soy in the diet? Are some forms of soy healthier than others? In my view, the best way to take advantage of soy's health benefits is to follow the example of the traditional Asian diets and stick with whole foods. As a population, these are cultures that, when they have eaten their traditional diets, have tended to be healthier and live longer than Americans."

The entire article can be found at:

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm