The "Soy" article in this issue's 'Mothering' - Page 4

[MamaAllNatural]

I didn't read all the other posts but I just wanted to comment that I'm glad Mothering came out with this article. My midwife told me about the estrogen in soy when I was pregnant with #2. I have issues with too much estrogen and I get horrible morning sickness. I cut out the soy and the morning sickness improved. I also get some other weird pregnancy issues caused by too much estrogen and even with my last pregnancy I would notice that even if I ate soy one day, my symptoms would worsen (the next day I'd notice). I do think with all the soy cheese, soy milk, soy yogurt, veggie dogs, nuggets, burgers and plain and baked tofu, etc. it can really add up in your system and become too much. I do eat it occasionally now that I'm not pregnant. It's really a shame that such a good source of protein (and many other things) has such a downside, but I guess it's like with everything else - moderation is the key.

[Tracy]

my own issues around soy came up about a year ago when my husband and I started to notice ds smelled after eating tofu dogs. my husband said it was BO..it came out of his pores, shower, bathe and it would still be there.
My friend who runs her husbands chiro business had given me a heads up about soy years ago and the estrogen factor etc. I started noticing thyroid problems with girlfriends of mine who consumed a lot of soy and tofu..and well...it just all added up for me... no more soy. Very, very little tofu.

I can't say what people should do or not do, but for me I had an vibe it wasn't a good fit for us.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by vegiemom

Also, could the article not have been about Beef or fish or someother protein source that is involved in "the great american cover up" in regards to the harmful way it may be produced. The way it's over eaten or the amount of environmental "bad" it has in it? I think it surely could have been.

Plenty of articles and books have been written dedicated to how evil conventional meat is for both the environment and for human health, and there are loads of veg*n people and organizations who will talk your ear off about this subject. Soy is like the sacred cow. Anyone who says anything bad about it is bound to cause controversy. I applaud Mothering for publishing something controversial.

An example is that the article stated that vitamin D is added to soy milk so that it is "equal to dairy milk". PHOOEY- who doesn't know that Vit. D is ALSO ADDED to cow milk---- so if it wasn't ADDED to cows milk, cows milk would not be so "fab" either!?!?

Vitamin D is added to pasteurized milk, as it is heat-sensitive and destroyed by pasteurization. It is naturally present in raw milk, and in higher amounts if the animal is eating its natural diet (grass, not grain). People started having problems after pasteurization became common (rickets) so they started adding synthetic Vitamin D back into the milk.

Originally Posted by captain optimism

If Asians (all Asians?) on average are eating a much greater amount of soy than people in the US (on average) and there aren't higher rates of supposedly soy-related illnesses in Asia, then the argument that soy causes those illnesses is seriously compromised.

Asians would be eating traditional and fermented forms of soy, like tempeh, miso, and unfermented forms like soymilk and tofu in moderation, not as the basis of their diet. I am guessing that problems are arising because of modern soyfoods like chik'n nuggets, boca burgers, etc, and because they are eaten so often.

[EBM]

Why are some prompted by the Mothering article to turn this into a debate of meat/dairy vs soy?

It is unlikely that the article was an attack on vegetarians or vegans. Why not do your own personal research and base your arguments for/against soy on the scientific data? If your research leads you to conclude that soy is harmful, look for an alternative for your diet. If it is not harmful, eat to your hearts content.

This really is not an issue of meat eaters diet vs vegan/vegetarians diet. Sheeesh.

[layla]

HEY EBM... well said!

[elainie]

Why not read Kaayla's entire book? It is availabe on PDF version
www.wholesoystory.com

I applaud her for writing this book, I think soy is way overconsumed and can lead to problems. I ate a vegan macrobiotic diet for many years ( no soymilk only tamari, miso, tempeh once a week and tofu once per week) and ended up with hypothyroid.


In Asia soy is also consumed along with a diet that contains plentiful minerals, fish etc. to counteract the harmful effects of the phytates, etc..

They certainly don't dine on tofu pups, chug soymilk all day , start the day with soy yogurt and end it with soy ice cream.

America really has no history of healthful eating in any way and people tend to swap their old foods with health food store versions of the same foods
(breakfast cereal with soymilk, soy balony , tofu cheesecake, hot dogs etc..) in hopes of better health and less environmental impact though
replacing these foods with ersatz versions can't be any healthier or better
for the environment since they require machinery, packaging etc..

If it can't be made in my kitchen I'm very likely to skip it.

Edited to add> I did make my own miso, tempeh, tofu and natto right in my own kitchen years ago.

[EBM]

I'm curious...

Why is the concept of soy being "potentially" harmful soooooo difficult to swallow?

[layla]

For me, it's not so difficult to swallow, what is difficult is for one person (or group or whatever) to say that any one thing is so terrible and no one should eat it. Anything that is overconsumed is probably not going to be great for you, weather it's because there's something that could potentially be harmful or because it's taking the place of other foods to add to a balanced diet. So my kids (okay, okay, me too!) want a tofu pup once in a while or I love soymilk in my coffee or even soy yogurt sometimes, so what? Yes, some soy is better than other soy, raw zuccini is better than fried zuccini broiled chicken is better than fried chicken. If we eat lots of veggies (not the fried ones!), whole grains, nut butters (raw, unsalted), fresh fruit (not apple pie with a lard crust!) and soy doesn't disagree with us, then here Little Johnny, enjoy your tofu pup! A varied diet that doesn't depend on any one thing is the key. And again, soy doesn't contain estrogen, but a compound that mimics it. How many hormones are in a Big Mac? A vanilla shake? There are no miracle foods, no one food that will give you eternal good health nor kill you if you eat it all in moderation and eat lots of different kinds of really good foods.

[elainie]

I think it's perhaps because it's so easy for people to walk into a store and buy packaged soy cheese, soy milk, soy everything .Soy has also been touted as a somewhat miracle health food.

Real foods take time to prepare and don't have a shelf life.

Edited to add: the people behind the soy controversy are not into Big Macs or any fast/packaged food.They see soy as an ultra processed food (not talking about the traditonally processed soy consumed by Asians in smaller amounts, natto, miso, tamari etc..)

[layla]

I agree, and let me tell you, as much as I like to make homemade everything for my family, when I'm tired, I like nothing better than to pop an Amy's frozen soy cheese pizza in the oven! Hey, none of us are perfect!

[mamaofthree]

You know why at first I was so upset was because it seems like once something is "good for you" all of a sudden it isn't. Does that make since. When I was growing up MILK was the thing to drink. "Finish your milk" I am sure most of us heard that. There is the GOT MILK? ads and the three a day adds for dairy blaa blaa (I am not saying that this is all a milk conspiracy) but just as milk from cows was suppose to be great for you they find that it really isn't that great for all people. Anyway where am I going with this??? Oh yeah... I think I said this before it is like once it is found out to be good then it gets over done. PLUS soy as I understand it is pretty cheap so they stick it in EVERYTHING. I am sure it can easily be way overdone, I mean not just in meat/dairy subs but also cookies, ceral bars, Luna bars, everything has soy in it.
This whole debate and article actually opened my eyes more to my diet. I maybe a veggie but I am a way overprocessed veggie. I eat just as crappy as before I went veggie, just no meat. Pretty lame. When I talked to my dh about it he agreed. So we went to the library and got some whole foods cook books. And I suddenly realized there is alot my family is missing. I mean for us grains are rice. There is so much more out there when you take out all the processed foods that you (or I) depend on. PLUS I will actually get the joy of teaching my kids to cook and bake. Which we don't do.
Yes we will still eat soy, because for us I think limiting it is best, BUT we will be adding a bigger verity to our plates, because of this article.

And maybe that is another problem I am having with the article. No real ideas on what to do when you begin to cut out the soy. I mean I know we can look stuff up, and that isn't a real big deal, but to write something so scary sounding and then NOT give advice seems wrong. I mean that is a totally, IMO, mainstream mag thing to do. You read something in newsweek telling you how bad something is, it scares the crap out of you, but gives no advice on what else to do. I always enjoyed MOthering because usually it gives advice on what to do "besides". I was disappointed.

H

[katoomgirl]

Footnote Link

At the end of the footnote, there's a link to the endnotes at Mothering Magazine's website. A link that doesn't work. I'm sure they'll fix it eventually.
I tried this link without the . at th end and it worked.

Wife to Jeff, Mother to Vianne

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Soy is not, and never has been, a food that is good for the immune system

Anyone who says otherwise, hasn't done any reading on the subject.

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/home.htm

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by EBM

Why are some prompted by the Mothering article to turn this into a debate of meat/dairy vs soy?

I admit that when I read anti-soy articles, it does often strike me as anti vegetarian. This is likely b/c those who are so opposed to soy are usually tied to the dairy or meat industry or are promoting a diet heavy on animal protein. Although I do not know the background of this specific author, her arguements sound a lot like the arguements that I hear from those suspect sources.

As far as basing things on scientific research, a number of the posters here have said something like 'my personal experience is: I was vegetarian, ate soy, and got sick or I smelled bad when I ate soy, therefore it makes sense that soy is in fact bad for you.' That is about as unscientific as it gets. I have been vegan for 15+yrs., I eat soy & have zero thyroid problems. I am fairly thin & quite healthy. That doesn't prove anything about soy being the miracle food, just like someone saying that her friend who eats soy developed hypothyroidism means nothing. It is not a double blind study, nor even a study at all.

[EBM]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

As far as basing things on scientific research, a number of the posters here have said something like 'my personal experience is: I was vegetarian, ate soy, and got sick or I smelled bad when I ate soy, therefore it makes sense that soy is in fact bad for you.' That is about as unscientific as it gets. I have been vegan for 15+yrs., I eat soy & have zero thyroid problems. I am fairly thin & quite healthy. That doesn't prove anything about soy being the miracle food, just like someone saying that her friend who eats soy developed hypothyroidism means nothing. It is not a double blind study, nor even a study at all.

if you review my post, you will see that i suggested that the individual should seek out scientific data and make a decision based on that. I was not implying the personal experiences mentioned on this thread are the equivalent of scientific studies. And just as these experiences are not double blind studies or studies at all--neither is your personal experience with soy.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by EBM

And just as these experiences are not double blind studies or studies at all--neither is your personal experience with soy.

I know - I said so in my post - "That [my personal experience] doesn't prove anything about soy being the miracle food, just like someone saying that her friend who eats soy developed hypothyroidism means nothing."

[layla]

MamaofThree, if you want a couple of fairly easy, non-soy, high protein, yummy recipes, pm me and I'll send you a couple. We eat soy and so far so good, so we'll keep eating it, but eat lots of other great stuff too!

[MamaMonica]

I don't think anti-soy is anti--vegetarian because you don't need soy to be a vegetarian. In our modern society, many vegetarians eat a lot of it, however.

[Greenkate]

Does anyone know more about the correlation between soy consumption and dementia? I know there was a heart study done a few years back that ended up linking the two. BTW, we've been vegetarians for many years, and have eaten our weight in soy. I'm really nervous now, and trying to find a balanced solution. I think the difference in Asian consumption and American, to segue, is that we Americans take something fairly healthy ~the soybean~ and find a way to supersize, deep-fry, mutate, puree, squash and squeeze all of the benefits of it, then eat it like there's no tomorrow. Compare our consumption of anything with any other culture, and maybe you'll find the key to the problem. :

[Meiri]

posted by Tricia80:
I have seen it alot if not all foods that have soy.. have the label "may contain soy/soy products" or "processed at a facility that processes soy products"....

I'm glad some manufacturers are doing this, but most are not. I recently told off Flatout Breads for the hidden soy in their 'wonderful natural product'. I don't expect to find soy in Bread, unless it's trying to cater to the low carb fad, in which case they brag about it on the Front of the label.

ftcmj, Thanks for the links. I've bookmarked and will be reading. Wheat is not a problem for me at all, and I apparently am not allergic to soy oil. Given that I've survived the Easter chocolate glut, soy lecithin is not an issue either as I didn't notice any particular symptoms. Whole soy, soy flour, soy proteins however! I avoid like the plague.