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Another Flu Shot Headed our Way-Oh Joy!! - Page 2

post #21 of 61
That's not critical of vaccination. It makes a fair point about the prices of vaccines being used in developing countries being to high. I have no interest in defending profiteering by pharmaceutical companies.
post #22 of 61
You could argue that vaccines cost less than supportive care, but not in the long run. And certainly not in developing countries, where what they need is NOT vaccines, but clean water, better infrastructure, and the ability to use and profit from their own resources.

As for this country, vaccines might seem cheaper now, but I will tell you that incurable autoimmune diseases (a real epidemic) are VERY expensive and use up A LOT of resources. Vaccines are cheaper but who will pay for their damage? Are we to ask our future generations to foot the bill, or change the focus to something more sustainable now before it's too late? We've got lots of vaccines and we are sicker than we've ever been. Something is not working.

I'm not worried, though. Because it WILL change. It's already changing right now.
post #23 of 61
Uh, yes. In the long run. And yes in developing countries. Countries that can't afford vaccines can afford supportive care even less. But yes, clean water and sanitation is also very important.
post #24 of 61

Derailed significantly already, but apologies anyway.

 

I live in a country in the tropics that has excellent universal healthcare (the money for the military they no longer have goes to pay this as well as free education).  It is a poor country, but the standard of living is high.  It is considered a "developing nation" and some people do indeed live in shipping containers from the ports, but there is clean water, fresh food (monsanto was kicked out many years ago) and we have dengue.  Specifically here, *I* had dengue in december.  It is unbelievably painful.  I have many residual symptoms, particularly when I get a fever.  Since I had it, a vaccine has apparently been released.  There are 2 types here (of the 4 that exist), although a third type that was never in Brazil before just showed up.  I am only immune to the one strain I got.

 

I have a feeling the whole world will be told that dengue is now a threat, miserably bleak statistics will be thrown around and people in ridiculously cold places will somehow come to believe that they are in danger and need this shot.

 

I am torn because I have been permanently injured by this disease.  I hope that my family doesn't get it.  Many of my friends have.  I suppose it's way too early for me to give any consideration whatsoever as to whether or not to give it to my children who have never had a single vaccine.  We've had rubella and chicken pox, which were a walk in the park, practically. 

 

Anyway, my point is, that's a tropical disease they developed a vaccine for.  A vaccine "for poor people".  I'm not poor by any stretch of the imagination- I happen to live in an endemic zone.

 

It would be great if people had the option to get a vaccine for malaria and chagas, if they worked and if they wanted them.  It's a slippery slope, I guess- on the one hand I am glad they aren't available because I might be tempted to vaccinate my children and myself.  I am not convinced vaccines work or don't work.  I think some do, some don't and some are ridiculous.  I think my children are healthy enough to fight it off better than me (encephalitis + brain tumor ≠ good combo, though the tumor is congenital and I don't know if they have it).  Sorry to ramble- it was just to point out that there is a vaccine for a tropical disease that kills and to point out that it will most likely be exploited and marketed to the wrong people.  Not that I want it marketed to me either, per se.  I would be very surprised if there wasn't a malaria vaccine in development... but there are pills for it (for short-term use only - tourists, mostly).

 

Apologies again.  Currently have a fever and can't remember what I was getting at, but I hope it's in here somewhere.  dizzy.gif

 

oh yeah, I also have fibromyalgia, so autoimmune disease is a very real threat to my kids as well.  I realise this is very specific to me and my family: would I want them to get the vaccine or not considering I have been hurt by the disease but have autoimmunty issues. 

post #25 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Uh, yes. In the long run. And yes in developing countries. Countries that can't afford vaccines can afford supportive care even less. But yes, clean water and sanitation is also very important.

Uh, no. As someone whose family is actually from a developing country I can tell you that the vaccination programs are like throwing a starving dog a rubber bone. It "looks" like we are "saving" them. But all we are doing is putting a bandaid on a huge problem that we originally helped to create. But it makes us feel all charitable and warm and fuzzy inside. And in the meantime children are dying, and most not from supposed vaccine preventable diseases, but from diarrhea caused by poor sanitation. I wish to god we would stop focusing on vaccines and give people what they really need.

Anyway this is getting OT. The point is there are so many ways we can insure our health than spending time, money, and resources on something that isn't even real in the present moment and probably won't be that big of a deal if it does happen. Wanna know what a big deal is? Dysentery. Want one that's more first world? How about autoimmune disorders. Let's work on those and some other stuff first.
post #26 of 61
Aggie pop, you make some excellent points. Definitely something to think about.
post #27 of 61
You are aware that there are many many people researching various health issues and they can actually research more than one at a time?
post #28 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

You are aware that there are many many people researching various health issues and they can actually research more than one at a time?

Wait a minute, what? I had no idea. Thank you so much for letting me know!!!

It's obvious where the research is going. I may be just a mom, but I'm no fool.
post #29 of 61

Edit: never mind smile.gif


Edited by hushpuppy - 6/1/13 at 8:24pm
post #30 of 61

Is this for the Bird Flu they have purposely mutated to spread from Human to Human and have just decided to continue research on? All funded by the US? I see that it is not. If they develop a Vax for that, well, H5N1 has a 60% mortality so . . . The whole proposition would be terrifying.


Edited by dinahx - 4/14/13 at 10:40am
post #31 of 61
So you're saying the us has intentionally modified the bird flu so that it spreads between humans?
post #32 of 61
Yes. They have. There is international debate on the topic. I will link you. The US didn't do it tho, US funded researchers did.
post #33 of 61
Yes. They have. There is international debate on the topic. I will link you. The US didn't do it tho, US funded researchers did.
post #34 of 61
This is one of the most pressing issues in Infectious Disease Research right now & if bio containment fails, we are all screwed. Diptheria's mortality is 20% (appx) & that is the scariest disease we vac for right now. We simply have no reference point for 60% mortality, even the disease in Contagion wasn't 60% . . .

This is just one article, there are legions more . . . http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/leading-scientists-condemn-decision-to-continue-controversial-research-into-deadly-h5n1-birdflu-virus-8463863.html
post #35 of 61
If its such a pressing issue why is researching the vaccine not a good thing?
post #36 of 61

Avian flu in its natural form does not transmit easily from human to human  (as such, it may not currently be vaccine worthy); they have created in laboratories a mutant form that does.  

post #37 of 61
Yes Kathy. I followed that.
post #38 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

If its such a pressing issue why is researching the vaccine not a good thing?


Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take steps to stop people from purposefully making the virus more dangerous?  Sure, having a vaccine just in case might be useful to a limited degree, but it's a bit of a bandaid solution if the modified virus gets loose in the population. 

post #39 of 61

Those in favor:

"They said that the benefits of the research in preventing and dealing with a future flu pandemic outweigh the risks of an accidental leak of the mutant virus from a laboratory or the deliberate attempt to create deadly strains of flu by terrorists or rogue governments." (I have my own opinion of who these "terrorists" and "rogue" governments are.)

 

Those opposed:

"Professor Lord May, a former government chief scientist and past president of the Royal Society, said the moratorium should be continued because there are two possible downsides to research that deliberately aims at making the H5N1 bird-flu virus more infectious to humans.

As this research becomes more widely known and disseminated, there is the opportunity for evil people to pervert it. [like terrorists and "rogue" gov'ts] My other concern is the statistics of containment are not what they ought to be,” Lord May told The Independent"

 

Whom are we to trust? Like everything else, it's all a matter of opinion. I agree with Lord May!

post #40 of 61

Conspiracy theory alert (or shall I say, Free, Independent-Thinker alert lol)......does this make you wonder if there are any other viruses that accidentally (or purposely) escaped?  Would we ever know the truth if it did happen? The possibility is there you know.

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