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MDC promoting vaccishield? - Page 2

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 They just might feel that for that particular vaccine, the harm that may come from NOT giving it would be more. So for that person, I can see why a product like this is appealing. They want the benefit from the vaccine, but they want to minimize the potential negative effects from it as well.

what is to say this product does this (other than the claims by the company)? and I can find no evidence that it minimized effects either (again other than the company line)- who's to know whatif any harm it causes?

 

sounds just great, that is my whole issue,too great..... if it was such a super product why isn't a big company pushing it? - it just freaks of "oil"!! 

post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

what is to say this product does this (other than the claims by the company)? and I can find no evidence that it minimized effects either (again other than the company line)- who's to know whatif any harm it causes?

 

sounds just great, that is my whole issue,too great..... if it was such a super product why isn't a big company pushing it? - it just freaks of "oil"!! 

I haven't even looked at the product or the ingredients. I was merely responding to the notion that a product such as this (detoxing from vaccines is not a new concept and in fact a qualified homeopath can address this as well - there are plenty of people who think homeopathy is nonsense too) might be appealing to a subset of people. MDC has lots of advertisements on it's pages that do not have "proof" of efficacy. I personally don't have a problem with it. I don't interpret its presence here to mean they are supporting vaccination. 

 

ETA ok I just went and looked at this product and it's page closely. First of all, if you look at each individual ingredient, and the research that is provided supporting the claims about each ingredient, it seems legit to me. In fact I have spent quite a bit of time researching various vitamins/minerals etc and how they work in the body and there are no mystery ingredients here.  Its pretty straight forward. As for the claims of this product - all it says is that it is a nutritional supplement to support the body during vaccination which I think is a superb idea since vaccines tax the immune system. It is not claiming to act as a "detox" from vaccines. 

post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I haven't even looked at the product or the ingredients. I was merely responding to the notion that a product such as this (detoxing from vaccines is not a new concept and in fact a qualified homeopath can address this as well - there are plenty of people who think homeopathy is nonsense too) might be appealing to a subset of people. MDC has lots of advertisements on it's pages that do not have "proof" of efficacy. I personally don't have a problem with it. I don't interpret its presence here to mean they are supporting vaccination. 

 

ETA ok I just went and looked at this product and it's page closely. First of all, if you look at each individual ingredient, and the research that is provided supporting the claims about each ingredient, it seems legit to me. In fact I have spent quite a bit of time researching various vitamins/minerals etc and how they work in the body and there are no mystery ingredients here.  Its pretty straight forward. As for the claims of this product - all it says is that it is a nutritional supplement to support the body during vaccination which I think is a superb idea since vaccines tax the immune system. It is not claiming to act as a "detox" from vaccines. 

 

Marnica, I've been over the page, and clicked the links to the research.  The ad page for VacciShield uses the words "detoxification" or "detox" seven times.  Detoxification is mentioned in the function of 6 out of 9 ingredients.  The claim to detox the body after vaccines may not be front and center, but it's certainly out there.

 

Their links to studies are kind of a classic bibliography salad.  Every article mentioned does indeed reference the ingredient it's closest to on the page.  While all of the articles are labeled as "studies" on the ingredients page, they are not, in fact, all studies.   Because the full journal articles are paywalled, you're looking at the abstracts, not the data, and missing any flaws in methodology or interpretation.  Many of the articles linked strike me as having limited applicability to children of parents who might buy this product.  The first link under L-Glutamine, for example:  2005 Journal of Pediatric Gastrointestinal Nutrition study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625423.

 

The article here is entitled "Intestinal barrier function and weight gain in malnourished children taking glutamine supplemented enteral formula."

 

Is your kid malnourished?  Might intestinal barrier function work differently in malnourished kids (whose guts are probably working overtime to get every last nutrient) then it does in the average healthy child?  Is there anything about the data which suggests that the results may not be applicable in all situations, or might not have been the results of the formula the researchers were trying to study? 

 

Further on down, one of the studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578195) comes up with the suggestion that you eating yogurt with live bacterial cultures may improve immune response to polio shots.  This is obscured in the article, which describes the stuff as "chemically acidified clotted milk."  And here is the fundamental crux of my issue with VacciShield:  IF indeed these ingredients do what it is claimed that they do (and it is not clear to me that this is so), why would I pay $26.99 plus shipping for a two-week supply of a product that I could perfectly well replace with children's multivitamins and yogurt?

post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

 

Marnica, I've been over the page, and clicked the links to the research.  The ad page for VacciShield uses the words "detoxification" or "detox" seven times.  Detoxification is mentioned in the function of 6 out of 9 ingredients.  The claim to detox the body after vaccines may not be front and center, but it's certainly out there.

 

Their links to studies are kind of a classic bibliography salad.  Every article mentioned does indeed reference the ingredient it's closest to on the page.  While all of the articles are labeled as "studies" on the ingredients page, they are not, in fact, all studies.   Because the full journal articles are paywalled, you're looking at the abstracts, not the data, and missing any flaws in methodology or interpretation.  Many of the articles linked strike me as having limited applicability to children of parents who might buy this product.  The first link under L-Glutamine, for example:  2005 Journal of Pediatric Gastrointestinal Nutrition study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625423.

 

The article here is entitled "Intestinal barrier function and weight gain in malnourished children taking glutamine supplemented enteral formula."

 

Is your kid malnourished?  Might intestinal barrier function work differently in malnourished kids (whose guts are probably working overtime to get every last nutrient) then it does in the average healthy child?  Is there anything about the data which suggests that the results may not be applicable in all situations, or might not have been the results of the formula the researchers were trying to study? 

 

Further on down, one of the studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578195) comes up with the suggestion that you eating yogurt with live bacterial cultures may improve immune response to polio shots.  This is obscured in the article, which describes the stuff as "chemically acidified clotted milk."  And here is the fundamental crux of my issue with VacciShield:  IF indeed these ingredients do what it is claimed that they do (and it is not clear to me that this is so), why would I pay $26.99 plus shipping for a two-week supply of a product that I could perfectly well replace with children's multivitamins and yogurt?

As it should be since many of the ingredients are important precursors to glutathione production, which is essential to the detox pathways in the body. 

 

I personally would not spend money on this product (if I vaccinated) because my children get these nutrients already elsewhere. Many of them I give separately to my children already. However many parents don't give supplements so something like this may be appropriate/appealing. I'm not even going to get into the ingredients and if they do what they are claiming they do. That is beyond the scope of this thread and totally off topic. The OP was about whether or not MDC was promoting vaccination by having this product on their site. I don't think it means they are promoting vaccinating - JMHO

post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
 I don't think it means they are promoting vaccinating - JMHO

 

I know you keep saying this is not promoting (and you can feel that way) but it is not like they are giving away a random nutritional product for "general" over all children's health, this products is marketed for the use with vaccines, not as a mere supplement. The company is marketing it to the vaccinating parent,  it's quite clear who the company wants as a customer. I fail to understand how you don't see the connection.

post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

I know you keep saying this is not promoting (and you can feel that way) but it is not like they are giving away a random nutritional product for "general" over all children's health, this products is marketed for the use with vaccines, not as a mere supplement. The company is marketing it to the vaccinating parent,  it's quite clear who the company wants as a customer. I fail to understand how you don't see the connection.

I can see the connection. I just don't agree that it means they are promoting vaccination. MDC has plenty of members who vaccinate according to schedule or are selective/delayed that may (or may not) be interested in getting a free product like this. Why should those people not benefit from a free giveaway? MDC's position on vaccination has always been pretty clear. Asides from not allowing discussions promoting compulsory vaccination, they are not for or against it. If you and others choose to interpret the presence of a product like this to mean that MDC favors and promotes vaccines (ie is telling members they SHOULD vaccinate)  so be it I guess - I just don't agree. 

post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I can see the connection. I just don't agree that it means they are promoting vaccination. MDC has plenty of members who vaccinate according to schedule or are selective/delayed that may (or may not) be interested in getting a free product like this. Why should those people not benefit from a free giveaway? MDC's position on vaccination has always been pretty clear. Asides from not allowing discussions promoting compulsory vaccination, they are not for or against it. If you and others choose to interpret the presence of a product like this to mean that MDC favors and promotes vaccines (ie is telling members they SHOULD vaccinate)  so be it I guess - I just don't agree. 

 

well by the definition of promoting certainly fits!  if mothering was not they won't have given it away 

 

the adverting on here (as far as I know) reflects what products they (mothering) agrees with - you don't see certain items promoted here for a reason

post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

well by the definition of promoting certainly fits!  if mothering was not they won't have given it away 

 

the adverting on here (as far as I know) reflects what products they (mothering) agrees with - you don't see certain items promoted here for a reason

I still don't see it. Lets assume that I agree that by even hosting a give away like this, MDC is actively promoting a product. I still would not make the leap to interpret that to mean they are promoting the practice of vaccination (again giving the message that parents SHOULD do it). I think they are merely recognizing their audience/membership which reflects the fact that there are loads of parents that vaccinate here. In fact I'd be willing to guess that 100% non-vaxers are the minority on MDC. I think we just need to agree to disagree namaste.gif

post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I still don't see it. Lets assume that I agree that by even hosting a give away like this, MDC is actively promoting a product. I still would not make the leap to interpret that to mean they are promoting the practice of vaccination (again giving the message that parents SHOULD do it). I think they are merely recognizing their audience/membership which reflects the fact that there are loads of parents that vaccinate here. In fact I'd be willing to guess that 100% non-vaxers are the minority on MDC. I think we just need to agree to disagree namaste.gif

 

why not just give away pampers or formula? there are those who can't use cloth or can't BF - why exclude them?

 

 

 

promoting means to attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity - seems to fit, again, if you don't support the product, you would not give it way or have it advertised here

post #30 of 31

Vaccishield is a promotional giveaway/advertisement that MDC is sponsoring/advertising/supporting for a product that is intended to be used in conjunction with vaccines and the product even has the vaccine word in it, so yes this means that MDC is supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines. That is really disgusting to be supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines which cause harm and death to children and babies who had no choice in the matter.

post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLilPwny View Post

Vaccishield is a promotional giveaway/advertisement that MDC is sponsoring/advertising/supporting for a product that is intended to be used in conjunction with vaccines and the product even has the vaccine word in it, so yes this means that MDC is supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines. That is really disgusting to be supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines which cause harm and death to children and babies who had no choice in the matter.

 

yeahthat.gif 

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