A "What if" Scenario
If no one had vaccine reactions (i.e vaccines were 100% safe) I would selectively vaccinate.
There are still vaccines I would not give, as I think the use of vaccines have changed the disease in not-so-great ways (and I do not wish to be a part of it) or because I think it might benefit my child to get the disease.
I am fairly convinced that the car ride to the doctors office and sitting in the doctors office (all those sick people!) is a riskier behaviour than forgoing certain vaccines. Tetanus comes to mind. The chances of getting tetnus are so very low (1/ 12 millionish - a little higher for the unvaxxed, but still). I could see me vaccinating if I was at the doctors anyways, but not making a special trip for it.
If I were to quantify it, I would say concern around vaccine reactions are about 75% of the reason I do not vax.
Edited by kathymuggle - 5/7/13 at 5:25am
We are selective/delayed. If there were no reactions, terrible side-effects, I would still be selective/delayed, and I still would not give my kids all that is out there. However, maybe I would not delay for as long as I have. My kids are 5 and 3 and can be considered really far behind, especially DS.
Good question. If one could guarantee that there would be no adverse long-term consequences, I would vaccinate for pertussis, Hep B, chickenpox when they hit 16/17 and Hep A for traveling (I just got a Hep A shot myself).
So yes, I would be selectively vaccinating, but a little more than I do now.
(Babylon & Zion are used in the Rastafarian sense here)
I don't believe we could ever divorce them from flaws like profit motive, population rather than individual medicine, adjuvants (see profit motive), research flaws, dogma, etc.
I basically think the Dogma around Vax Science interferes with safety AND efficacy & the Dogma is what we Religiously Exempt from . . .
Edited by dinahx - 5/7/13 at 6:21am
If vaccines were known to be 100% safe, I think the nature of my research might change.
In the real world, issues around vaccine safety have been enough for me to decide not to vaccinate.
I have not really had to (although it is an emerging interest for me wrt vaccines) look at how specific viruses and bacteria contribute to health. I know some of the ways illnesses can contribute to health, but I would explore this issue further. I am aware illness can contribute to, well, further illnesses as well….so it would be a weighing thing.
Edited by kathymuggle - 5/7/13 at 6:21am
The only other space where a product seems to be assigned powers beyond itself & a free pass on adverse events (and is given to healthy people) is contraception (mostly hormonal types but Vasectomy side effects are also downplayed) although not as significantly as vaxes. So I see that as a religious issue also & NFP/FAM & pharmaceutical contraceptive abstinence is also a religious objection issue for many, including myself.
Edited by dinahx - 5/7/13 at 9:03am
If I had a 100% warranty that nothing bad will happen, then yes, I would be less hesitant. I would vaccinate less delayed. But still selectively as some vaccines, even if they didn't cause immediate or chronic issues, do have other unfavorable outcomes. E.g. flu and chickenpox. And then there is the pesky fetal cell cultures which are morally objectionable, especially in the light of "safe" alternatives in Japan.
I would think about selectively vaccinating my children and I if 1)it was 100% proven that we would not contract the disease. 2)if the ingredients were altered to become more naturally safe. 3)if adverse side effects were non existent. And 4) if nothing was changed and there was a real life or death situation then I would vaccinate
pretty much this for me
Well, it sounds to me like you are asking, what would we do if vaccines were as safe as, say, hand-washing.
Which at first glance, sounds like a no-brainer. Of course we wash hands to prevent illness.
But even with hand-washing, it's not as simple as it looks. Look at what's happened with antibiotic soaps and how they have contributed to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. So, rather than "what direct consequences to the human body are we looking at," the fundamental question would be, "what serious health issues might we be creating down the road that are not fully understood today?"
Even if vaccines were discovered to be 100% safe (not sure how they can do this, but anyways…….) I still might not vacinate. I am pretty ticked at pharmaceutical companies over so many things related to vaccines, and don't really want to give them my money. There are organsiations, corporations and products I do not use because I do not choose to give them my money.
There might actually have to be an outbreak of a disease I consider a danger (so an imminent health issue) to give vaccine makers money. I would have to think about it.
am genuinely interested in the responses to this hypothetical scenario in order to understand how much of the decision to not vax or selectively vax for MDC parents is based on the potential for serious adverse reactions or how much of it is based on believing that they dont do what they claim or they dont do it effectively enough to justify giving them to your child.
In some cases, neither! We just recently touched on the issue of vaccines having an *adverse* effect on public health. A fine example is the varicella vaccine, which can lead to increased cases in shingles, (in bystanders, not necessarily the person who had the vaccine) and a later onset of chicken pox. College dorms are seeing outbreaks of the illness in young adults, who are at much greater risk than children for experiencing complications. Outbreaks of this nature were extremely rare back when we *allowed* children to get wild chicken pox. So even if the vaccine were 100% safe, I would feel an obligation to protect my community by declining it for my children. Who knew, right?
For the other vaccines that I decline, I would say that it's mostly the latter. I view vaccines as I view other consumer goods. Namely, I need to see a compelling reason to buy those goods or consent to them as a medical intervention, and they need to do their job well. Pediatricians can tell me scary anecdotes about rotavirus until they're blue on the face, and they still won't frighten and emotionally manipulate me into accepting routine rotavirus vaccination for my healthy, first-world, breastfed, stay-at-home babies.