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18 year old slob - Page 2

post #21 of 47

Linda- I really like your list. I am adapting it for the summer; I teach summer school and my kids are home most days until I get home (around noon). Last summer DH was out of work, so he cleaned, but I told them I am NOT coming home to a trashed house every day. If they want to go hang out with friends or do things, they will have to do some chores first. Thanks so much for posting it!

post #22 of 47
Actually, I think finals during senior year are the least important exams of ones academic life. As far as I recall, anyway!
post #23 of 47
It would really depend on what she has planned. If she's going to college and been accepted, then finals are not as important. If, because of changing homes, she plans to apply for a full time job or college in the summer, then senior finals will be looked at to see if she finishes strong.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

I do not know what to say. I told my son at 16 that the Laundry Fairy has left the building. If he leaves drying pans he used for his breakfast on the counter , I just move them into the sink, untill he runs out of frying pans. It works great.

 

Hmm.  This doesn't work in my home because I need the frying pan. We don't have enough pans to 'run out' of.  We have two pans, one large one small, and it's only considerate that they be clean and put away when I go to start cooking.  Or when anyone else in the home needs to cook, for that matter. 

 

So I keep at it, reminding them each and every time they forget, to clean the pots and pans they use when they cook for themselves (yay for cooking for themselves!).  It's pretty galling when they say, "Sorry, I forgot" because I know full well they haven't forgotten.  But usually they do jump up and get to cleaning. Something about having the good grace to be a bit ashamed, maybe.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

Anyway, if their daily list isn't done when I get home (or at an agreed upon other time), the slacker teen has no TV or internet for the evening (this has only happened once). If the weekly list isn't done by Friday evening, then no going out PLUS no TV or internet until its done.

 

They just do it so they can get on with their lives (or with watching Dr. Who).

 

I really like your list, and we have a similar one.  Perhaps even more so, I appreciate that your kids are motivated by watching Doctor Who.  orngbiggrin.gif

 

This is neither here nor there for the OP, but I particularly fail with follow-through and consequences.  I just don't want to deal with the argument and confrontation, of which 18 y.o. dd has always been particularly talented.  And now I regret it and we're all dealing with the consequences.  I've taken to bribery, $20 a month if they keep to their daily list, without being reminded. This works pretty well for 13 y.o. ds.  Dd might be holding out for more money. Pfh.

 

Anyway, I decided to ignore the "you shouldn't be bribing your kids to do what they're supposed to be doing anyway' philosophy because that isn't working for us.  The $20 IS working, at least for ds, and I really, really want them to learn how to do these things. If the routine is sinking into their heads, something they can follow when they're adults and deciding they want their own clean homes, then I count it as a success.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenemami View Post

Stop giving her money so she can't run off and buy new things once all hers are dirty or if they get lost in the mess. 

 

Hmmm.  This is obvious, typing it out, but it hasn't been obvious to me.  I think next time dd asks me to buy clothes for her I'm going to require her to pick up, sort and take stock of all of her existing clothing. Even if she doesn't find what she needs on her bedroom floor, the clothes will be picked up. 

 

My kids both have too much stuff.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHinJersey View Post

Actually, I think finals during senior year are the least important exams of ones academic life. As far as I recall, anyway!

 

I hear that junior year grades are more important than senior year. I have no idea why.  Don't tell my daughter this.  She's in her senior year and getting the best grades she's ever had.  She's very pleased, and I'm excited for her.

 

OP regarding your dh and you dd's relationship,  I hope he can take a big step back from the dynamic, and shut it down.  And he definitely shouldn't be trying to buy her respect or love or whatever.  One thing that might help is if you refuse to let her link keeping her room neat with her feelings about your divorce and remarriage. Or maybe you are the one linking the two?  Address them separately. She IS capable of taking good care of her stuff. 

 

 

Edited for grammar.


Edited by journeymom - 5/15/13 at 8:26am
post #25 of 47
Usually it is because kids are already accepted to their college of choice by then. I think if that isn't the case then senior year is MOST important, now that I think of it.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

 If it was sophomore or even junior year, I'd be more in agreement. Senior year is different, because those final exam grades will be influencing her college entrance or job future. Why jeopardize her future over laundry. It just doesn't make sense.

 

 

College entrance was settled months ago. If she is going anyplace other than community college, that is already all settled. If it is community college, then her grades don't matter.

 

She doesn't know how to do laundry, much less how to do laundry and study and at same time right now, and therefore she ain't ready for college (even though she is already earning college credits!).  I think a parent should be walking her through how to do her laundry (which she can do while studying).

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHinJersey View Post

Usually it is because kids are already accepted to their college of choice by then. I think if that isn't the case then senior year is MOST important, now that I think of it.

That is the point I was trying to make. Thanks for the assist.
post #28 of 47
I agree with 4evermom. My teenagers are slobs, too, and their rooms are their personal space. I declare a clean up day periodically, and make sure that at least once or twice a month they get things clean and tidy, sheets changed, etc, but otherwise I don't micromanage them. I also don't do their laundry- that's their job. I really believe in letting them have control over their own lives as much as is reasonably possible, and it has been working out very well, for the most part.

Reminds me of what a good friend said years ago when I was telling her my kids' messy rooms were stressing me out. She said, "that's why God made doors." smile.gif

Good luck with your daughter!
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post

I agree with 4evermom. My teenagers are slobs, too, and their rooms are their personal space. I declare a clean up day periodically, and make sure that at least once or twice a month they get things clean and tidy, sheets changed, etc

 

I really don't see how that is any different on a philosophical level than what I do -- you do require your children to clean up their rooms and change sheets. It isn't "their" room to the point that they are allowed to live in filth.

 

The difference between what you and I do is that I'm very clear about my expectations up front, while you decide randomly what is "too messy, " and that I set the bar higher for what is acceptable.   Both of us require our children clean up, and both of us have systems that work well for our own families. thumb.gif

 

I started off feeling that since my kids' rooms were "their rooms" that they could keep them how they wanted, and it just didn't pan out for us. Partly because they are both such slobs if left to themselves, and partly because me randomly stating that things have gone over the top is more difficult for my children than having a list of what they are to do. One of my DDs especially needs things to be cut and dry, and very clearly broken down into steps. Doing what works for your family didn't work for mine. winky.gif  With my system, I don't ever tell my kids their rooms are too messy, or tell them what they have left to do. I'm out of it. They just read through their list.

 

But my kids rooms ARE still their own. One just got new bedroom furniture that she picked out herself, and her room is decorated exactly to her taste and personality. She and I worked together on the types of organization and storage that would really work for her. My other DD and I just started on the same process for her room. (They've gown up a lot since the last time we did this). They both are allowed to hang out in their bedrooms, have snacks or drinks in their bedrooms, etc. They have a lot of privacy and they enjoy their spaces. Being required to hang up their towels doesn't make it any less "their space."

 

One of them tried to convince me that the way she kept her room was a form of self expression, but I don't believe that throwing clothes on the floor and leaving trash laying expresses one's self. You wanna express yourself? Paint. Write. Create something new that never existed.

 

Oddly, the more organized her room is, the more creative she is. Because she can find her art supplies and has space to actually do things!

post #30 of 47
Nope. The difference is that you micromanage, and I don't. wink1.gif

But thanks for the criticism.
post #31 of 47

Hmm.  She described how she has taken herself out of the equation altogether. That seems like the opposite of micromanagement. She's not looking over their shoulders telling them how to pick up their clothes.  She defined what needs to be done and has left it for them to do.

 

On the other hand, Linda, you might have stopped at your first sentence there.  smile.gif

post #32 of 47
I think it *is* micromanaging, since she is deciding that certain areas must be "tidy" in their personal areas. That's micromanaging. Personal areas should have more person control over the appearance. And she has *not* removed herself, since she is checking to see if the work is done. Also, either way there is subjective review. Each person's definition of "tidy" is unique.
post #33 of 47

Okay.  I think the important difference is between our children.  My children are different from your children, who are different from Linda's children.  Linda has explained that one of her children especially benefits from a more explicit, structured plan. Your child is not the same, and you know what you and your child are comfortable with.  Micromanagement is obviously a negative description. 

post #34 of 47
Yeah, I see your point, but it was extremely rude for her to make a statement that targets another's methods as inferior to hers, and by doing that she opened herself up to criticism.

For the record, I don't advocate randomly and arbitrarily springing surprise expectations on unwitting children. I don't dictate to my kids what "tidy" is, I just provide occasional reminders that we need to clean up so that our personal spaces will be pleasant to live in. I respect their ability to set standards for themselves, while realizing that sometimes they do require a little external motivation.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

Hmm.  She described how she has taken herself out of the equation altogether. That seems like the opposite of micromanagement. She's not looking over their shoulders telling them how to pick up their clothes.  She defined what needs to be done and has left it for them to do.

 

 

yeah, that's really it. Since the thread is now a debate about whether or not I micromanage my kiddos, I decided to look it up and see exactly what it means before responding.

 

 

Quote: 
http://www.yourdictionary.com/micromanage

transitive verb micromanaged, micromanaging

 

to manage or control very closely, as by making decisions about even the smallest details, often so as to be regarded as acting inefficiently or counterproductively

 

That's not what I did at all. I made up a list, which was really based on the big problems (some of which are serious because they are compounded by our pets) and I put the list in a place where my kids can always find it. I went through it with them the first couple of days and clarified things, but that was really that. I spot check (stick my head in their doors) some days. But they  run system on their own without much from me at this point. I could fall over dead and they could still do the same things, which to a certain extent, I think they would because now that they live in a tidy space, they've found that they like it.

 

I'm not micromanaging. I taught them how to keep their rooms tidy. I didn't leave it for them to figure out, because we tried that and it didn't work here.

 

 

Quote:

transitive verb taught, teaching

 

  1. to show or help (a person) to learn (how) to do something: to teach a child (how) to swim
  2. to give lessons to (a student, pupil, or class); guide the studies of; instruct
  3. to give lessons in (a subject) to someone; help someone to develop (a skill or trait): teaches French, taught him self-discipline

 

 

I posted the list and explained our system because I thought it would help the OPer. Remember the OPer??  She has pets in her home that are forced to live in their own feces and urine. The situation is totally out of control. While I do understand that other, less specific and formal systems work well for some families, I think that is obviously not the case for the OPer.

 

This was a big issue for us for a while, and we've done some real work on it. What we are doing now works really beautiful for us (partly because it really suits my kids).  I'm not saying it the only way, or the right way, I'm saying for a family who is struggling with this, it's something that is worth trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Each person's definition of "tidy" is unique.

 

I don't think that we define "tidy" differently. I think we all know when a room is tidy and when it isn't. Rather, I think we all have different standards for what is "tidy ENOUGH."  I suspect every parent on this thread has a bottom for how dirty/filthy their kids' rooms can get before something has to happen. That's a different spot for many of us, which is fine. I'm not saying what the line for should for another parent for tidy ENOUGH.  It's up to you. But when you figure out what that line is for, if you and your teen are having a struggle, writing it down in list might help.

post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

I really don't see how that is any different on a philosophical level than what I do -- you do require your children to clean up their rooms and change sheets. It isn't "their" room to the point that they are allowed to live in filth.

The difference between what you and I do is that I'm very clear about my expectations up front, while you decide randomly what is "too messy, " and that I set the bar higher for what is acceptable.  

This was the snarkiness I was responding to. First, it sounds like you think after your post any others were superfluous, and others shouldn't bother adding their thoughts. Then, you directly compared our "philosophies" and found mine inferior. If you don't like the subsequent tone the thread has taken, you shouldn't have been rude in the first place.
post #37 of 47

We had lizards. Their cages did NOT need to be cleaned daily. Weekly sufficed. And ferrets? Stink. No matter how often you clean their home. So maybe OP needs to educate herself what needs to be done, and then educate her daughter. 

 

Did I miss the response to my comment that maybe kiddo is taking after Mom? Since the boyfriend seems to be doing all the housework. 

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

I posted the list and explained our system because I thought it would help the OPer. Remember the OPer??  She has pets in her home that are forced to live in their own feces and urine. The situation is totally out of control. While I do understand that other, less specific and formal systems work well for some families, I think that is obviously not the case for the OPer.

We really don't know that. The OP seems to think that clean clothes that have fallen on the floor need to be rewashed. We have no clue to the extent that she may be exaggerating because she is frustrated. We have no clue if she is a bit OCD and if she sees the tiniest bit of dust and clutter as filth and hoarding. 

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post


This was the snarkiness I was responding to. First, it sounds like you think after your post any others were superfluous, and others shouldn't bother adding their thoughts. Then, you directly compared our "philosophies" and found mine inferior. If you don't like the subsequent tone the thread has taken, you shouldn't have been rude in the first place.

 

I pointed out a flaw in your logic. I didn't attack you or say that your way was inferior. I said:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

Both of us require our children clean up, and both of us have systems that work well for our own families. thumb.gif

 

That's not snarky or rude. You require your children clean their rooms and change the sheets, and you do it in a way that works for your family.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evermom View Post

We really don't know that. The OP seems to think that clean clothes that have fallen on the floor need to be rewashed. We have no clue to the extent that she may be exaggerating because she is frustrated. We have no clue if she is a bit OCD and if she sees the tiniest bit of dust and clutter as filth and hoarding. 

 

Depending on how long its been since the floor was cleaned, how many dirty clothes got mixed in with the clean ones, if some stinky gym shoes were thrown on top, how much trash/dirty dishes/pet hair were in the mix, they may have NEEDED to be washed. When things are really out of control, clothes that haven't been worn can need to be laundered, and things are really out of control in this young woman's room.

 

From the OP:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddoe390 View Post

 

... The loft area was pretty big so she felt the need to pack as many lizards, clothes, shoes and trash that she could into that area of the apartment. ...

We moved into a condo that was alot nicer than the apartment. We made it perfectly clear to her that she was to keep her room clean and trash off of the floor and no dirty dishes lying around. ...She does have time to clean her lizard and the ferret cages so they dont stink.   

 

It sounds like a nasty, stinky mess that could easily attract bugs. It's gross. This isn't about OCD or a tiny bit of dust. (Dust was never mentioned).

 

We all may differ on how clean is "clean ENOUGH," but I would be really surprised if any one thinks that trash, dirty dishes and the reek of pet cages that haven't been cleaned is "clean ENOUGH."

post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post



When things are really out of control, clothes that haven't been worn can need to be laundered, and things are really out of control in this young woman's room.

It sounds like a nasty, stinky mess that could easily attract bugs. It's gross. This isn't about OCD or a tiny bit of dust. (Dust was never mentioned)

Still, we don't know that "things are really out of control" unless you've made a personal visit. For all we know OP could be upset about a few tissues on the floor and a few bowls on the dresser.
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