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The loss of affection - Page 3

post #41 of 82
Thread Starter 
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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:20pm
post #42 of 82

I will jump in here too...

 

I have always felt that the loss of intimacy after childbirth and during nursing that I have felt with both my children is natures way of child-spacing. Yes, it's probably hormonal but it seems "by design" to me. 

 

On top of what I suspect is hormonal, there is just that "touched-out" thing that one feels when they've got a kid on them all.day.long. 

 

There is also some possibility of some sort of mild, long-term PPD. I have a friend with this and she describes early parenting as "being pecked to death by the most adorable baby ducklings."  

 

The issue of sleep is also HUGE. It just becomes a basic need that comes to the forefront well above intimacy. 

 

There is also the issue of always focusing on others that can make intimacy a pretty unappealing idea. Like, "I just wiped a zillion butts and you want me to do that...yuck!"

 

And, because I think some of these things are what our members experience, their suggestions to lessen the load are valid. There's the hormonal stuff, that you can't do much about but you can help with feeling touched-out, having personal space, a break from dealing with a child's diapers, and sleep. 

 

I know you say you don't want advice and more want stories...but, as much as stories may well be similar (many of my friends feel the same way I do) you can see from this thread that not all women feel the same way or react the same way.  

 

The other big issue I think many women feel is that there isn't much time or energy dedicated to being emotionally intimate in a casual, carefree way when you have a young child. So those lingering days where you go to the farmer's market, and spontaneously stop for a coffee on the water...and then decide to all nap together, and then decide to get someone to watch the baby so you can go see that band who just came to town...and then bump in to friends and have a great time...

 

To me, talking about intimacy is never the key - blah! A nice day goes a long way for me. As do the things mentioned above. Good luck to you! 

 

Also...

 

An interesting thing for me is that I DO NOT like the "Good Mom" praise. Though I'm generally turned off by praise, the whole good mother thing is especially not something I want from my partner. I can't really put into words why that is but it occurred to me as I was re-reading the thread. I think it's because, for me, the term "good mother" involves a bunch of values that I don't even consider to be "good mothering". To me, a "good mom" is a good enough mom...one who (along with her partner) provide all the basic needs for her kids and then who is a good role model to her children about how to also have fulfilling, joyful life that she shares with her kids, her friends and etc. If my DH used the term, "good mom", I'm afraid that I may interpret that as me being a bit too focused on motherhood. I mean, yes, he and I probably have the same definition of what really makes a "good mom"... I think if he used the phrase to describe me, I would be turned-off. 

 

Now, THAT is probably something pretty unique to me. I'm sure there are other mothers for whom the compliment "Good Mom" is of the highest order. For me, not so much. 

post #43 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmamalizzy View Post

 I need to be reminded why I'm the one that he fell in love with - because I need to be reminded that I'm a person beyond being a mother.  Suggestions...I want my partner to notice the little things I'm good at and compliment them.  I want him to smile at the way I tell a story.  I want him to spontaneously tell me that I'm cute.  I guess I can't explain it very well, but I just really want to see him respond to my not-mommy self. 

Ok, so she said better what I was getting at the end of my post. While I, personally, take this a step further in that I just generally don't want to be evaluated as a mother, I think this is a good way of expressing some of the issues with motherhood, relationships, and intimacy in the early days of motherhood. 

post #44 of 82

Re: "spoiled".  I wonder if that is more of a mindset thing. I think a person who is able to really think of the things they are given may well describe themselves as being "spoiled" when, in fact, they have a good balance in their relationship. of course, balance is subjective, isn't it?  For me, (to phrase it the way requested), the old-fashioned "balance" where the father works and does the yard work, and the mother stays home and does the child-minding and the house work is NOT SEXY. As many others have discussed. 

 

To me, mixing up all the crud that needs to be done in a day is the more interesting way to go. There's a whole book called, "Porn for New Moms" where men are doing household things. I think it's kind of sad that we even still thing that sort of thing is relevant... but it's there for cultural reference for ya. 

 

Forgot one more thing....laughter!  To me, that's the best thing ever - for all things. For my mood - everything. love.gif

post #45 of 82
Quote:
I have a friend with this and she describes early parenting as "being pecked to death by the most adorable baby ducklings."

 

 

This made me smile.  My great-grandmother used to say the same thing. 
 

post #46 of 82

What I can tell you as woman from my personal experience  is that I have zero desire to give someone sex and affections if I feel that the partner

 

a) Is slob who is not taking care of himself on the basic level

 

b) starts smoking or doings other drugs

 

c) gets drunk more thank occasional "I overdid at at a party"

 

d) pays more attention to video games, sports, internet porn to than me. Usually that manifisted in not taking interest in my life and not noticing how I look etc

 

 

e) lies

 

f) is all about "Me poor me"

 

g) refuses to help around the house and kids with various lame excuses . Yes, "I work so hard" falls into it since I work full time too

 

 

h) only wants from sex what I want and no desire to please me

 

 

 

Obvisouly, I try to talk to the partner first, but if nothing changes , I will leave.

 

 

The only thing that can work is open dialogue with a partner and the mutual desire of partners to change things.

post #47 of 82

While the first response seemed mean, I think it was on the money, personally, because that is how I feel. I know it might not be the case in every situation, like yours. If my husband took care of himself, and occasionally took care of the kids, and even me, that would be so amazing, I might actually have enough energy to be affectionate! I might not feel taken advantage of, as I do sometimes.  

post #48 of 82

I have a high high libido, but there were times when it was nothing that my partner did and I just didn't want to do any thing. He works hard, I work hard...We're tired. He spoils me, I spoil him.

An "I love you, goodnight" before we drool on our pillows is all we can muster.

 

This is my personal experience. As long as there is love, the sex/cuddles/kisses eventually happens again.

post #49 of 82
 If you post a problem, you will get advice. Many of us have been there, and would rather skip the personal stories you seek and get right to the advice. Some will use more tact than others, unfortunately.

 

Here's another angle of a problem that can contribute to intimacy issues. I know this from personal experience. Some people have a real problem with communication and immediately feel attacked and threatened when hearing something about themselves that they don't like. When that is the case, that person can be incredibly hard to live with. People looking in from the outside think "wow, they never argue". That's not always a good thing. The other person in the relationship feels as though they are always walking on eggshells, and pretending they are happy so that they don't have to upset the other person...because trying to discuss problems only makes things worse. It is sad that I have to put this disclaimer in, but again...this is just one thing that can contribute to intimacy issues and I am NOT accusing you of anything. I don't know if anyone brought it up yet, so I thought I would. It seems like others have covered "feeling taken advantage of" and "hormonal" stuff pretty well, so I thought I would mix it up. 

 

Just because it isn't the "story" you were looking for, and it was just some advice (which you didn't think fit your situation) didn't mean you had to blow up at her and all the others on this thread. Read your response above...not only did you order her not to post again (even though technically it is not your call to say who can and can't post, and you know that, but you still chose to order her not to speak because you didn't want to hear her), but you made a few accusations as well. Was she really telling you how to live your life? No. Were her responses not of value? No. Should she take her own advice and seek counseling"? Maybe, but why would you throw that back at her? Maybe she had marriage counseling and it worked and that is why she gave you that advice. So you are calling people out for sounding bitter in their posts, and then you turn around and sound bitter in return. I have been there. I get responses that I feel are mean, even though they might just be very truthful and coming from the heart of someone who has had a bad experience. I just don't respond, since there will be many other more respectful responses...or I respond in a very diplomatic way to try to diffuse the situation and make everyone happy, acknowledging their view while still standing my ground. 

 

You said that you don't have to help around the house and you can't remember the last time you changed a diaper and your wife isn't affectionate and you want stories of similar situations. You had to know what you were walking into! You are getting real answers from real wives who have been there...some may be a bit bitter...sorry we have emotions and show them. I guess we aren't supposed to do that, and if we do, we just get ordered to not speak again!


Edited by jmarroq - 6/17/13 at 4:57pm
post #50 of 82

Backing up TracyAmbers UA reminder post..However I'm doing in my style:

Put on your big girl panties when you post. Don't be rude, don't take your lifelong frustrations out on a poster, and don't assume Ronart is like your scumbag ex or whatever.

Treat each other like you want to be treated in the virtual world and every thing will probably stay copacetic.

 

Like Jma said (although cheekily) -OP should have known what he was walking in on posting here...However we needn't all behave like raving madwomen at him either. thumb.gif

 

If you feel the need to be totally rude, or a poster drives you up the wall - we have an ignore feature that works beautifully. Self control required. Sense of humor helps.

post #51 of 82

I find these two comments funny when back to back:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronart View Post

In response to LLQ1011:

 

Thank you for the reply.  Your suggestion is not helpful.  From a simple post with limited information there is no way for you to understand our situation that would allow you to provide such a simple solution.  This is why I asked for people to share their personal experiences, not solve my problems. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronart View Post
Tonight I did some "chores" without prompting and I got some darling eyes looking my way.  

 

The thing is, ronart, that your situation is really quite typical. You guys have been acting out very stereotypical roles and it hasn't been working, yet you are offended when someone tells you what you can do to change the equation.

 

Even when their advice works, you are still offended.

 

Over and over on this thread, you have told posters they aren't saying the right things in *your* thread. That you don't want their advice, they don't understand you, etc. As I read through the thread, I wonder if you have these some communication patterns with your spouse. Because if you do, then you are teaching your wife to not tell you what she thinks and how she feels. It's a lot easier for her to blame hormones than to explain to someone who isn't a good listener than they aren't a good listener.

 


 

The first year after the birth of the first child is very tough for most relationships for a bunch of reasons. Caring for a new baby 24/7 is more work than most of us realize it will be, so our plan for how to divide the work doesn't actually work. One of my friends once commented on her own spouse, "he does what he feels like, and I do all the rest."  You have that attitude, and it is barely dawning on you to do ANYTHING. You still think it is completely reasonable for your wife to work 24/7 while you get to rest when your paying job is over.

 

I believe your marriage will have a strain in it until you figure out that you are just as responsible for everything that happens at home during the hours that you aren't at work as your wife is. If you clean up the dinner dishes, you aren't "helping her out."  You are just acting like an adult. Change some diapers. Fold the laundry and put it away. Tell her to sit down for a few minutes. Ask her when the last time was that she had time to do whatever it is that makes her really happy -- read a book, meet a friend for coffee, etc. Until she has as much leisure time as you do, don't expect her to have as much of an interest is sex as you do. She doesn't have the energy for it.

 

It can be difficult to sort out what is "hormonal",  what is fatigue, what is poor communication, and what is a feeling of a lack of support. They can all look really similar. Right now you are using "hormonal" as an excuse to not bothering putting 100% into the other issues, the ones that you CAN impact.  You need to address the others. What can you do so your wife gets more rest? What can you do to be a better listener (based on your responses on this thread, you need to work on that), what can you do to SHOW your wife support?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronart View Post

I know in time she will feel like herself.  However, if it never does return it is something I will accept.  I love my wife regardless.  She is a wonderful mother, and that is all I really need.  

 

That's not actually true. If you guys don't move past this stage, your marriage will most likely end. I'm in my late 40s, and we've watched nearly all our friends divorce. You will need more than her being a wonderful mother, and frankly, she will too. If all she is a "wonderful mother,"  she will end very unhappy, and worse than your marriage falling apart, she will lose herself.  And that should be more worrisome to you than your marriage failing apart, because you should love her for who she is, not just as the mother of your child.

 

You asked for personal experiences, so here's is mine. One of the best things that ever happened to my marriage is my DH's best friend's wife leaving him for another man, and taking their kids. It was a big wake up call to my DH to not take me for granted. Sadly, it was the day that my DH realized that me being happy and feeling fulfilled was actually really important. I think he should have been able to figure that out on his own, without needing to see how it can all play out. If you really understood that your wife could one day wake up and be sick of waiting on you and being loved as a mother, not as a woman, would you keep doing the exact same things?

post #52 of 82
Thread Starter 

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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:20pm
post #53 of 82
Thread Starter 
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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:20pm
post #54 of 82

I am quoting part of a post below, because I feel poster hit the nail on the head. 

 

"The thing is, ronart, that your situation is really quite typical. You guys have been acting out very stereotypical roles and it hasn't been working, yet you are offended when someone tells you what you can do to change the equation.

 

Even when their advice works, you are still offended. (I think she's talking about how you posted that you got "loving eyes" from your wife after you did a few extra chores).

 

Over and over on this thread, you have told posters they aren't saying the right things in *your* thread. That you don't want their advice, they don't understand you, etc. As I read through the thread, I wonder if you have these some communication patterns with your spouse. Because if you do, then you are teaching your wife to not tell you what she thinks and how she feels. It's a lot easier for her to blame hormones than to explain to someone who isn't a good listener than they aren't a good listener."

 

 

 

 

 

post #55 of 82
Thread Starter 
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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:21pm
post #56 of 82
Thread Starter 
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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:21pm
post #57 of 82
Thread Starter 
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Edited by ronart - 5/27/13 at 12:21pm
post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarroq View Post

I am quoting part of a post below, because I feel poster hit the nail on the head. 

 

"The thing is, ronart, that your situation is really quite typical. You guys have been acting out very stereotypical roles and it hasn't been working, yet you are offended when someone tells you what you can do to change the equation.

 

Even when their advice works, you are still offended. (I think she's talking about how you posted that you got "loving eyes" from your wife after you did a few extra chores).

 

Over and over on this thread, you have told posters they aren't saying the right things in *your* thread. That you don't want their advice, they don't understand you, etc. As I read through the thread, I wonder if you have these some communication patterns with your spouse. Because if you do, then you are teaching your wife to not tell you what she thinks and how she feels. It's a lot easier for her to blame hormones than to explain to someone who isn't a good listener than they aren't a good listener."

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also think this is a very important point.  In this thread you have portrayed yourself as someone who is controlling, argumentative, and very resistant to ideas that worded just so for your benefit.  If your online personality is similar to your in person one it is very likely that your wife, and many other people around you, are just saying what they think you want to hear so they don't have to put up with the time and energy drain that is caused by having to argue with someone with this type of personality.  My mother and brother are like this and they do lose out on a lot of relationships because of this, when they do they think it is all the other person and not them.  I struggle not to be like this and working to change this about myself has really enriched my relationships with others.  It took me seeing my child struggling and anxious though because she was worried she would pick a dessert choice I wouldn't want before I realized that I was perpetuating a negative cycle.  It broke my heart seeing that because I despised my mother so much for behaving the same way and making me that anxious child afraid to make little choices of my own.  Having been on both sides of a strong personality I really encourage you to take some time to reflect on your interactions and reactions with those around you and to try to be mindful of their responses.  It can be a real eye opener.

post #59 of 82

The only person I have noticed being a little over the top on here is the OP. Perhaps there were some other posts deleted.

 

There was a response with a list of suggestions, like "establish a weekly date night, take a bath together, take a child to the park so she can nap", and OP responds with this: 

 

"Wow, you are a really mean and bitter person.  I asked my wife to read your reply and she could not stop laughing at you".

 

That is outright name calling, and demeaning language (we find your advice so stupid, it's laughable, you silly woman).  

post #60 of 82
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Edited by dalia - 5/27/13 at 1:28pm
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