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Overweight children - is it parental neglect? - Page 4

post #61 of 196

Well, some doctors have poor people skills or think it's acceptable to use scare tactics when talking to kids. I'm happy to have the doctor talk to me and let me disseminate the info to ds in a way that I think is appropriate.

post #62 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Pushing babies to eat, then being surprised when they fail to realize when they are full when they're older is an issue. Education can help with that.
 

 

Yep.  I came from a food pusher family.  I was forced (as in not being allowed to get up from the table) to eat whatever and how much my mom put on my plate.  I am not talking about encouraging a kid to try a bite of a new food.  I am talking about cups of mashed potatoes, huge slabs of meat sliding off the plate, multiple servings of beans, more food then an adult should eat.  It was crazy.  As a result, I am NEVER full, ever.  It is like I lost that "switch" that tells my brain I am full.  I am 70+ pounds over weight, eat (almost) only homemade, good foods (no junk) and can't stop eating.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamiro 

 

 

Add in the fact that many people have no idea how delicious eating beans, lentils and the like can be - and how un time consuming they can be with some advanced planning - you can easily see how in certain areas the unhealthy 'tastes good' food wins out.

 

Thankfully I am able to hit the bulk stores for healthy foods, but left to shop around here? Produce bill triples - easily...along with everything else.

 

Recently I listened to a very interesting radio segment about the difference between being poor and food challenged two or three generations ago and poor and food challenged now.  Basically, the point was made that the shift in food stamp benefits towards making it easier for people to buy "junk" or packaged foods, juices, sodas, etc. has created a huge public health issue in the form of obescity, that generations back people were cooking bulk oatmeal, beans and like because that is all they had.  I don't know if it is true (about past generations) but it sort of makes sense to me.

post #63 of 196

Nonsence. Food stamps makes it easier to buy quality foods. Without it, many people would have to depend on things like wic. I dont consider wic foods quality foods. For eg, you are forced to get peanut butter full of hydrogenated oils, rather than the one containing healthy oils. The milk is junk milk, you certainly cant get organic milk. It is not a matter of price. Cereals full of genetically modified corn and so on....

 

I am glad i dont depend on the government to tell me what is healthy (as you do  on wic)

 

Foods stamps just gives  people choice.  Educate the parents, or let them educate themselves. But dont take food money away from the poor.

 

(thats the worst solution i have ever heard of to combat obesity)

post #64 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caneel View Post

 

Yep.  I came from a food pusher family.  I was forced (as in not being allowed to get up from the table) to eat whatever and how much my mom put on my plate.  I am not talking about encouraging a kid to try a bite of a new food.  I am talking about cups of mashed potatoes, huge slabs of meat sliding off the plate, multiple servings of beans, more food then an adult should eat.  It was crazy.  As a result, I am NEVER full, ever.  It is like I lost that "switch" that tells my brain I am full.  I am 70+ pounds over weight, eat (almost) only homemade, good foods (no junk) and can't stop eating.

 

 

 

Recently I listened to a very interesting radio segment about the difference between being poor and food challenged two or three generations ago and poor and food challenged now.  Basically, the point was made that the shift in food stamp benefits towards making it easier for people to buy "junk" or packaged foods, juices, sodas, etc. has created a huge public health issue in the form of obescity, that generations back people were cooking bulk oatmeal, beans and like because that is all they had.  I don't know if it is true (about past generations) but it sort of makes sense to me.


I don't feel ever full either. I mean, I have to be stuffed and bloated before I feel full. I guess I never realized the food pusher and obesity and not feeling full were probably all related.

We eat no HFCS, and 80% of our diet is whole grains, whole food - wholesome food...so I am starting to feel fuller than I use to eating processed food (boxed noodles and the like) ...My husband is thin and he eats the same amount as I do - he is more active than I. I have started a 45 minutes of exercise (zumba, yoga, bellydance etc) every day or every other day recently. I definitely feel better!

 

I actually agree with the radio show. I am NOT saying to take food stamps away from the poor because it does help people make quality choices if they want to..BUT - if every one had to only eat what they actually could grow and afford - we would see more oatmeal, and beans and 'depression' era servings of meat and dairy than we do now.

If you had $4 for food are you going to spend it on a box of oatmeal and some butter or a box of fruit by the foot....

I think that sounds like the point the show was making and I agree with that.


Ok, I really better go get my house clean :)

post #65 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

Nonsence. Food stamps makes it easier to buy quality foods. Without it, many people would have to depend on things like wic. I dont consider wic foods quality foods. For eg, you are forced to get peanut butter full of hydrogenated oils, rather than the one containing healthy oils. The milk is junk milk, you certainly cant get organic milk. It is not a matter of price. Cereals full of genetically modified corn and so on....

 

I am glad i dont depend on the government to tell me what is healthy (as you do  on wic)

 

Foods stamps just gives  people choice.  Educate the parents, or let them educate themselves. But dont take food money away from the poor.

 

(thats the worst solution i have ever heard of to combat obesity)


We've actually hit hard times recently (we live in an area where tourism is a lot of the $$ maker) and have to use the food stamp system periodically.

If we didn't have food stamps we could not eat as healthy as we do. Absolutely costco organic fruits and vegetables in bulk and their beans and rice and all the healthy options they have - HELP with us eating healthy...

However, I had a neighbor who had foodstamps who considered those kinds of food 'poor foods' and would spend the last $4 on a box of (no generic!) cereal over oatmeal. Just poor food choices and I wondered at the time if she would make the same choices if they didn't have more foodstamps coming in XX days and she really had to spend that last amount of food on some thing that was really food.

 

I hope you kwim. I don't think taking away food stamps from people in this economy would solve anything, but there is some truth to the observation made by the radio show IMHO.

post #66 of 196

Blaming obesity on food stamps is illogical. A hundred years ago, people didn't have the option of buying boxed meals, sodas, etc., because they weren't available to purchase. So, they bought beans, oatmeal, etc. The processed, boxed, packaged food has become very, very cheap (and convenient), so people buy it. Food stamps aren't the issue. Cheap, crappy food is the issue. (Well, I think there are multiple issues, but that's one of them - a big one.)

post #67 of 196
Thread Starter 
In the days before food stamps, not very many poor people were obese, true, however many of them were malnourished and even starving. Overweight is better than starving.
post #68 of 196
As far as not wanting the doc to speak directly to my child, I have this to say: I am someone who has suffered from an eating disorder. As such, I know how damaging and confusing a single comment can be to a child who never thought there was anything wrong with his/her body, and now suddenly they are being told that their is something wrong. I don't trust everyone to know what that is like, and sometimes docs can get removed from situations in regards to empathy because they see so many patients or what not. Some doctors are brilliant but can't seem to relate to people on a compassionate level. It's not always their fault, but I have experienced it many times.

Even a very empathetic person can say something very damaging. Because I have so much personal experience, I want to be the one to decide whether or not or how something will be said to my child regarding his weight.
post #69 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

In the days before food stamps, not very many poor people were obese, true, however many of them were malnourished and even starving. Overweight is better than starving.


Sometimes being overweight can be the result of not getting enough nutrition though: the body isn't getting enough vitamins and minerals from the low quality food, so it keeps sending the "hungry" message even when the caloric needs have been exceeded.

post #70 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post

I have lunch with her class often so I know that some of these kids are rail thin even though they eat snack cakes and Lunchables every day.  They won't drink water, ask for soda.  And still, they're skinny.  It's not always fair.

 

I've seen this too. The skinniest boy in my DS's class is also the one whose mom brings him McDonald's for lunch regularly, sends Oreos for his morning snack, etc. So judging solely by the weight of the child can be deceiving -- this boy's mother isn't a better parent than the rest of us because her kid manages to stay skinny despite his poor diet, you know? 

post #71 of 196

The very fact that diabetics are instantly cured of diabetes when they have gastric bypass tells me that the story is much more complicated than calories in-calories out. So much we accept as fact that does not make sense always.

post #72 of 196

As a physician, I see children of all shapes, and although I share my colleagues' concern about the heath consequences of obesity, I'm also concerned that overweight children end up bearing the brunt of these legitimate worries because their (often genetically determined) response to non-nutritious food and sedentary lifestyles is visible, while a slender child may be just as inactive and may eat equally unhealthy processed foods. The health consequences for this child can start out invisible until a medical investigation shows blood sugar or cardiovascular problems. That's why I ask all families about their diet and exercise habits, regardless of their body-mass index. I find that non-judgmental education, and addressing obstacles to change such as difficulty obtaining access to affordable healthy foods or limited time to prepare them, goes much further than a shaming approach. Many parents are aware of the problems and just need encouragement and practical advice, such as quick whole-food recipes and the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce. Sure, there are always folks who don't want to change, but I find the vast majority experience economic and educational rather than motivational obstacles.

post #73 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificMar View Post

 the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce.

 

Cool!  I wonder if that's true here in northern CA.

post #74 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelsmama View Post


Sometimes being overweight can be the result of not getting enough nutrition though: the body isn't getting enough vitamins and minerals from the low quality food, so it keeps sending the "hungry" message even when the caloric needs have been exceeded.



I've actually seen this happen. I know a kid who always asks for third, fourth, and sometimes fifth, slices of bread (just as an example). His family eats plain white bread. When eating a whole wheat/multigrain bread, he stopped at two (a sandwich) and had no interest in any more. While I don't think multigrain bread is the most nutrient dense food available, it's definitely more so than white bread packed with corn syrup, yk? I saw him do the same thing with a lot of other foods...always wanting a bunch of hot dogs, but satisfied with half the amount of good quality meat, etc. It was the first time I realized that he was overweight (not obese), but also malnourished. He wasn't hungry for the calories - they were just a byproduct of his hunger for micronutrients.

post #75 of 196
Quote:
The very fact that diabetics are instantly cured of diabetes when they have gastric bypass tells me that the story is much more complicated than calories in-calories out. So much we accept as fact that does not make sense always.

Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  

post #76 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

I think there's a huge difference between a healthy active kid who is a little higher on the BMI curve and a child who can't walk half a block without gasping for breath and who wears adult XXL gym shorts year-round because they're the only garments that go around the middle and don't drag on the ground.

very true!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snydley View Post

Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  

 

and diabetes is not the only health problem an obese child faces 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4evermom View Post

Well, some doctors have poor people skills or think it's acceptable to use scare tactics when talking to kids. I'm happy to have the doctor talk to me and let me disseminate the info to ds in a way that I think is appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PacificMar View Post

As a physician, I see children of all shapes, and although I share my colleagues' concern about the heath consequences of obesity, I'm also concerned that overweight children end up bearing the brunt of these legitimate worries because their (often genetically determined) response to non-nutritious food and sedentary lifestyles is visible, while a slender child may be just as inactive and may eat equally unhealthy processed foods. The health consequences for this child can start out invisible until a medical investigation shows blood sugar or cardiovascular problems. That's why I ask all families about their diet and exercise habits, regardless of their body-mass index. I find that non-judgmental education, and addressing obstacles to change such as difficulty obtaining access to affordable healthy foods or limited time to prepare them, goes much further than a shaming approach. Many parents are aware of the problems and just need encouragement and practical advice, such as quick whole-food recipes and the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce. Sure, there are always folks who don't want to change, but I find the vast majority experience economic and educational rather than motivational obstacles.

 

I would expect that if a Dr didn't discuss it that would be neglectful! 

 

 

I do find it perplexing that some think you can keep the information (and think it's good too) from a teenage child (6th grade age) that they are "at risk" and not knowing is beneficial. Short of a bubble I don't see it happening or working IRL.

 

I don't get how you tell the Dr not to speak to the child about it - that would really cause "red flag" IMO and make the Dr really wonder about the parent and the child's lifestyle.

post #77 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snydley View Post

Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  


The way I have seen it work in family members who have had the disease is that they are completely insulin dependent diabetic...They got the surgery and they were told never to take insulin again. They were STILL obese/fat when they came out of the surgery. It has been four months for my step mom since the surgery and she was told she was cured and has not had one drop of insulin since she had the surgery. She was still fat, (but she is now down 90 pounds). This has happened to two diabetic family members.

Gastric bypass did not automatically make them thin. The researchers speculate at this point that the gut bacteria is different in obese and something about the surgery corrects that and the diabetes goes away. I believe John Hopkins Univ. is where the research is going on at.

 

Basically, with people who get this surgery the disease vanishes before the fat does.

post #78 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

I do find it perplexing that some think you can keep the information (and think it's good too) from a teenage child (6th grade age) that they are "at risk" and not knowing is beneficial. Short of a bubble I don't see it happening or working IRL.

I don't get how you tell the Dr not to speak to the child about it - that would really cause "red flag" IMO and make the Dr really wonder about the parent and the child's lifestyle.

I for one never said that the child should not know if something is wrong. If the child had an actually problem then of course the doc is going to discuss it with them depending on the age (for instance, if a child is three years old and is diagnosed with leukemia then that will be communicated to the parents first). But if the only problem the doc sees is that the child is overweight, then in my opinion any communication regarding that needs to go from the doc to the parent and then to the child if the parent sees it as an actual problem. A child not fitting into a category concerning their BMI may not be a real problem.
post #79 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

Cool!  I wonder if that's true here in northern CA.

not all of them, but many of them do so here in N CA (that is california).

 

btw there are local organizations helping poorer areas get access to fresh food. the sad part is that the same organizations have found they need to also teach them how to cook or else they dont know what to do with say butternut squash or a healthier way to cook carrots. they do simple food demonstrations. 

post #80 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamiro View Post


I don't feel ever full either. I mean, I have to be stuffed and bloated before I feel full. I guess I never realized the food pusher and obesity and not feeling full were probably all related.
We eat no HFCS, and 80% of our diet is whole grains, whole food - wholesome food...so I am starting to feel fuller than I use to eating processed food (boxed noodles and the like) ...My husband is thin and he eats the same amount as I do - he is more active than I. I have started a 45 minutes of exercise (zumba, yoga, bellydance etc) every day or every other day recently. I definitely feel better!

I actually agree with the radio show. I am NOT saying to take food stamps away from the poor because it does help people make quality choices if they want to..BUT - if every one had to only eat what they actually could grow and afford - we would see more oatmeal, and beans and 'depression' era servings of meat and dairy than we do now.
If you had $4 for food are you going to spend it on a box of oatmeal and some butter or a box of fruit by the foot....
I think that sounds like the point the show was making and I agree with that.


Ok, I really better go get my house clean smile.gif

Do you mean that people in apartments are supposed to grow their own food?


In general, some people make poor food and/or money choices, and believe their choices are good. Sometimes they are open to education, sometimes not. If really poor food was simply not available for them to choose, it would help. People are not going to make their own transfats, or high fuctose corn syrup. Why are those things allowed? And genetic modification? We are experimenting with children on a wide scale. We should be protesting, and trying to change things for the better, not sitting on the sidelines passing judgment.
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