Me too. Hauling my butt to bed now. Report back after a run.
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Dingoes running into the summer sunshine -- June! - Page 12post #222 of 2676/26/13 at 12:02amsparkle--ugh on the dizziness. I get nauseous around ovulation lately. Also, migraines, of which being nauseous is a warning sign, usually before any pain kicks in (go figure). Aging stinks, though I'm glad I have you and a tribe of strong women to journey with.
geo--yes. Therapy is always in the back of my mind and it would be for the anxiety (she is diagnosable; DH pulled out the DSM-IV when she was 2 or 3 and she fit the category perfectly). Given what I know about DH, I suspect the anxiety is almost always the root cause that leads to all the unhelpful behaviors (in R and in DH for that matter...). If there's any comfort in the situation, it's that her peers are pretty much all socio-emotional outliers too (I'd say "basket cases of varying sorts" but that seems so uncharitable! ). The main challenge remains helping her recognize and manage her anxiety rather than fall victim to it. If/when we get to the point that our suggestions aren't helping or she isn't in a space to hear them from us, we'll go that route. That said, I would jump at the chance to go out for a drink with kerc and you and discuss wonderful children with bonus traits. Too bad I'm in the wrong field for professional conferences!
bec--Is there any chance that the girl just said that to be spiteful and her issues are larger than your daughter? We had a girl in our class (and troop) who was going out of her way this spring to be nasty to the other kids. She said some mean stuff to R but apparently was far meaner to some of the other girls, to the point that their parents were meeting with the principal and her parents. R found it vaguely helpful to know that she wasn't being singled out and that it was really an issue on D's end and basically a side effect of her own issues rather than directed attempts to bully anyone. I really hope there's an answer to it beyond being mean. Kids just being nasty is so hard to take and in your position, that much harder!
MelW, bec, 1jooj--hope you have a restful nights and great runs tomorrow.
RR: Almost 2.5 miles run/walk with R this evening. Her endurance is improving quickly, which gives me hope for our 5-miler in a few weeks. DH may be the weak link there, which would be fine.post #223 of 2676/26/13 at 5:25amLol geofizz.
Sigh. In the thick of things it is always hard to see where we're going and where we've been, isn't it?
Family camp is ok. My friend who talked me into coming, who's mom was also coming and who was going to be helping w child care couldn't come. Her fil was dying of blood cancer. He passed last night after a very long fight. I hope they are all in a better place now. RIP Paul.
My week has been ok with Leah, but exhausting so far. My kid is having a hard time leaving my side. At all. Shes managing to sllllowly get there. My dh is driving down tonight with the beater vehicle: no ac and a 7 hr drive. Oh plus our eldest. Whoa.post #224 of 2676/26/13 at 5:26amReal - the excessive TV watching could be related to anxiety. Zoning out in front of the screen is such an easy "escape" from that discomfort.
bec - run! Sorry about the Girl Scout troop issue. I also wonder if the girl in question has issues larger than just your DD, and is using her as an excuse for her bad behavior.
jooj - you run too!
sparkle - age related declines in speed, strength, flexibility noted here too. It stinks.
Pain management visit - the doctor thinks my spine has degenerated further over the last few months and is related directly to my increase in running . He also ordered x-rays and and ultrasound imaging of my right hip, which I am getting tomorrow. He asked me not to run at all for at least the next few weeks. I am getting more steroid injections, into my L5-S1 and SI joint sometime next week so see if that improves the pain. Pretty sure my running days are over at this point. Time to start loving my bike, the pool, and yoga. I just wish I knew why I have so much osteoarthritis (knees, hips, back) at age 45.
Swim meet last night went until 10:30 and we didn't get home until after 11:00. I've never been so happy to wake up to a huge thunderstorm as this morning! Now the kids can sleep in instead of going to practice.post #225 of 2676/26/13 at 7:40am
Aw, JayGee. I wish there were better answers for you. It just seems crazy that running would be causing that kind of damage.
sparkle, I get the weird occasional waves of nausea and dizziness, too! I've decided for the time being to ignore/classify them as "normal." Lately have been feeling a little bad about what I guess I'm calling age-related declines as well. It just feels harder to go harder these days, and that bums me out.
Also bumming me out was the scale at my sister's house. I have been trying so hard lately, and mostly doing well, but falling totally off the wagon a day or two at a time, and then the weekend with my parents led to my coming home a physical mess. Hairline acne?! Since when?? So I took a "before" pic, weighed myself (up 10 pounds since I left UAE!), and bought the Kindle version of Primal Blueprint for inspirational reading. Day 2 again, but I am all in. Reb and I are both working on getting back into our happy places--taking different approaches, but we're on for running/walking together when we can make it happen. I'm sure half of the weight is bloat and inflammation, but still, how much does that suck?!
So, in other words, Runningmommy, I feel your pain and don't have any good answers, except that maybe your body is where it needs to be right now, weight-wise, and maybe there's a food that's causing the bloat problem?
RR: Ran/walked 5 miles this morning, and then "cooled down" another mile walking. Will walk another 3 or so miles this afternoon while the kids are in TKD.post #226 of 2676/26/13 at 8:46am
JayGee - I'm so sorry, mama. I hate that there are plenty of 45 year olds out there for whom the prohibition of running would make exactly no difference or come as a relief but you are not one of those. Not fair! And that 10:30 swim meet end time? Seriously? Is that normal? These are just kids right? My kids have just joined our local team (dd1 is rejoining technically) but the team is now affiliated with USA Swimming which is apparently a big deal but I don't know exactly why. I hope it doesn't mean they get to compete in meets that don't end until after everyone's bedtime!
Real - You know, dd1 is pretty anxious and I totally get what you say about her picking up on things dh says and using them as excuses. That was the main problem with therapy with dd1. She was so smart and creative and concerned about wasting people's time that she could come up with endless reasons for her anxiety. Now she's been taking prozac for a long time and I know it is helping. Each time I think that maybe we should wean her off of it and/or she forgets for a few days (typical when we transition to new wake-up times when the morning routine is off) she'll revert back to having some issue that gets totally blown out of proportion and I realize that it's probably no coincidence. But it still sucks and makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong to have my kid on psychoactive drugs.
Re: Bloating. Yup. I was off the wagon for the weekend in Victoria, though not like I could have been. Mainly rice and naan with Indian, rice and msg with Chinese, an ice cream cone as big as my head. And I'm still bloated and farty even now. And as usual every time I go off the wagon it gets harder to get back on. As for nausea and dizziness with ovulation, oh lordy.
Jo - Back away from the scale.
Kerc - So, is there any chance of seeing you in July??
RR: Boxed yesterday. This is the last week of morning boxing classes for the summer. I'm anxious about what I'll do to keep fit for the rest of the summer because I have been dragging to get to the class I adore, I honestly don't know how I'll motivate myself. I'm sure I'll need y'all to push me around.
NRR: Victoria was fun but at one moment I made a snarky remark to dh, he got really upset, dd1 immediately decided it meant we were getting a divorce, dh and I made up but it cast a pall - hopefully not for everyone but certainly for me. Family trips often highlight how dh and I do or do not support each other and each other's idea of fun. For him every choice comes down to the dollar value, it is a huge effort for him to ignore what is spent in the name of making memories and he'd rather not have an experience at all than shell out $15 and not be that into it, whatever it is. However, he loves to acquire things. Used things. He's got 5, 6? 8? chainsaws. Every day he comes home from the local thrift store with new work clothes. I know that each individual thing he buys used is undoubtedly a "deal" but if he added up what he spends yearly on his "deals" I'm sure I could take a cruise around the world for the same price or less. Obviously I'm in the other camp. I'd rather spend the money doing something I'll remember than load up on <ahem> stuff that I'll have to then deal with cluttering up my house. So vacationing can be hard and ultimately the answer will be that we don't do many together.
Time to head out, to all of you who I haven't hit yet.post #227 of 2676/26/13 at 9:31amBec, more than likely that kind of mean-ness has nothing to do with your dd. I wonder if it's a way to get the friend-of-both all to herself. Nevertheless, that is not okay.
Sparkle, last week when I had that terrible headache, I was also randomly nauseous and had bouts of dizziness, too. Then AF arrived about 3 days later. I thought, for me, maybe it was a combination of hormones and also being dehydrated since I knew I had been drinking too much caffeinated drinks lately and not much water. Whatever it is, it sux!
JG, UGH! You've had so much to deal with. That just stinks! I know it's an old wives' tale and may not be applicable at all but have you thought about trying a whey drink - not the powdered kind (denatured) but the raw/liquid kind with lemon water and a sweetener. I'm sorry. This getting older is so frustrating because it's like as soon as figure out what I need to do, my body changes again. Sigh.
Plady, oh no! No more boxing classes this summer? Can you swim with the girls?
RR: Went for a run yesterday with the dog. Wanted to get him off leash since that's the way we run in the country. So I found an easily accessible back road, leashed him up and headed there. He was so freaking super excited. Then we got to the top of that off-road trail and he sat right down, curled up in a ball and looked at me with this totally blank stare. Weird. I wondered if it was the shade, but we were in lots of shade everywhere. I wondered if he was tired which makes no sense so I waited a while and tried to get him to budge. No Can Do. Hmmm. Then I decided to see if he'd run back with me, so I turned around and headed the way we'd come. When I got to where he was he hopped right up with all that energy and starting running again. Baffled, I turned around, called him and headed back down the dirt road. He sat down again, curled up in a C, and just looked at me with this expression that said, "No way. Not doing it. No can do. Not going. Not moving." I threw my hands up in the air. I was so mad! So I ran back up the hill to where he was and started back home. He jumped up so fast and was gone. Back up the hill. Across the street. Back to the beach. And home. Hmmmm... my only guess is...bear smell? He's familiar with deer. He's treed a porcupine already. He herds deer back home so I don't think he'd be afraid of a moose (one spotted a week ago near here.) So, what would make my dog refuse to do something he absolutely loves?
So no run. I came home and did weights and planks instead. OH well, I can run back home. I really need to take advantage of water workouts while I can.
NRR: Picking up mil and niece at the airport momentarily. Readying for a c-r-a-z-y week! Send me your zen.post #228 of 2676/26/13 at 9:58amQuote:Originally Posted by Plady
My kids have just joined our local team (dd1 is rejoining technically) but the team is now affiliated with USA Swimming which is apparently a big deal but I don't know exactly why. I hope it doesn't mean they get to compete in meets that don't end until after everyone's bedtime
I'm pretty sure it's a big deal so they can charge you a lot of money for entrance fees, and travel expenses (with ever increasing entrance fees) when your kids advance to Nationals in Georgia in July!
JG - I've decided that letting go and acceptance are the buzz words of my forties. I stopped really running 5 years ago. I have only run for spurts on the treadmill in all that time with a few 4-5 milers thrown in every YEAR. It was very hard to let go, but I do get a good endorphin high from the bike and speed walking on the treadmill, and then from weights on top of that. I need to push myself until I feel borderline sick (), and all of those do the job. There is something irreplaceable about the transcendance of a long run, but I dont miss it much anymore. I actually think of it, and the pounding on my poor old bod that it entails, with a little dread now One thing Ive found about not running is that I have really tuned into my body in a way that I hadnt before. I always just went out for a run, not considering what my body needed, and how to be balanced. The weights make me feel amazing; strong, energized, youthful (relatively ) (and the body sculpting isn't bad for the ego either). as you transition. Lots of attention to yourself (you are giving a lot to others these days!)
Jo - Yes, step away. You know how your body feels and that is your benchmark. The number is just a tyrant, no matter what it says. You will get back into balance. I'm sorry for how hard it is to get off track - I know we all beat ourselves up too much, which seems acceptable somehow when we do it to ourselves, but UNACCEPTABLE and abusive when our df's do it to themselves!!
RM - For me its carbs. If I am off carbs, any bloat or stuck weight just melts.... but Im not much into restriction, so I try to just accept those extra 5 pounds around my waist (the spare beach floaty)
RR: weight circuit 90 minutes. Im fit enough at this point to be lifting strong and be getting comments from others in the weight room. Let's just say the sweat-shorts are on the shelf and Im wearing the lycra shorts these days. DD1's kung fu teacher lifts at the same gym, and he cautiously, politely commented to me that I have a great physique "your back is really defined. I can tell that you work hard" I do, but I'd probably rather be getting professional accolades
NRR: YES on the dizzy and nausea 3 days post O, and three days post AF. The only thing I can think is that these are the times when estrogen nose-dives. What a magical-mystery-tour this all is. Oh and Real, I have found a lot of relief from acne by taking mega-doses of fish oil. I started the mega doses for mood, and then my skin got prettypost #229 of 2676/26/13 at 10:22amJG - So what's the deal with the ... not furlough, but something like it? Is dh still looking elsewhere for a job? What does this mean for his employment in general? Is he still even full time (do I recall that he took some kind of early retirement, partial retirement? something...)
Nic - same. What is on the horizon for your family? Is this *just* a bump, and he can find something pretty easily, or does it mean some major life adjustment again?
Plady - I am discovering/re-discovering lately a whole lot of ways that Dh and I are different. Add it to the mid-life reflection period, where it's really hitting me that, yeah, this is the way things were and are, no I'm not going to leave, so this is how they will be (despite, or even with a million conversations and strategy propositions). Kind of sad. Sorry it cast a pall on your trip!post #230 of 2676/26/13 at 5:00pmThread Starter
Wow, so much to write. I've been following along...
On the anxiety/'never wants to finish anything' thing, Real -- yeah. Oldest dd is highly anxious too although it manifests differently. I agree with the ideas of giving less choices overall and reducing screen time if possible. I see a huge -- and I mean HUGE -- correlation between screen time and behavior with all my kids. It manifests differently depending on the child but the consequences are so obvious especially for oldest dd and ds (youngest). I am not as successful with limiting this now as much as I'd like to, especially in the summer. Working on it....sigh. Other mamas have had much better input than I can offer and are probably (as with most things it seems) much more successful about carrying the 'simplicity' style natural parenting into their kids' non-baby/toddler years. I wish I could simplify, eliminate or highly reduce screen and technology time, get my kids more integrated with the outdoors and athletics, teach them meditation so they can manage their anxiety, feed them nearly 100% whole healthy foods, etc. I am working on many of these things in small ways but overall I feel like a Big. Fat. Zero. My kids are great but I really have not succeeded very well in 'walking the walk' of many of my ideals.
Jo -- I agree with Plady. Step away from the scale. It's the worst kind of tyrant, and mean spirited at that. I have similar mid 40's weirdness -- dizziness, bloating, weird fartiness that seems to be recent and very unnerving and why I cannot go to yoga class anymore for fear of really embarassing myself random night sweats, etc. etc. It doesn't help that I have chronic Celiac flareups (origins unknown); the vegan diet helps but if I'm not careful can add to the bloating. Unlike Sparkle, I am so not good about getting in core and strength work that would really help with muscle definition and feeling strong. I rely on the cardio -- running and sometimes now a bit of swimming -- to get me back in tune with my zone and find my physical equilibrium. I have GOT to get more strength work in but I just...I am so bad. I don't know why I am so gosh-darn resistant to it. I have advice, plans, etc. and I never feel like doing it. Gah. You really go through so much each year -- moving across the world twice a year! Holy smokes! Find your center and strength again because it makes you feel healthy and strong and fully in charge of your enormous capability and potential, not because of a scale number.
JayGee, I'm so sorry you're having so many physical troubles. I hope you find your way to something that works for you and builds you up rather than breaks you down.
Sparkle, I don't know, with dh's situation. He's really unforthcoming about what progress is (or isn't) being made. Thankfully this time we have a little safety cushion but it won't last forever. I told him though that regardless of where he finds something, I and the kids are not moving for at least a year. I am committed to my job and the kids are (finally!) stable; this is the first time ever they're going to the same school 3 years running. He did not agree or disagree but I didn't really leave room for negotiation about it. He likes it here though so I think the plan is that we need to try and stay. The stress and anxiety however, are certainly taking a toll on me again. I am not sleeping well at all.
RR: Swimming tonight, hopefully up early for a run tomorrow. We are having pretty hot weather so I want to get the run in before the temps rise over 80.post #231 of 2676/26/13 at 5:52pmpost #232 of 2676/26/13 at 6:56pm
Enjoy, Plady! (Still farty here too.)
Nic, could legumes or gluten-free grains be giving you problems with their various lectins? Is it possible to do some sort of legume-by-legume exploration? Or a sensitivity to a veg?
Thanks ladies for your support and the kick in the pants. The reason I weighed was because I was feeling the expansion beyond comfort, and I guess I felt like I needed to know what I would be up against, and I suppose I also figured catching the number would help make it more concrete. It worked. Anyway, Day 2 totally on the wagon has come and gone. I have no plans for extended stays with family anytime soon, and Ramadan pretty well ensures a month of privacy. So while I am bummed about how out of control I let things get and how fast, I am pretty confident I can get this all back in range pretty reasonably.
Tomorrow should be a nice, relaxing day. Maybe sneak in a swim, do some yoga, maybe stroll. Nothing hard. Wanted to drive to Madison, but second-guessing the Bug, especially in the heat.post #233 of 2676/26/13 at 7:47pmjaygee~ I'm sorry, mama. Just seems totally unfair.
lofty~He must have smelled some animal that he didn't want anything to do with...sorry you didn't get your run in.
I have not done much of anything since my race on Saturday. I had great intentions to get up and get a workout in before DS got home on Monday, but I was so tired when I woke up that I slept past 10 instead. I've been in class the past two days, and trying to spend some time with (and avoid being driven totally crazy by) DS in between. Man, I sure did miss that kid, but he went right back to driving me nuts SO fast. At some point, the listening thing comes back, right? Sigh.
My class the last two days was pretty awesome. It was the fetal monitoring class to prepare for orienting to labor, and if only all classes were like that! Not boring at all, and I learned SO much. I'm so excited to learn labor now!
rr~A bonus to having class today, I got to participate in Bike to Work day for the first time! I rode in with my friend and Courage Classic teammate who lives a couple of blocks away. She and her DH regularly bike commute to the medical campus, so she was my guide for the best way to get there. We got to the breakfast station with plenty of time to get coffee, bagels, breakfast burritos, and lots of freebies. Less than 12 miles round trip, but at least it was something, right? And it was fun.post #234 of 2676/26/13 at 9:49pmkerc--good luck to your DH. Hopefully the weather gave them a break and they were able to have a decent drive.
JayGee--I'm so sorry about the latest round of news. That's crazy. Glad your kids didn't have to be up early after such a late night last night.
Plady--yes, and I think the medication is an ever harder thing to deal with when you're part of communities that really value not going the medical route. The fact that you're responding to her needs means that you're an excellent mother. Sorry to hear about the DH/vacation/$ conflict. I think vacations are particularly hard that way. We're headed to Steamboat Springs next week when the in-laws arrive, and even though I'm excited to be going up there, the price of the motel is ridiculous (or I'm very out of touch).
lofty--sending much zen for the in-laws. I'll be pulling some out of the universe starting on Monday when my in-laws and associated anxiety arrive (to be fair, MIL only accounts for part of her anxiety; my mother also is anxiety-prone, though differently).
sparkle--I've been trying to up my dose of fish oil based on your earlier comments. I am learning much from you about this peri-menopausal thing, oh wise Dingo woman.
Nic--you're doing plenty, parenting-wise. In my more cynical moments, I tend to think that the ideal of meditation and no screen time with children happily engaging in outdoor activities and never say, being a PITA might go along the same lines as the blogs with the beautiful pictures of carefree children playing barefoot in sweaters knit from the wool of the sheep on the family farm.... At any rate, I"m still trying to find the balance between my ideals and the reality of what patience and energy I have to give to those ideals. Some days are better than others but I'm sure you are doing a fabulous job.
tjsmama--yay for biking to work today! I'd imagine they have a great station on campus. DH has only done it once--with most of the commute taking place with the bike on the bus, of course.
RR: 10 miles on the bike + 1 to take the bike to the bike mechanic for the horrible creaking nose the crank started making. (I'm hoping it's just part of the breaking-in period, but it will be covered no matter what because I've only had it for a week and a half. I checked a bunch of bolts and such, but that didn't fix it). Then I put in 1350 meters in the pool after dropping off the bike. There are benefits to having my bike store and gym be less than a mile from my house.
NRR: it was the day of mechanical problems. First there was the bike crank issue that surfaced while I was riding before DH went to work. Then I took the kids to swim lessons and realized I'd forgotten my phone. When we get in the car after lessons, I discover that my turn signals have stopped working. At some point I realize my brake lights also aren't working...and I don't have a phone to call DH. Eventually I remembered I could open the window and use hand signals, and happily, my window even opened (the driver's side window only operates when it feels like it and the mechanics haven't been able to figure out why). Got home, got my phone, took DH's car to get the girls to violin lessons. He took the car to the mechanic, but it meant I had to ride my bike over to the bike shop despite the creaking because the car that has the bike hitch was also not operational.
Current tally: 1 bike in the shop, 1 car in the shop, 45 hours 'til we leave to go to the mountains for a week, preferably with said bike and said car. ETA: If this sounds familiar, it's because our car has a habit of wanting to visit the mechanic when we want to go to the mountains. It also has recurring electrical problems. I remember driving it to campus when R was a baby and having someone roll down his window and tell me my brake lights weren't working. It's 12 years old, but still 6 years younger than our Saturn.post #235 of 2676/26/13 at 10:27pmDh and dd1 made it! Yay ! Dh was waaaay crabbier than dd.
Dd2 had an awesome day woot!
I had a beer.
I'm riding my bike tomorrow.
Life is good.
Jo: when I fall off a wagon it's a big fall. Big. And quick. 2 weeks out of routine? Yep. But fortunately usually a kick in the pants is all I need. So here's yours ---> ##.
Real: cars. Bikes. Vacation. Yes.
Jay gee: I'm sorry to hear you can't run. I hope it's figured out quickly. I've heard of people going gluten free and feeling a lot less symptoms.post #236 of 2676/26/13 at 10:29pmpost #237 of 2676/27/13 at 6:40am
JG - I'm so sorry you didn't have better news.
Jo - Definitely step away from the scale. I have been struggling with weight, well, all my adult life. Right now, I am the heaviest I have been for a few years. And the weight doesn't seem to be budging, in spite of a pretty consistent good diet (maybe a bit too much alcohol for calorie purposes). And, I would think the sheer amount of exercise I have been doing would make SOME difference. I do 2+ hour workouts for 4-6 days a week! But, nothing. And, no, clothes aren't really getting looser either, so, it isn't a muscle gain/fat loss thing. I'm trying to be zen about it. Struggling very hard. I am trying to focus on being thankful that I am able to push my body hard for that many hours at a time.
RR: No, I did not get to that run yesterday. But, I did get a great lake swim in. 1.5 miles in 50 minutes. I'm calling it good! The only downside is that my swim cap that I have been using from the Racine 70.3 ripped. Bummed about that!post #238 of 2676/27/13 at 6:56am
Bec, have your discussed this with a doctor? Indeed, your health habits seems out of sync with your weight struggles. I do wonder if there's something organic that's making this harder for you.
JG, I think I'd be in mourning in your case. I'm frustrated for you. I hope you can find peace and a suitable replacement to running.
Sparkle, we found DD's therapist from a list that BBM sent me after she posted my request on a therapist e-list in the area. The two ladies I've been running with also have kids seeing therapists. One found the therapist through her pediatrician, and the other one found the therapist through church connections. It requires asking a lot of questions, for sure, particularly since a personal match is so crucial for something like this.
kerc, Paris was great. Fantastic. DD came home and came down with the flu 36 hours after coming home, so with the flu and major jet lag, she really suffered. We still hope to hear about the trip.post #239 of 2676/27/13 at 9:13am
jaygee~ I'm so sorry about the dx. Good luck with the next round of tests/exams/ whatnot.
lofty~ That story was freaky! Maybe the dog saved you from a mama bear protecting her cubs. Or a rabid mountain lion. Or a panda that escaped from the local zoo. (That just happened here.) Or a regular old house cat hopped up on some 'roids left behind by irresponsible campers. The possibilities are endless; so glad you're safe!
tjsmama~My kids can be gone for an entire week and be driving me batshit crazy within 30 minutes of walking in the door. I'm blame it on too harsh of a transition.
nrr~We (my dad and three dc's) went to the National Marine Corps Museum yesterday. Pretty cool. The people who created that museum (that would be the marines, I guess, doh!) did a great job making it kid-friendly and experiential. Almost too experiential, iykwim. But the kids really liked it. And, I survived a total of 5 hours in the car with all of them, so there's that.
rr~I finally bit the bullet and got up at the god-forsaken hour of 7 a.m. (That's for those of you getting out the door in the middle of the night, a.k.a. 5 a.m.--ahem, bec.) 5 miles, push-ups, and planks to atone for yesterday's Chex Mix, Starbucks, Wendy's, and chinese carry-out. Hmmm, after seeing that typed out, I'm thinking 5 miles barely even touched yesterday's mess. Better than nothing, though, so I'm embracing it.post #240 of 2676/27/13 at 10:29am
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