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Reasons for not vaccinating children? - Page 8  

post #141 of 150

Due to multiple flags centered on one word ---

If your post contains the word neurotic, please go and edit it out as well as ANY thing that can look like or IS name calling.

 

In fact, please take this opportunity to look over your own posts in this thread and reword if at any time what you are saying can be construed as name calling.

Snarky talk is also not respectful, and should merit some self examination as well as posting examination.

 

I'll go through the thread tomorrow and send out PM's asking for edits not properly done. For now, its late and I'm asking people to take responsibility for their part in keeping this a community that respects and honors Mothering's User agreement. http://www.mothering.com/community/a/user-agreement

 

The only other options left after this are:

I can begin restricting users from the thread or lock the thread.

 

I'd rather do neither.

 

 

For clarity RyanT (the OP) asked this question:

 

Quote:
Now my question is simply, what is the reasoning behind preventing your children from being vaccination?

 

You can choose to answer, or not...but you must stay inside the bounds of Mothering's User agreement

 

Quote:
We expect our members to keep conversations civil and on topic, and uphold the integrity and diversity of the community. We value the honest and supportive exchange of ideas and opinions, and we ask that members avoid negative characterizations and generalizations about others. Examples and calm explanation are more useful than condemnation of ideas that differ from Mothering's philosophies.

 

 

Also

 

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Hate posts and personal attacks will not be tolerated. Treat others as you would want to be treated. Attacking someone to provoke a negative response is not allowed.

 

 

 

Please look over your posts with an honest heart and make the right choice.

 

Take care ladies...

post #142 of 150
kamiro--i edited mine, let me know if i missed anything.


kathymuggle--i'm really not angry nor volatile. I was feeling like the center of attention when it wasnt my intention to be. It makes sense that i was but i didnt realize that would happen when i first started posting. I think this may have added to the intensity of my words.

Like i said before, i am a tough person and when a conversation gets heated i often sound a bit angry but i'm just a passionate person. I really dont think i was spiraling, just on a long tangent lol.gif. I dont know what more i can do to add to the conversation, it seems to have diverted quite a bit from the original discussion. Maybe someone can start a new thread if they want to discuss anything that was discussed here.
post #143 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimordialMind View Post

Mirzam and Marnica--can you disprove what is being stated in the links i gave? I am not trying to be snarky or whatever, i'm being sincere. I figured the info about the trials is just how it is, i didnt get the impression they were lying or embellishing about the process. Also, the book i linked to is very interesting and a great historical reference for the social and political aspect of the making of vaccines. Again, if you can disprove that source i am all ears. If you simply dont like them because they're "pro-vax" then i'd venture to say you're the ones that are biased.

Also, the reasons why people are questioning vaccines is probably wide-ranging. I mentioned one possibility that people were offended by, other possibilities could be rumors they've heard about vaccines causing autism or other long-term health problems, the ingredients scaring them off, lack of trust in the medical community, lack of awareness of how vaccines work and how the body processes them, or a belief that we simply dont need them in order to be healthy. There is a lot of info out there that is very easy to buy into and all it does is fuel the fire for being against vaccines. Some people dont trust the pro-vax sources so they gravitate towards anti-vax. Completely unbiased sources is rare. I've been going through the archives of the non-vax subforum here and most links are either subtly anti-vax or strongly anti-vax. Thats not going to help someone who is new or sitting on the fence, either. There is also a strong cult vibe to that subforum, like they all believe the same thing, nothing is going to change their mind and they enjoy banding together in order to feel stronger. It doesnt feel very inviting, even if i were a non-vaxer, i would feel put off by the intensity of the anger and fear that is present there.

PM.

 

I have read the rest of the thread, but wanted to respond to you because you have asked me a direct question. The answer is I don't know because I haven't looked at your links. I responded to you initially not about the evidence or lack thereof that you have presented, but in response to your statement that you "despise" the expectation that all beliefs should be respected simply because they are someones beliefs. I found this narrow minded and disrespectful and was letting you know (since you shared your primary purpose was to plant seeds and not stand by as people put forth beliefs/evidence that were wrong) that I get turned off by this type of attitude and as another poster mentioned upthread, when this happens the discussion tends to shut down. That was my point in my original response you you. Once respect is gone, one ceases to learn. You have actually illustrated my point nicely winky.gif. In any case, I have no interest in proving or disproving anything. As Mirzam shared, I am ok with my choice and I'm ok with others choices and respect them whether or not I agree with them. I find trying to sway people's opinions a waste of time and energy .I am a very busy lady. I work full time, have 2 active children and only come on this site when a patient doesn't show up and I have a few extra minutes. 

 

In any case, I do agree with you that all sources are biased to some degree. A truly non-biased source of information doesn't exist imo. I also find your comment about a link being "antivax" because of the comment section bizarre. What does the comment section of any link provided have to do with whether or not a source is credible or unbiased? Anybody can make a comment on a link, doesn't make it pro or anti anything. All it means is that someone with a pro or anti vax opinion is commenting something. 

 

With that said I'm out Bolt.gif

post #144 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimordialMind View Post

Well then, in that case, i was being respectful because i just wanted to know why she refused to answer simple, non-attacking questions. All she did was give me attitude. If she cant respect that this is a public forum where people are going to ask questions then she shouldnt be so open about her beliefs.


You actually straight up said "I do not respect these beliefs"

It seemed to me that the rationale for not respecting them was because you did not agree with them.

There are countless things that I do not agree with that I respect anyway. There is a difference.
post #145 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

My Creator did not design my or my children's body to be loaded with artifical means of health.  He gave us an immune system for a reason, and a functioning one at that.  Man has the capability to ruin that which our Creator gave us.  I will not put pharma's needs  greeds or false promises, over our Creator.  

Hebrews 11:1" Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see"
She's making a statement of faith here, if you can physically prove it, it's not faith anymore.

1 Corinthians 1:18 "the message of the cross is foolishness to the perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"
Sorry if her beliefs sound like foolishness to some of you, but to her (and me) it is Power!
post #146 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LilChunklins View Post

You actually straight up said "I do not respect these beliefs"

It seemed to me that the rationale for not respecting them was because you did not agree with them.

There are countless things that I do not agree with that I respect anyway. There is a difference.

I made that statement because i thought people were wanting me to come from a place of agreement before i said anything. I know thats not technically what respect is, but i couldnt figure out why anyone had an issue with me wanting her to answer simple questions about illness and biology. When she wouldnt answer them and gave me an attitude after that, any respect i had went out the window. Maybe this makes me a "lesser" human but i felt disrespected for simply wanting to understand her perspective. It is totally new to me and sounds very far-fetched, which is why i wanted basic questions answered. I couldnt figure out any other reason for her not wanting to answer them than the fact that she didnt have logical answers. To me and to the majority of people, this completely defies reality since, as far as i can tell, we all live on the same planet with the same physical and biological laws. Therefore, i cannot respect what appears to be made-up nonsense.

So then when someone said "you dont have to agree with someone in order to respect them" i said, well in that case, i was respectful. Do you understand my perspective now?
post #147 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

PM.

I have read the rest of the thread, but wanted to respond to you because you have asked me a direct question. The answer is I don't know because I haven't looked at your links. I responded to you initially not about the evidence or lack thereof that you have presented, but in response to your statement that you "despise" the expectation that all beliefs should be respected simply because they are someones beliefs. I found this narrow minded and disrespectful and was letting you know (since you shared your primary purpose was to plant seeds and not stand by as people put forth beliefs/evidence that were wrong) that I get turned off by this type of attitude and as another poster mentioned upthread, when this happens the discussion tends to shut down. That was my point in my original response you you. Once respect is gone, one ceases to learn. You have actually illustrated my point nicely winky.gif
. In any case, I have no interest in proving or disproving anything. As Mirzam shared, I am ok with my choice and I'm ok with others choices and respect them whether or not I agree with them. I find trying to sway people's opinions a waste of time and energy .I am a very busy lady. I work full time, have 2 active children and only come on this site when a patient doesn't show up and I have a few extra minutes. 

In any case, I do agree with you that all sources are biased to some degree. A truly non-biased source of information doesn't exist imo. I also find your comment about a link being "antivax" because of the comment section bizarre. What does the comment section of any link provided have to do with whether or not a source is credible or unbiased? Anybody can make a comment on a link, doesn't make it pro or anti anything. All it means is that someone with a pro or anti vax opinion is commenting something. 

With that said I'm out Bolt.gif

I think you may have missed where i explained myself when it comes to the respect issue (or maybe you dont agree or understand) so i'll try to explain further. Pretty much every person on this planet holds beliefs. Many of these people are simply attaching to their parent's beliefs. Many of these people are parroting others or hoping and praying that their beliefs are real. They cant really explain why they believe them nor do a lot of them even try other than quotes. Most of the time, i leave these people be, even though i dont agree with them and in the back of my mind i'm doubting that the beliefs are true. But its not really my place to get in their face and make them question beliefs that i usually cant prove right or wrong anyway.

Occasionally someone comes along who shares beliefs that i (and the majority of people) can prove wrong AND is a potentially very dangerous way of going about life. I simply will not stand by and keep my mouth shut, especially if children are involved. So, on the surface, it appears that i'm just a big bully but i am actually looking out for people and their children. Not wanting to face reality is a huge problem if it involves the well-being of others, especially children. I simply dont buy into "your reality" and "my reality" type thinking because there is no proof of that and there are countless experiences of people believing the same sort of thing who learned the hard way that their beliefs are false. Maybe if people point this out enough the ones who believe that sort of thing will re-think what they hold to be true. I dont know, but i'm compelled to try.

You also missed my point when it comes to the anti-vax bias. I acknowledged that those are mainstream sources, but all around the source there are several comments that are on the other side of the spectrum. Thus, its not consistent and doesnt give a clear message. I can give plenty of links but if in my own words i'm saying something else then what am i really communicating? So since the majority of comments are anti-vax, the links have an inconsistent foundation making them much less credible and almost just for show.
post #148 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LilChunklins View Post

Hebrews 11:1" Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see"
She's making a statement of faith here, if you can physically prove it, it's not faith anymore.

1 Corinthians 1:18 "the message of the cross is foolishness to the perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"
Sorry if her beliefs sound like foolishness to some of you, but to her (and me) it is Power!

So, in the case of the first quote, if you can physically disprove it then what does the statement become?

You probably dont mean it this way, but the second quote is insulting. Just because a person isnt a Christian of that denomination doesnt necessarily mean they are "perishing". I know you are quoting the Bible, but i find it rude. It also doesnt answer any of my questions.
post #149 of 150

Some times you just have to know when to throw in the towel...argue.gif

 

Threads locked.

 

We're all adults so I'm sure you can see that it would take an hour of my time to clean this up, document, send PM's... and no guarantees it would even make sense afterwards.

 

 

 

Let's play nicer on the next thread, ok?

post #150 of 150

Excuse the off topic post but this is a popular thread so I want to hitch a ride on it for the benefit of the community. orngbiggrin.gif

 

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