or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Debate › feminism and vaccine issues
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

feminism and vaccine issues - Page 2

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

I think that the moms who delay/withhold vaccines are more likely to be the moms who breastfeed, and are also more likely to feed a healthy diet.  

 

On the other hand, I'd like to see some research comparing autoimmune disorders in vaxed and unvaxed populations.  Yes, there are many things that can set of autoimmune disease--but if vaccination is not only one of them, but one of the strongest factors, that could have an awful lot of ramifications...

 

 

Certainly there are a lot of factors.  If I could get my hands on an OSHA report from some very prominent places on some very interesting locations we could have a field day as to why not only AI's but certain forms of cancers are prominent in certain areas.  See, I prefer not to narrow my scope.

post #22 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

There are plenty of women (mom's or otherwise) who are pro-vaccine and even women who are medical doctors. So I think you're over interpreting this as a battle of the sexes....

Oh, absolutely.

 

Just because a female works in an industry does not mean the industry does not have sexism in it.

 

You can be pro-vax and acknowlegde sexism if you see it.  The two are not mutually exclusive.  

post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 

I'd like to see something on that one.  I've never heard it before.

 

 

I think it has something to do with gut flora.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health-navigator/c-section-babies-missing-crucial-gut-bacteria-study-finds/article8440728/

post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Just because a female works in an industry does not mean the industry does not have sexism in it.

 

 

I hear you. I really don't need telling this as a female working in the physical sciences! ;)

 

Still think that pitching objections to anti-vax ideas as sexism is a bit of a stretch. But I think we might have to agree to disagree on that (as with so much). 

post #25 of 34

There is NO using the word 'miracle' in any type of scientific way. It is a fundamentally religious word, that describes an anti-science concept. NOTHING in science can be considered 'miraculous'. The whole problem with Vax Science is the 'science as religion' BELIEF apriori that vaccines are 'miracles' above control groups rather than just regular pharmaceutical products (which is what they actually are).

 

In any case, people who are nominally considered Feminists in the US today are RABIDLY ProVax, they are also RABIDLY ProCirc (they believe biased science that considers Circ to be a 'surgical vax'), but they are also mostly Pro Corporate & Pro Gates.

 

I am a feminist and I am pro Corporate Accountability and Pro Mother. The Vax Safety movement has been filled with angry mothers of Vax Injured children, dating back @ least 100 years. This is supported by Congressional Testimony, etc. 100 years ago there was a Barbara Loe speaking to Congress. More info on this can be found in 'Pox: An American History'.

 

My end of any social contract is upheld by Breastfeeding well into early school years, by abstaining from Tobacco & not allowing others to compromise my child's health by smoking around them, by practicing health informatics & following outbreaks, by educating about Vax side effects and contraindications and by speaking out for the Vax Injured. It is really convenient that a social contract would be fulfilled by patronizing a multinational pharmaceutical company.

 

For example, I have a cosmetic condition that could be TREATED (not cured) by taking toxic pharmaceuticals that would adversely affect my immunity. I would never do that, in a million years, someone else would. But maybe they contribute in ways I don't. If 'herd immunity' even exists, it is so much more complex than just vaccinating and calling it a day.

 

I believe that we ALL choose our contribution to the social contract (that is freedom) and that NO child is so rare that they DON'T COUNT. In that way it is FEMINIST to stand up for the mothers and children who are told they are so rare that they DO NOT MATTER.

 

I also believe that freedom is essential to life on earth, and if we are mandated to put certain controversial products that are manufactured by companies that are liability protected, that are OFTEN convicted in courts of straight up Criminal Activity (see GSK & China just now), then that is Tyranny. Part of my contribution to the rights of women and the social contract is to speak up against that.

post #26 of 34

/member hat

Quote:
 I am more interested in the argument that people should vaccinate so parents, primarily mothers,  do not miss work for this thread)

Interesting concept for a thread!

I think that if a person is already choosing to vaccinate then the 'not missing work' is most definitely a 'pro'. If a person is not inclined to vaccinate themselves or their children than I think that argument would matter very little.

 

I did read an article a bit back from various mothers about how choosing to vaccinate was very important for them as single mothers because if they can't pay their rent due to missing work with an illness they feel a vaccine could have prevented - they and children wind up homeless with no one to blame but themselves.

I understand that fear- I have refrained or engaged in various activities to make bills, or made decision on if I had health insurance or not...so if I was on the fence about vaccination that could totally throw me over on to the pro side.

 

As an aside, I've ran day care and helped watch children a few times who were sick or ill with colds and flu for moms who need to work and can't take the time off. The one time we got sick (mild case), the other few times we didn't. I felt that the moral thing to do is  to support these working mothers and sometimes that has involved putting my belief into action.

Would I do the same for a polio infected child, or one of the children from the area where death from the mystery illness in India is common http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/world/africa/as-mystery-illness-stalks-its-young-india-intensifies-search-for-a-killer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0? You know, I can't be honest and say that I would. I don't know enough at this point - but I would hope I would make the right choice for every one.

 

 

Quote:
I also believe that freedom is essential to life on earth, and if we are mandated to put certain controversial products that are manufactured by companies that are liability protected, that are OFTEN convicted in courts of straight up Criminal Activity (see GSK & China just now), then that is Tyranny.

I have to say I agree.

post #27 of 34

Interesting to bring in Daycare. One thing I ran into when I ran a 2 child care home, as well as worked in a large center is that we HAVE to exclude for fever, we aren't allowed to say 'that is just a vax reaction'. Since fever after Vax is incredibly common, actually a LOT of children were sent home, and as there are how many Vax dates between 0 and 2? When I watched children @ home, I advised all parents to vax on Fridays. That way THEY don't have to get called @ work, and *I* don't have to monitor a child for a vaccine reaction. Also that way other children do not get exposed (to live vax shedding from the few live vaxes that could theoretically shed). (All my parents were M-F parents).

 

Conversely tho, the two vaxes my son DID receive were during this period, because I don't feel a social obligation to vax UNLESS I am engaging in a higher risk liability/activity like Daycare . . . 


Edited by dinahx - 7/15/13 at 5:38pm
post #28 of 34

Also my desire to currently abstain from Vax is a large part of why I choose NOT to work as a daycare provider now. I believe @ the point I would charge money I would definitely be obligated to disclose. I think institutions have a special set of unique concerns. I do change my activity level regarding public spaces to a degree as an alternate contribution to the social contract.

post #29 of 34

(Sorry hope this isn't off topic) --- When I did daycare one of the children (I only had two plus my two) had chicken pox on his body that they would cover with bandages. He didn't have many, they would just form and weep and go away. Then they would appear at different spots. Never more than 3 or 4 if I recall correctly.

The doctor had said that it would stop doing that eventually, it was just how his body reacted to the chicken pox vaccine. I watched the child because I wasn't concerned about my children getting pox, and the other child was the kids cousin so that mom was fully informed of the situation.

 

I would not have been able to watch him without the other parent being fully informed.
The flu and cold times i have watched kids (that we got sick) were also siblings, or a singleton.

 

My daycare never got very big (uhh after those two and not getting paid I just went back to work), but I wanted to be registered with the state mostly because you had more options for clientele.

Nowadays, since I have nothing to do with state and have my hands full with my own kids -I baby sit when needed...but no daycare title. ROTFLMAO.gifJust for clarification.

post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

Also my desire to currently abstain from Vax is a large part of why I choose NOT to work as a daycare provider now. I believe @ the point I would charge money I would definitely be obligated to disclose. I think institutions have a special set of unique concerns. I do change my activity level regarding public spaces to a degree as an alternate contribution to the social contract.


Same here, actually. ITA.

post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 

 

Certainly there are a lot of factors.  If I could get my hands on an OSHA report from some very prominent places on some very interesting locations we could have a field day as to why not only AI's but certain forms of cancers are prominent in certain areas.  See, I prefer not to narrow my scope.

It's good to keep an open mind.  You might want to take care; it's easy to miss something very obvious (like injected thimerosal and aluminum sulfate playing a major role in both AI's and ASDs) when one is looking at all the possible external factors.

 

For that matter, injected thimerosal and aluminum sulfate may play an even more important role in an individual who lives in one of those "very interesting locations" you mention.

 

Remember, we already know that thimerosal and aluminum have a much more toxic effect when given together.  What if they were given in an area that had significant mercury pollution?  What happens in areas within a mile of high-voltage power lines?  Those might be enough to cause significant problems even without vaccines.  What happens when you add vaccines into the mix?

post #32 of 34

http://www.scorecard.org

 

Off topic a little but this is a VERY helpful website that helps us to decide where to locate our family when we move. It has limits (only covers what is actually reported to the EPA, not 100% up to 2013, may focus on industrial vs. agricultural pollution) but is absolutely better than nothing. We live in a spot with between 1-2000 pounds of pollution per year. A spot 25 minutes away that many might suggest we could get a slightly better deal on housing has several MILLION pounds of pollution per year (of course I know that pollution travels & knows no county line, but again, harm reduction rather than elimination).

 

I do think industrial pollution is a HUGE contributor to human illness . . . I mean most obviously, more cancer equals more chemotherapy equals more immunocompromise and much industrial pollution consists of very much established carcinogens. <3

post #33 of 34
Bumping this up because a relevant article recently came out. Barbara's on my wavelength! http://www.nvic.org/nvic-vaccine-news/july-2013/witch-hunting-jenny-mccarthy-for-vaccine-talking.aspx
post #34 of 34

Another relevent article today - not specific to women debating vaccine safety but about any women who are vocal online and the abuse they are often subjected to as a result: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23488550

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Vaccinations Debate
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Debate › feminism and vaccine issues