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Looks promising "First Vaccine Against 4 Flu Strains Ready to Ship" - Page 2

post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post


Wow. scientific proof that flu vaccine not only doesnt work, but result sin MORE illness? and teacozy is all excited that the vaccine manufacturers don't bother to address the safety issues of the flu shot, but instead keep rolling out new versions while still offering the old ones?

And in the midst of teacozy's excitement over this new possibility of vaccine-induced illness,teacozy is spectacularly unconcerned about those who are either forced or pressured to get a flu shot against their better judgment?

Somehow, that seems so...inconsistent with an attachment parenting forum.

 

Aren't personal attacks against the forum rules? 

 

In any case, here is a study with over 1100 people. Double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial. 

 

"Design  Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial conducted during 2 influenza seasons.

 

 

Adverse Effects and Blinding

 

During both study years, only arm soreness (for 1997-1998, 315 [53%] of 594 vs 106 [18%] of 586 [P<.001]; for 1998-1999, 309 [53%] of 582 vs 130 [22%] of 595 [P<.001]) and redness at the injection site (for 1997-1998, 86 [14%] of 594 vs 34 [6%] of 586 [P<.001]; for 1998-1999, 92 [16%] of 582 vs 45 [8%] of 595 [P<.001]) were reported more often by vaccine recipients than by placebo recipients. No other adverse effects, including fever, myalgia, headache, fatigue, rhinitis, or sore throat, were reported significantly more often by vaccine recipients, nor did they report significantly more lost workdays or physician visits." 

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=193139

post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Ok I am not seeing the problem.  Unless you live in one of the two states that don't have exemptions then I am not sure why this is such an issue.  If you don't want any vaccines then you will have already filed an exemption, which would include the flu vaccine. 

Why is it that people have to opt out?  Shouldn't people have to opt-in?  Why do those of us who do not want invasive medicine have to do additional work to avoid that invasive medicine?

 

Sus

post #23 of 28

Good luck marketing it over here. I see it's approved for kids aged 3 and over. With the Fluvax fiasco still fresh in Australian parents' minds, one insurer found that 60% of parents don't intend to give their kids a flu vaccine. With low parental confidence in flu vaccines and still no no-fault compensation for parents of injured children, I'd imagine there's less high-fiving going on here.

post #24 of 28
Teacozy, the study you posted is from 14-15 years ago, and was directed by the CDC Epidemic Intelligence Service Officer, who is now the CDC's Associate Director of Adult Immunizations.

The study posted by Mirzam is much more recent, and the Hong researchers appear to be free of the conflict if interest shared by the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers. It also provides proof that
1) The flu shot does not prevent lab-confirmed influenza any better than placebo
2) the flu shot results in nearly 5 times the number of flu-like illnesses as placebo
3) the flu shot results in lowered ability to fight off other viral infections.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Yep, keep up those vitamin D levels, especially as the majority of the flu isn't the flu at all, so of course the flu shot isn't going to work. As Peter Doshi PhD, said in his BMJ review, "Influenza: marketing vaccines by marketing disease" (BMJ 2012; 346:f3037)

 

 

As the 'flu' isn't necessary the 'flu', it isn't hard to understand why those that get a flu shot are 5.5 times more likely to get sick, as this study which tested the flu vax against a real saline placebo demonstrated.

 

 

 

                                                                Vaccinated          Placebo (saline)

 

Any seasonal influenza                                   58                      88

H1N1                                                             58                       0

Total Influenza Cases                                    116                     88

 

Noninfluenza Viruses

Rhinovirus (common cold)                              230                     59 

Coxsackie/Echovirus                                     160                      0

Other Respiratory Viruses                                97                     29 

Total Other Viruses                                        487                     88

 

 

So yep, the flu vaccine makes you sick.

 

 

 

 

I thought it very strange that there would be 58 cases of H1N1 cases in the vaccine group and none in the placebo group if they were at all evenly matched.  So I checked the actual numbers, and just to be clear, all these numbers are from taking the actual number of cases and doing the math to get the rate per 1000.  However, there were only 115 kids in the entire study, and there were 6 cases of flu total (half seasonal, half h1n1) for the 69 vaccinated kids and 3 total (all seasonal) for the 46 placebo kids.  If you look at the confidence intervals, there is at least a little overlap for all of them. 

 

The results are thought provoking and I find the hypothesis plausible.  I would absolutely like to see more research on this.  But this is one SMALL study that doesn't and can't show anything conclusively.  

post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Teacozy, the study you posted is from 14-15 years ago, and was directed by the CDC Epidemic Intelligence Service Officer, who is now the CDC's Associate Director of Adult Immunizations.

The study posted by Mirzam is much more recent, and the Hong researchers appear to be free of the conflict if interest shared by the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers. It also provides proof that
1) The flu shot does not prevent lab-confirmed influenza any better than placebo
2) the flu shot results in nearly 5 times the number of flu-like illnesses as placebo
3) the flu shot results in lowered ability to fight off other viral infections.

 

Hong Kong researchers appear to be free from conflict of interest you say?  Ok then.  Here is a randomized controlled study of over 700 children and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine since you say that the flu shot does not prevent influenza any better than the placebo. 

 

 

" Methods. One child aged 6–17 years in each of 796 households was randomized to receive 2009–2010 seasonal trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) or saline placebo between August 2009 and February 2010. 

Results. Receipt of TIV (trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine) led to 8–13-fold mean geometric rises in antibody titers against seasonal A and B viruses, but only 1.5-fold mean geometric rises against the pandemic A(H1N1) virus that was not included in the vaccine. Children who received TIV had a reduced risk of seasonal influenza B confirmed by RT-PCR, with a vaccine efficacy estimate of 66% (95% confidence interval [CI], 31%–83%). Children who received TIV also a had reduced risk of pandemic influenza A(H1N1) indicated by serology, with a vaccine efficacy estimate of 47% (95% CI, 15%–67%).

Conclusions. Seasonal TIV prevented pandemic influenza A(H1N1) and influenza B infections in children. " 

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/5/695.abstract?sid=5d9a580e-4748-467d-8d6c-886a18f6080b

 

Here is another study (not done in Hong Kong) with over 3,000 people that also shows that the flu vaccine does not cause other respiatory illnesses. 

 

"We investigated the association between influenza infection, vaccination, and detection of other respiratory viruses among children<5 years old and adults≥50 years old with acute respiratory illness who participated in seasonal studies of influenza vaccine effectiveness. Methods. Nasal/nasopharyngeal samples collected from 2004-2005 through 2009-2010 were tested for 19 respiratory virus targets using a multiplex reverse-transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) platform. Vaccination status was determined using a validated registry. 

Influenza was detected in 12% of 2010 children and 20% of 1738 adults. Non-influenza respiratory viruses were detected in 70% of children and 38% of adults without influenza. The proportion vaccinated did not vary between virus-positive controls and pan-negative controls in children (p=0.62) or adults (p=0.33).

Influenza vaccination was not associated with detection of non-influenza respiratory viruses. " 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23748138

post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I do live in one of the states where the flu vax is required for school- so it absolutely is an issue. It is not necessarily a problem for me since I don't do any vaccines, however it is a HUGE issue for people who don't want the flu vaccine for their children. I know plenty of people here who vaccinate on schedule, but have historically opted NOT to get the flu vaccine for their children. This is no longer an option.

 

 In for a penny, in for a pound.

post #28 of 28

To everyone posting - please keep your arguments about the topic and not about individuals. Edit your posts to remove the personal accusations. If you can't do that you will be removed from this discussion.

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