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Vaccine fearing mega church now tells members to vaccinate

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
http://mobile.rawstory.com/therawstory/#!/entry/vaccinefearing-texas-megachurch-urges-flock-to-immunize-after-measles-outbreak,52175e87da27f5d9d0104d59

A Texas mega church who had previously spoken out against vaccines saying they believed that the MMR caused autism and told its members to not trust doctors are now changing their tune. A measles outbreak has been linked to a member of their congregation and that person then infected 11 other people.

The members of the church are now lining up to get vaccinated.

Interesting how quickly they change their tune once they see the very real consequences of not vaccinating.
post #2 of 35
There can be very real consequences to vaccinating as well, and many have changed their tune after suffering them.

Did anyone die or have complications? I didn't see anything in the article about the dire consequences of these eleven folks who got the measles.
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
In another article it says 8 of the cases have recovered so far. Not sure what that means. Hundreds from the church have now been vaccinated.

The scary thing is that the youngest to get infected was only 4 months old and there were other infants that were infected and they now have an increased chance of getting SSPE which is fatal.

I would be on pins and needles for many many years if my baby got measles.
post #4 of 35

This just highlights how programmed and brainwashed society is today. Measles is really not the dreaded disease that MSM, the governement and its agencies and the vaccine manufacturers would like us to believe.

 

I intend to post this ad nauseum because it really is the truth, read what GPs in the UK in 1959 had to say about measles in the BMJ, they were not in the least bit concerned for their patients.Here is Dr John Fry:

 

 

 

In this practice measles is considered as a relatively mild and inevitable childhood ailment that is best encountered any time from 3 to 7 years of age. Over the past 10 years there have been few serious complications at any age, and all children have made complete recoveries. As a result of this reasoning no special attempts have been made at prevention even in young infants in whom the disease has not been found to be especially serious.

 

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/british-medical-journal-tells-us-measles-is-not-the-scary-disease-the-press-want-you-to-think-it-is/

 

Back in 1959, few four month old babies ever came down with measles, because they were protected by true herd immunity; their mothers passed on antibodies from natural infection, as nature intended.

post #5 of 35
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure what your definition of herd immunity is but this is the medical definition

": a reduction in the probability of infection that is held to apply to susceptible members of a population in which a significant proportion of the individuals are immune because the chance of coming in contact with an infected individual is less"

There was never any true herd immunity for measles until the vaccine. Nearly everyone still got measles! The fact that most adults were immune didn't stop kids from getting measles year after year after year.

Very similar to chicken pox. Just because most people were naturally immune didnt stop the next batch of kids that weren't immune from getting it from the previous group. It's a vicious cycle.

I still don't have my laptop so I'm not sure if I am explaining this well.
post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

I'm not sure what your definition of herd immunity is but this is the medical definition

": a reduction in the probability of infection that is held to apply to susceptible members of a population in which a significant proportion of the individuals are immune because the chance of coming in contact with an infected individual is less"

There was never any true herd immunity for measles until the vaccine. Nearly everyone still got measles! The fact that most adults were immune didn't stop kids from getting measles year after year after year.

Very similar to chicken pox. Just because most people were naturally immune didnt stop the next batch of kids that weren't immune from getting it from the previous group. It's a vicious cycle.

I still don't have my laptop so I'm not sure if I am explaining this well.

LL

post #7 of 35
Thread Starter 
If most people are still getting a disease that's not a herd immunity.

I can't post a picture from my device but here is a link of what herd immunity is.






http://www.decodedscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/herd-immunity.gif
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

I'm not sure what your definition of herd immunity is but this is the medical definition

": a reduction in the probability of infection that is held to apply to susceptible members of a population in which a significant proportion of the individuals are immune because the chance of coming in contact with an infected individual is less"

There was never any true herd immunity for measles until the vaccine. Nearly everyone still got measles! The fact that most adults were immune didn't stop kids from getting measles year after year after year.

Very similar to chicken pox. Just because most people were naturally immune didnt stop the next batch of kids that weren't immune from getting it from the previous group. It's a vicious cycle.

 

You are explaining it well enough.

 

I think an important part you are leaving out is that if most mothers had measles and breastfed they would pass on some immunity to their babies through birth and then breastmilk.  As such, it was fairly uncommon for infants to get such things as measles.  Less babies were in daycare and older children might have been mildly quarantined with measles - both of which cut down on the chances of transmitting measles to an infant.  This is just speculation - although there is a thread here from the past few months that clearly shows measles was most common in 3-9 years in the prevaccine era, and that (sadly) this has changed in the post vaccination era to babies, teens, and older adults.  

post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

If most people are still getting a disease that's not a herd immunity.


 

Cool.  So no flame throwing is allowed over choices not to vaccinate for pertussis or flu is henceforth allowed.  orngtongue.gif

post #10 of 35
Thread Starter 
Can't copy and paste. So sorry if there is any confusion.

Do 90+% of babies get whooping cough? Ok then. So the vaccine is helping with herd immunity. Even getting whooping cough naturally does not provide lifelong immunity.

I've said before that the WC vaccine could be better. No one disagrees with that. But 60 percent effective is not 0 percent effective. It still helps and makes cases less severe if you do get it.

The flu is also not comparable to measles since the flu strand is different every year. Getting the flu naturally doesn't give you immunity either. The flu vaccine does help though.

As far as measles, breast milk only gives some immunity and not for very long. I don't think there's been a single death from measles in the US in over 20 years. Whatever benefit to getting the measles naturally there may be is vastly outweighed by the risks of the disease. Thousands would have died in the same 20 years if there had not been a vaccine.
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post


As far as measles, breast milk only gives some immunity and not for very long. I don't think there's been a single death from measles in the US in over 20 years. Whatever benefit to getting the measles naturally there may be is vastly outweighed by the risks of the disease. Thousands would have died in the same 20 years if there had not been a vaccine.

The above is pure speculation, based on revisionist history, you cannot possibly state that as fact.

post #12 of 35
My LOs have been nursing for upwards of 3 years each. I don't believe the Formula sponsored nonsense that they only benefited from antibodies in my milk for the first 6 months. Children benefit from their mother's antibodies as long as they nurse.
post #13 of 35

I have very mixed feelings when people or institutions do a complete 180 on a topic.  I don't see it much in real life, and when it happens I tend to think they were not that firm in their convictions in the first place.  Oh, people do move on issues, but usually slowly unless something drastic happens to them personally.

 

 

That being said, I am not quite sure that is what happened with this church. The article is not as clear as I would like.

 

The father of the current pastor did not believe in vaccines, but it seems the current pastor is not so hard core.

 

"In a statement on the church website, Pearsons also insisted that she did not share her fathers fear of autism.

“Some people think I am against immunizations, but that is not true,” the statement said. “Vaccinations help cut the mortality rate enormously. I believe it is wrong to be against vaccinations. The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time. There is no indication of the autism connection with vaccinations in older children."

So, I am not sure the church did flip-flop.  There is adifference from being completely non-vax and preaching caution.  

Furthermore, the church is also recommending people who do not want to be vaccinated quarantine themselves at home for the next two weeks (perhaps everyone should - vaccines can take 2 weeks to kick in).  Quarantine is a viable option for some in an outbreak.  

 

 

post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

The members of the church are now lining up to get vaccinated.

Interesting how quickly they change their tune once they see the very real consequences of not vaccinating.

Yes, and?

 

I think it is very reasonable to vaccinate (if you want to vaccinate at all) in the presence of an actual threat.  

post #15 of 35
Churches do have a a legal dimension too. I am not in love with his statement, but I often think Pastors speak from personal opinion where they should turn to Scripture.
post #16 of 35
His 'no evidence' bit is really cringeworthy; what about AI arthritis in older female children? Plenty of evidence 4 that. I think Vaxes have a religious dimension, obviously, but I don't think Pastors should really delve into the scientific fray in public statements . . .
post #17 of 35
Ive always found this herd immunity concept hard to accept because most adults in the communities are rarely up to date with all the vaccinations. Very pro vax adults may take time out to get boosters right on the schedule but average joe and janes do not. This means most of us have "lost" whatever antibodies we had from our childhood vaxes. Only ones who are completely on schedule are the vaxing children and they certainly are not the majority of population. So in theory, it is impossible to attain successful herd immunity unless every adult too is fully vaccinated right on the schedule.
Edited by ParadigmShift - 8/23/13 at 1:35pm
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmShift View Post

 So in theory, it is impossible to attain successful herd immunity unless every adult too is fully vaccinated right on the schedule.

This is probably their ultimate goal.

post #19 of 35
Oh & YIKES! Thimerisol & MMR? A 'new' MMR?

I wonder why, now when a baby dies from a mother refusing induction, we won't hunt down every reporter that suggested there was a link? What about when a woman refuses to have a baby with her old husband or when a mother turns down antidepressant therapy in pregnancy? My point is that it is socially acceptable to attribute autism to *aNYthINg* these days, except . . .
Edited by dinahx - 8/23/13 at 2:17pm
post #20 of 35
I just find it strange when provax advocates stress the importance of herd immunity and how paramount it is to public health. The reality is we have NEVER had complete herd immunity in the history of vaccines. Does this mean vaxed school children were the ones who shielded me from getting polio and measles etc etc? It simply does not make sense. Why arent more adults coming down with diseases since the immunity ran out years ago? Just begs the question what is keeping ME from coming down with disease when i interact with any adults who might be infecting the population..or am i going around infecting people and dont know it? I mean seriously all adults must be contracting something since most of us havent been vaxed in eons.
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