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Vaccine fearing mega church now tells members to vaccinate - Page 2

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

This just highlights how programmed and brainwashed society is today. Measles is really not the dreaded disease that MSM, the governement and its agencies and the vaccine manufacturers would like us to believe.

I intend to post this ad nauseum because it really is the truth, read what GPs in the UK in 1959 had to say about measles in the BMJ, they were not in the least bit concerned for their patients.Here is Dr John Fry:



.

That's what a single GP (in a small country practice) said in 1959. In the UK there were 98 deaths from measles that year. Not a huge amount I admit, but I bet the parents of those children who died didn't dismiss measles as nothing. I think dismissing the risks from measles is as bad if not worse than claiming there's no risk at all from vaccinating.

You can also read about Roald Dahl's opinion of measles afterbhis daughter died age 7 of complications caused by measles: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/7930637/Roald-Dahls-secret-notebook-reveals-heartbreak-over-daughters-death.html

Sure it can be a mild illness - it can also cause death.

Most people have no reaction to vaccines even while serious reactions can occur rarely.

Dismissing either risk is unhelpful.
post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post


That's what a single GP (in a small country practice) said in 1959. In the UK there were 98 deaths from measles that year. Not a huge amount I admit, but I bet the parents of those children who died didn't dismiss measles as nothing. I think dismissing the risks from measles is as bad if not worse than claiming there's no risk at all from vaccinating.

You can also read about Roald Dahl's opinion of measles afterbhis daughter died age 7 of complications caused by measles: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/7930637/Roald-Dahls-secret-notebook-reveals-heartbreak-over-daughters-death.html

Sure it can be a mild illness - it can also cause death.

Most people have no reaction to vaccines even while serious reactions can occur rarely.

Dismissing either risk is unhelpful.

So is vastly over playing it. There were reports from several GPs from various parts of the country in the BMJ article, and all of them said pretty much the same thing, measles was not a big worry. I can assure you that Beckenham was no exception to the rule.

post #23 of 35
Thread Starter 
I'm sure Angelina's parents don't think it's a mild disease either. She contracted measles from an unvaccinated teenager when she was 7 months old and died from SSPE 5 years later.

"In February of this year, we noticed significant abnormalities in our daughter. She often fell off the bike and had veritable speech impediment. When these reactions became more and more drastic, we went to the clinic. The diagnosis of SSPE came as a shock to us. Within only 8 weeks our child became an invalid. She can neither walk nor talk and, meanwhile has to be fed artificially. Actually she was supposed to start school this year. This terrible blow has been very difficult for all of us "

In addition recent data may show that contracting measles before the ago of 1 may give you as high as a 1 in 200 chance of getting SSPE


"The special aspect about these two cases is that the infections occurred within the period after the introduction of duty of notification for infectious diseases in Germany in 2001. For the whole year of 2006, 313 measles infections in the first year of life were reported to the RKI. And from these infections two SSPE cases have already developed. Even if it is assumed that in 2006 there were also a number of unreported cases, we must now assume that the risk of SSPE after an infection in the first year of life is much higher than we previously thought”. And there are also other indications of the incidence of SSPE in Germany. For example, 27 cases of death resulting from a diagnosis of SSPE were recorded by the Federal Statistical Office from 2005 to 2010. And even with another child who had been infected in 2006 at the age of 5 months with measles, a rapid-onset form of SSPE was diagnosed. The child died in the spring of 2007. With reference to the outbreak in Germany in 2006, we must now assume an incidence of at least 1:200. In plain English: the risk of death for infants who become infected with measles in their first year of life, is very high, due to the late sequelae of this disease. However, according to approvals governing the use of vaccines in Germany, children can be vaccinated only as of the age of 11 months."


http://ecpcp.eu/news/singleview/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=55
post #24 of 35
Basically, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. In rare cases, complications and/or death can occur from measles. The general consensus is that serious vaccine reactions, including debilitating conditions and/or death can occur. So, which "side" is "evil" for wanting to protect their children? Both sides have merit.

The only thing that is wrong to me is when someone tries to tell me that I MUST vaccinate, that I'm evil and stupid and selfish if I don't, yada yada. The reason I choose not to is because preventing vaccine reaction is something I can control. I can take responsibility for it. It's a decision I can make.

I will not berate someone else for their decisions. But I'll be damned if I'm made to feel ignorant, kookie, or gullible because I choose not to vaccinate for the sake of my children's health.
post #25 of 35
Teacozy do you need me to post a lnk to baby Ian's webpage as an illustration on how vaccines kill?
post #26 of 35

I may be going off a bit tangent here but I just had another thought. The medical community mantra is " There will be an  epidemic of (fill in the blank) if we don't vax". Okay, so going from that premise, everyone assumes  they mean children, babies and adolescents. So..why are adult population left out or rather left alone (other than the incessant flu vaccine push) when THEY are the ones that can infect newborns? Think about it. Babies are not born with polio/measles/mumps/whooping cough etc etc. They get infected from someone born before them, which includes a huge population of adults. If vaccine theory holds true, shouldn't ALL adults get vaxed?  Also following with this line of thought, since most adults are not up to date, shouldn't we be going through epidemics of massive proportion all the time? From my memory of recent events, "epidemic" was the h1n1  flu right? Where are the old school disease epidemics of massive proportions? Like 1000000000 new polio cases among adults who are not following vax schedule.  Is it truly feasible to think vaxed children are our main line of defense? I seem to repeat this over again but it simply makes no sense to me.

 

So to sum up:

1. Most adults are not up to date on vaxes

2. Babies are born and susceptible to disease carrying non updated adults

3. Although adults,  despite not updating their shots, seems to evade or recover from old school diseases pretty damn well for most parts

4. However children must be vaxed on schedule to "save lives" (again...a really ambiguous term CDC/WHO/medical community likes to repeat again and again)

 

Conclusion: Something is rotten in Denmark

 

Bah. More holes than your regular soap storylines

 

If I have gotten any facts or assumptions wrong please correct my errors. I tend to be more of a logic/analytical thinker, rather than theorizing with help of abstracts/studies. I leave that to all of your very capable hands. :)

post #27 of 35
You make some great points, Paradigmshift.

What bothers me about this article is not that people went to get vaccines. It's not the actual story. It's the tone of the article that is seen so often and is offensive. It's goal is clearly to divide, to create anger, and to paint those that don't vaccinate as ignorant and gullible fanatics. Yes, there are people who do not vaccinate for religious reasons, but that's what they believe and it is their choice. Not everyone who doesn't vax does so for religious reasons. This article does more than just mock "anti-vaxers" (I hate that term), it mocks the religious as well. It's sole purpose is to mock. It doesn't really even give any information.

Posting it also serves to mock. Show me some facts. Talk to me like an intelligent person. Then we can have a discussion. But come at me with stuff like this and I know that the intent is to make me react, not open my eyes to anything worthwhile.
post #28 of 35
I don't normally care for sites like this, but I'll make an exception for this article that corrects some misinformation surrounding this case.

I don't agree with the entire article, but it has some interesting info on the Copeland case.

Remember that to the fanatics, questioning so much as 1 dose of 1 vaccine can get you labeled "anti-vaccination."

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/six-lies-mainstream-media-is-printing-about-kenneth-copeland-church-and-measles-outbreak-heres-the-truth/
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmShift View Post
 

. So..why are adult population left out or rather left alone (other than the incessant flu vaccine push) when THEY are the ones that can infect newborns? Think about it. Babies are not born with polio/measles/mumps/whooping cough etc etc. They get infected from someone born before them, which includes a huge population of adults. If vaccine theory holds true, shouldn't ALL adults get vaxed?  Also following with this line of thought, since most adults are not up to date, shouldn't we be going through epidemics of massive proportion all the time? From my memory of recent events, "epidemic" was the h1n1  flu right? Where are the old school disease epidemics of massive proportions? Like 1000000000 new polio cases among adults who are not following vax schedule.  Is it truly feasible to think vaxed children are our main line of defense? I seem to repeat this over again but it simply makes no sense to me.

 

 

 

 

But most adults are following the vaccination schedule for polio.  The schedule says to get vaccinated for it as a child, which most adults were.  The polio vaccine is believed to give long term to lifelong immunity.  If at some point this turns out to be untrue and they start finding a decent portion of adults without polio immunity, or worse, adults with polio, I'm sure they will try and get adults to get a booster then.  Right now though, polio is not on the adult schedule for people who were vaccinated as children. 

 

Same with measles. Most adults either are old enough to have had measles or have had at least one shot.  A second shot is advised for those who only had one as a child, but most people who don't get it are still protected by the first anyway.

 

Currently mumps is not on the schedule either for people who were vaccinated as children.  However, outbreaks in college age populations may indicate that the vaccination is not as effective or long lasting as originally thought, so if there continue to be problems, perhaps someday they will add a mumps booster for that age or adults.  We'll see what happens. 

 

Pertussis immunity does not last nearly as long as other vaccine, and they do push  for adults to get a booster, especially adults who will be around children.  That many adults still don't get it could contribute to spreading pertussis, however, there seem to be problems with the pertussis vaccine that are doing far more to cause outbreak right now.  

 

For most adults who were vaccinated as a child and had chickenpox, the only scheduled vaccines are tetanus (not contagious), flu, diptheria (could be an issue, but it is nearly eradicated and doesn't spread as quickly as other diseases), and pertussis.  The elderly are also supposed to get shingle and pneumonia vaccine (for their own protection).  

post #30 of 35

Thanks for summarizing that so concisely pers. I'd been wondering about these claims that adults are really undervaccinated, and wanted to remind myself what is recommended in terms of boosters. So helpful that you just did it for us - and I'm reassured to see that it's not a big issue (as I suspected). 

 

Should look up when I last got a tetanus booster though.... I think I might be due that one soon! ;) 

post #31 of 35
Pers, lemme check the "immunity" duration for the vaccine schedule you have listed and if there are any contrary facts I wil list them here later. The only thing I can think of right off the bat is this - Why are boosters needed if certain vaxes give lifetime immunity after one shot?
post #32 of 35

 

Here is a list of adult vaccination rates.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6104a2.htm

 

The stats cover those who are in the recommended ages for HPV, Tdap or Td, HPV, the Heps, pneumococcal  and shingles.  Tetanus has the highest compliance at highest at 63.4% while Hep A came in at 10.7 %.  So, yeah, adults are undervaxxed per recommendations.  

post #33 of 35

I have been googling like mad but I cannot find one single place that lists vaccine dosage along with immunity duration for the old school vaccines. I did find separate sites that lists certain vaccines with some info but I am not sure how accurate they are. If anyone can point me to a link that would be great.

post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

Here is a list of adult vaccination rates.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6104a2.htm

 

The stats cover those who are in the recommended ages for HPV, Tdap or Td, HPV, the Heps, pneumococcal  and shingles.  Tetanus has the highest compliance at highest at 63.4% while Hep A came in at 10.7 %.  So, yeah, adults are undervaxxed per recommendations.  

 

Yes, adults are behind on vaccines, but the original question was why there isn't a greater push for vaccination of adults to protect babies and why the old school diseases aren't coming back since adults aren't getting their vaxes.  Most of the vaxes listed above are fairly new.  Shingles and pneumo are given to the elderly to protect them from disease, not out of concern of them spreading it to others/infants.  HPV vaccine is not given to babies.  Hepatitis A isn't on the schedule for all adults - I'm not sure of the logic of vaccinating all children in the US for hepatitis while only vaccinating adults with risk factors.  Pertussis and   diptheria I already mentioned.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmShift View Post

Pers, lemme check the "immunity" duration for the vaccine schedule you have listed and if there are any contrary facts I wil list them here later. The only thing I can think of right off the bat is this - Why are boosters needed if certain vaxes give lifetime immunity after one shot?
 

Tetanus, diptheria, and pertussis boosters are given because they do not provide lifelong immunity.  Hepatitis B also wanes, but there is no booster recommended for it, I think this is because it is primarily intended to protect against severe and chronic hepatitis, and people who were vaccinated may become susceptible to hepatitis B twenty or so years later, but they still have some protection so it doesn't develop into severe/chronic disease. 

 

With polio and the MMR diseases, it is not about compensating for waning immunity, but about building immunity in the first place. With measles especially, they didn't add a second shot because immunity was found to be waning, but because some kids did not respond to the first shot and so were never immune. After two shots, nearly everyone is immune. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmShift View Post
 

I have been googling like mad but I cannot find one single place that lists vaccine dosage along with immunity duration for the old school vaccines. I did find separate sites that lists certain vaccines with some info but I am not sure how accurate they are. If anyone can point me to a link that would be great.

 

 

Try the CDC Pink Book for duration of immunity.  Measles and rubela are both currently thought to give lifelong immunity. Mumps is "believed to be greater than 25 years, and is probably lifelong in most vaccine recipients."   Oral polio vaccine (which is what most of us adults would have had) is thought to give lifelong immunity.  In 2000 they quit using oral polio vaccine, so kids today only get IPV, the duration of which is thought to be long but not actually known, so we will see what happens with that one.  

post #35 of 35

Pers, I wasn't arguing with you.

 

PSM said this:

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
 

Thanks for summarizing that so concisely pers. I'd been wondering about these claims that adults are really undervaccinated, and wanted to remind myself what is recommended in terms of boosters. So helpful that you just did it for us - and I'm reassured to see that it's not a big issue (as I suspected). 

 

  

 

The link I posted shows adults are undervaxxed according to the CDC schedule for adults.  


Edited by kathymuggle - 9/6/13 at 6:13am
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