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Let's go over this again, what's wrong with time outs? - Page 2

post #21 of 122

I don't think there's anything wrong with timeouts either.  

 

I don't use them.  It's not effective here.  But, for some, it might work.

 

For many parents, it's the best way for THEM to deal with a frustrating situation.  I'm very well trained in early childhood, and even *I* get mad and need to walk away.  

 

Sometimes, the timeout is for the caregiver to regroup, and not for the child to "think about what you did", because honestly, NOBODY sits there thinking about what they did.  Not even an adult would go sit in a cubicle to "think about what they did".  Your boss would make you fix what you did, not have you think about it.  So, having the child fix the problem is more productive, unless the adult is very angry...then a time out is awesome.  

post #22 of 122

   Time out's work great for us.  When my kid gets to the point of being irrational, I tell him to go up to his room so that he can calm down and he can come back when he is ready.  Mostly he comes down in a few minutes and apologises and we talk it out.  Sometimes I go up to his room and he will be quietly playing with toys and we talk it out.  And then we go on as usual. 

 

Also, it's not me yelling "TIME OUT!  Get to your room!"  It's "ok, you need to calm down a bit, why don't you go upstairs?"  I don't think of it as punishing him.  It's helping him when he really needs it.

 

I sneak up to my room with a coffee and a snack every afternoon.  Time out!

post #23 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post

I don't think there's anything wrong with timeouts either.  

 

I don't use them.  It's not effective here.  But, for some, it might work.

 

For many parents, it's the best way for THEM to deal with a frustrating situation.  I'm very well trained in early childhood, and even *I* get mad and need to walk away.  

 

Sometimes, the timeout is for the caregiver to regroup, and not for the child to "think about what you did", because honestly, NOBODY sits there thinking about what they did.  Not even an adult would go sit in a cubicle to "think about what they did".  Your boss would make you fix what you did, not have you think about it.  So, having the child fix the problem is more productive, unless the adult is very angry...then a time out is awesome.  

 

So true about the "think of what you did".  I remember being told that and my only thoughts were RAGE!!!!

post #24 of 122

We use time outs, I guess, and I think they work well. But for us its not about punishment or sitting on a step for x minutes or anything. Its about learning to recognise in yourself when you need to step away, regain composure and breathe. I normally tell my kids to go to their rooms for ten minutes and calm down. My kids like their rooms, so tbh its worse for the sibling they share a room with really who sometimes I have to ask to come out of the room. Or I might send them to my room with a book. Its more about restarting the situation than a punishment. OTOH its not optional.

 

You need to parent the kids you have. I have kids who easily tend toward the wild and hyper, who get worked up and then people get hurt. When they are whirling round, lost in the game, they are not actually listening to me and in ten years of parenting I haven't worked out how to get them to snap out of it except by sending them off to calm down. I have a smallish house. Sometimes everyone needs to chill. Sometimes, when someone is hurt, feelings are running high and everyone needs to separate and calm. I've usually found things are much better after a separation, everyone is calmer and happier. In practice, the most I'm saying is that if you persist in hurting people or being mean, if you really cannot make yourself stop, then you will be asked to take yourself away.

 

Bear in mind that I am talking about a 10 year old and an 8 year old really here. There gets to be a point with kids that age where I think its helpful just to have clear rules and boundaries and they can work out for themselves how to keep themselves within them. I do actually feel it reasonable that if a 10 year old can't stop calling people an idiot, he removes himself. 

 

My experience is not that kids experience time outs as being sent away or as rejection. Maybe if you lived in a huge house, but honestly you normally can't get that far from each other anyway. When I was a kid and we had time outs at school, or was sent to my room, I don't ever remember thinking my parents didn't love me or that my teachers hated me. Sometimes I felt that the punishment had been misapplied (I had a textbook irritating dob-you-in little brother-now one of my best friends). But I didn't feel unloved. Sometimes kids are extremely annoying-mine are anyway-and you are at the end of your rope and sending them off to cool down really can be the least bad option, IME.

post #25 of 122
Thats
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoumel View Post

NEVER ONCE did "time out" with either of my boys now grown.  I spoke to them respectfully always, treated them with dignity, expected a lot and they brought a lot.  I've seen "mothers" slap a child's hand as they sit in the seat of the cart of the market because the child wants to Touch something.  Children are information gatherers.  So often, I see and hear the results of "parents" bringing small children into stores inappropriately and then having completely inappropriate expectations of them while there.  Then, they hurt the child I assume.....to show who's boss, although THEY were the ones who brought the child there in the first place.  

Nope, no time outs - no discipline except for talking about things with them or showing them what was safe, what was kind and respectful.

I have a beautiful corporate jet pilot, 29  and a highly gifted touring musician, 24.
[/qThat's great that what you did worked out so well for you, but you aren't me and you don't parent my little one so I think it's hard to say that there is a one size fits all. I agree that for myself, this is the least punitive and most respectful way for all of us and I feel great about that. I am installing into my child ways to deal with her emotions in a respectful way for all involved.
post #26 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesje Mills View Post

 SO... I am using the policy my folks used on me: "ground" the material objects.  The wii's been grounded/off limits, the crayons often go on a high shelf, and i really look forward to grounding the car when they get older!  (this works particularly well when you live out of town!)  There is plenty to do and the less they have the more they seem to appreciate the world.   shrug.gif

 

Yes, I occasionally put a toy in a temporary time out.  This usually comes after several requests and warnings -- e.g., please don't throw that toy car up in the air,  in the house, next to the glass doors, you could break the doors, or the car, and either way one of us will be sad.  Sweetheart, I know it is exciting that you just figured out that you can throw it that high, but this is not the place for throwing, and cars are not the best thing to throw (because I know you'll be very upset if you break that car). why don't you go outside and find something you can throw?  A ball, or a frisbee, or even one of the lighter, plastic cars that won't hurt anyone and isn't likely to break? I can help you find something.  Ahem, I see that you are now trying to be sneaky by hiding behind the chair, but guess what? Mommy can still see the car catapulting through the air, dangerously close to the glass doors.  Please stop, I'm asking nicely.  If you don't cooperate, that car might have to go on time out. Oh, the car is making you throw it in the air?  I see.  Have you explained to the car that it could get hurt or that it could break the doors?  Try explaining that, and while you are at it, tell the car that it will have to go on time out if it insists on flying through the air in the dining room.  Remind it that it is a car, not an airplane. 

 

Car goes sailing by . .. . and I catch it.

 

O.K., that car is going on time out.  Why don't you and I go outside?

post #27 of 122

This thread is very interesting an I appreciate BOTH sides of the coin.  I have a generally very good natured 3yo boy and time outs have worked well for us this past year.  He is warned that he will get a time out for continuing to behave in a way that is hurtful or dangerous, and if he proceeds he gets a time out...2 minutes at the bottom of the stairs...I tell him what he did wrong, I ask him to say he is sorry, we hug...over...great.  Well not so much anymore, lately he is fighting the time outs and working on the "testing".  He won't stay put, and will run and hide...he also wont do what we ask, brushing teeth and getting ready for bed was the issue last night.  I would be very interested in OTHER strategies.  Some mention they treat their kids with kindness and compassion and expect a lot...what does that mean when you have a 3 year old screaming no in your face and running away?  I have been trying to take away "privileges", like books before bed, screen time, treats, but he doesn't seem to care in the moment.

 

Last night I gave up on the time out, and put him in bed lights out without even trying to brush his teeth.  He exploded into tears and said he was sorry right away, we went in and brushed his teeth read some books and all was fine, though 30 minutes later than bedtime should have been. I felt bad though.  Reasoning with a 3 year old is a real challenge sometimes.  I do try to keep my cool, but admit sometimes I raise my voice.

 

If anyone could provide specific examples of how you would handle a child who won't stay in time outs I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks to all!

post #28 of 122
DCMama - I'm a big fan of the book the Secret of Parenting by Anthony Wolf. It's really all about how you actually have the power to get your kids to do what you need them to do with, really, just your will alone.

Example: Me: "OK, it's time to brush out teeth."
Kid: "NO!" runs away
Me: Deep breath/sigh. Walks after kid and stands there staring at them with the raised eyebrow look. And, I stare and stare and stare. I say nothing.
Kid: Ranting or sulking or whatever... "I don't want to... "
Me: "I know you don't want to brush your teeth. I know you want the day to be over. I know you want to .... " It's great if they'll get in your lap at this point for a hug, but sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. No big deal either way. "I wish we could just play and play and play all day. I wish I could just sit here all day with you in my lap."
Kid: Sob/sigh/whine/complain.
Me: "I know honey. Let's get our teeth brushed real fast so we have more time to read books."

I'm telling you it works.
post #29 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirojodi View Post

We have absolutely no problems with time-outs in our house.  If you choose to act in a manner which makes you difficult to be around and/or is unacceptable for our family, you are asked to remove yourself until you can be pleasant, nice, and a pleasure to be around.  This rule applies to kids and adults alike and the time of the time out is determined by the person getting the time out.  When the kids are calm, in control of themselves and their emotions and ready to by nice to be around, they are permitted to leave their rooms and rejoin the family.  That may take 2 minutes or it make take 2 hours.  It depends on the situation.  They need to understand that certain behavior is intolerable (both in our family in society as a whole) and no one wants to be around someone who is miserable, or mean, or defiant, or disobedient.


Yep, we did something similar here with our kids. Bad choices and negative attitudes can affect everyone in the family. Why subject yourself and the other siblings to that?
post #30 of 122
It's pretty clear that "time out" can take on vastly different meanings. I honestly had no idea in my son's toddler years how on earth anyone was able to get a kid into time out. Mine certainly would escalate immediately with any sort of isolation or being made to sit still in a chair to cool off. I didn't have any realization that a time-out was a real option.

What I see now is that moving to a quiet place with a calm and caring parent is a potentially very helpful tool. I've learned so much over the past few years about anger management and nonviolent communication that had honestly never been presented to me prior to parenting. Sure, I would instinctually huff off by myself if I was really upset, it didn't occur to me to model and teach that (in a non-huffy way) to my son. We get it now, though. If there's conflict over space we model asking for space or moving elsewhere to get space from others.

I feel that time out is useless and potentially harmful when used as a punishment, but see lots of value in learning to express and respect boundaries (need for space) to avoid heated conflict or lessen it. I just wish I'd know to model and implement it sooner- for self and kids. Now to learn how to accept and/or change behaviors without taking away privileges. It's really hard to be and allow kids to be autonomous and learn from life in a way that is peaceful and empathetic to everyone. We're all learning every day. smile.gif
post #31 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

DCMama - I'm a big fan of the book the Secret of Parenting by Anthony Wolf. It's really all about how you actually have the power to get your kids to do what you need them to do with, really, just your will alone.

Example: Me: "OK, it's time to brush out teeth."
Kid: "NO!" runs away
Me: Deep breath/sigh. Walks after kid and stands there staring at them with the raised eyebrow look. And, I stare and stare and stare. I say nothing.
Kid: Ranting or sulking or whatever... "I don't want to... "
Me: "I know you don't want to brush your teeth. I know you want the day to be over. I know you want to .... " It's great if they'll get in your lap at this point for a hug, but sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. No big deal either way. "I wish we could just play and play and play all day. I wish I could just sit here all day with you in my lap."
Kid: Sob/sigh/whine/complain.
Me: "I know honey. Let's get our teeth brushed real fast so we have more time to read books."

I'm telling you it works.

That's a nice idea and I do believe you, I'm sure it works for your kids and who knows, maybe it would for my little girl,  too.  I just don't like to lie as a mom and I would be totally lying if I said I wished we could just sit there all day with her in my lap.  I like to hold her, don't get me wrong, but I all day?  Nope, I have other things I like to do in the day, too.  It really doesn't feel true to me to sympathize in that way, I don't really vibe with it.  Some things just need to get done, I am not really one to bemoan the fundamental things that are non-negotiable. 

 

I do remind her that the faster she gets it done then the more time we have for books, so we do agree on that :-)

post #32 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCGreenMamma View Post

This thread is very interesting an I appreciate BOTH sides of the coin.  I have a generally very good natured 3yo boy and time outs have worked well for us this past year.  He is warned that he will get a time out for continuing to behave in a way that is hurtful or dangerous, and if he proceeds he gets a time out...2 minutes at the bottom of the stairs...I tell him what he did wrong, I ask him to say he is sorry, we hug...over...great.  Well not so much anymore, lately he is fighting the time outs and working on the "testing".  He won't stay put, and will run and hide...he also wont do what we ask, brushing teeth and getting ready for bed was the issue last night.  I would be very interested in OTHER strategies.  Some mention they treat their kids with kindness and compassion and expect a lot...what does that mean when you have a 3 year old screaming no in your face and running away?  I have been trying to take away "privileges", like books before bed, screen time, treats, but he doesn't seem to care in the moment.

 

Last night I gave up on the time out, and put him in bed lights out without even trying to brush his teeth.  He exploded into tears and said he was sorry right away, we went in and brushed his teeth read some books and all was fine, though 30 minutes later than bedtime should have been. I felt bad though.  Reasoning with a 3 year old is a real challenge sometimes.  I do try to keep my cool, but admit sometimes I raise my voice.

 

If anyone could provide specific examples of how you would handle a child who won't stay in time outs I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks to all!

I know you asked for other ideas and hopefully you will get some.  But I want to mention that I went through that with my little girl, three was the. hardest. age. period.  But I think the testing is all about seeing if those boundaries are going to remain.  "How about now?  But what if I do this?  Now?  How bout now?"  So sticking with it through the rough part, even when you can't see it working is really just setting the stage for better self control and understanding of the rules and what is expected in the future.  Does that make sense?

 

And also, to me, it sounds like you got through to him by putting him to bed with the lights out.  I def. believe that just as much we as parents need to consider our kiddos feelings, we also need to help them understand ours.  His behavior is frustrating to you and you conveyed that to him.  Of course he can't be expected to control his impulses very well at his age, but again, it's laying a foundation, it's all about balance. 

post #33 of 122
Daupinette- that's just my dialogue with my child. You would insert your dialogue on what you would want to do all day. "I wish we could go to Disneyland and run around all day". Or whatever.

The point is to recognize your child's feelings with no conditions. And then move on to what has to be done. It's like if you said "I'm so angry at my boss!" It's no help for me to say, "We'll too bad, you have to go to work! Something's need to get done and work is non negotiable!" That's not helpful. You already know that. You're just venting and looking for a sympathetic ear. It's more helpful for me to say, "you had a bad day at work, huh?"

We know this as adults talking to adults, but for some reason we don't apply it to our children. There's another great book called How to talk so children will listen and listen so children will talk.
post #34 of 122
I love hearing from both sides of this spectrum and Ill go so far as to say all of us mamas rock in our roles bc we are considering and HAVING this conversation! Go us!! smile.gif. I've read the Elaine Faber (sp?) book and am down w it, but, at the end of the day I feel like its ok to have certain expectations of my 2 yo...IN REASON! She's actually pretty good about doing what needs to be done (I.e. tooth brushing, butt wipes after poop, running to grab a towel if she spills something) but of course she's a kid and has an opportunity to bitch, if she chooses, when the occasional thing that needs to get done has to get done. I validate her to an extent, but I'm very much of the, sorry charlie, this is what needs to go down right now, I hear ya, but ... As humans, there are things that have to get done even if we occasionally don't want to do them..perhaps when she's older and able to reason ill embark on open dialogue concerning what she's feeling about having to get ...done and why she's choosing to be obstinate but, again, I don't really feel like I'm asking a ton to have expectations w my kiddo. Her life is totally full of awesomeness and joy and getting her needs fully met so I'm ok with my expecting her to do a few things that need to get done, even when she occasionally wants to do otherwise:)
post #35 of 122

anachka, I love the Faber and Maslich book (sure that's spelt wrong!) but I don't think that anything in that book precludes having expectations of your kids. I think Xerxella's post really sums it up well. You can totally have expectations of your kids-I do of mine, but at the same time you can listen to and validate their feelings. I listen to my kids, but it doesn't mean my boundaries move, unless my kids do manage to convince me I'm wrong. 

 

Actually the main issue I have with the book is something else. I think sometimes we have to stop complaining and get on with stuff. I think its possible to get into too much talking around a thing, and I think over thinking can paralyse us into inaction. I think its a fine, fine line between talking something out and getting it off our chests and talking round and round in circles, getting more and more worried. I also think its not good for anyone, kids included, to get into the habit of endless complaining and moaning and I think that that could be a possible outcome of using the book. We know our own kids though and we know what works and what they need. 

post #36 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

Daupinette- that's just my dialogue with my child. You would insert your dialogue on what you would want to do all day. "I wish we could go to Disneyland and run around all day". Or whatever.

The point is to recognize your child's feelings with no conditions. And then move on to what has to be done. It's like if you said "I'm so angry at my boss!" It's no help for me to say, "We'll too bad, you have to go to work! Something's need to get done and work is non negotiable!" That's not helpful. You already know that. You're just venting and looking for a sympathetic ear. It's more helpful for me to say, "you had a bad day at work, huh?"

We know this as adults talking to adults, but for some reason we don't apply it to our children. There's another great book called How to talk so children will listen and listen so children will talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

Daupinette- that's just my dialogue with my child. You would insert your dialogue on what you would want to do all day. "I wish we could go to Disneyland and run around all day". Or whatever.

The point is to recognize your child's feelings with no conditions. And then move on to what has to be done. It's like if you said "I'm so angry at my boss!" It's no help for me to say, "We'll too bad, you have to go to work! Something's need to get done and work is non negotiable!" That's not helpful. You already know that. You're just venting and looking for a sympathetic ear. It's more helpful for me to say, "you had a bad day at work, huh?"

We know this as adults talking to adults, but for some reason we don't apply it to our children. There's another great book called How to talk so children will listen and listen so children will talk.
That's actually the thing, kids don't have the life experience to know that it needs to get done.
Anyway, I am actually very secure and happy with haw I see this issue, I feel like you need to change my mind and I feel fine saying agree to disagree. What works for you seems annoying and excessive to me. What works for me seems punitive to you. I don't think we have to do it the same to both be good moms.
post #37 of 122
Again, I think we all rock at our jobs for even entertaining this discussion! And I am a firm believer that we all do what's best for our families! I do agree that there are factors such as age, etc that come into play with all of this. And I 100% agree that there can be an over discussion w little ones when they are of appropriate age to reason, etc. I'm a relatively new mama but have worked with children for over 13 years in varying capacities and ive found that there really is a truth to over discussing something!! Kids will go on and I love their persistence but, again, when something needs to get done....lol. I love giving (esp older kids) the opportunity to express themselves in an open dialect and yet I also agree that, as an adult, I am secure in my position as guiding them within a set of parameters. I think we all basically agree on this, we just all have varying parameters. Some of us will discuss more w our kids and some less, and I think it's all good. I'm pretty confident that all of our littles FEEL heard by their parents which is really what matters. Whatever works for our families! smile.gif
post #38 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dauphinette View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

Anyway, I am actually very secure and happy with haw I see this issue, I feel like you need to change my mind and I feel fine saying agree to disagree. What works for you seems annoying and excessive to me. What works for me seems punitive to you. I don't think we have to do it the same to both be good moms.




I don't doubt that you are very secure and happy with how you see the issue. This is a just a discussion on how different parents do things differently. I think it's always good to hear how others do things differently and maybe they'll work for you and maybe they won't. But, I was glad to hear how you do things and I'm glad to read books on how others do things and see if any of that would work better for me.
post #39 of 122
We don't do time-outs. My kids would be devesatated. I think we run our family a little differently though. No rules. No limits on screen-time, no food restrictions. Kids sleep in our room, so no fights at bedtime. If the kids fight with each other, I might suggest that they hug each other. We have lots of conversations about respect, I reflect back what I think they might be feeling (that frustrates you?, are you feeling tired?). High expectations for behavior in public and at home, but not unrealistic or expectations that are innappropriate for age. It works very well for us.
post #40 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post


 But, I was glad to hear how you do things and I'm glad to read books on how others do things and see if any of that would work better for me.

Perfect! thumb.gif

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