or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Debate › Vaccination: A Mythical History
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Vaccination: A Mythical History - Page 3

post #41 of 141
Just go to whale.to to learn more, the above post is copy pasta from there.
post #42 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

First, smallpox is not a highly contagious disease, one doctor, Dr Charles Campbell believed it was an insect borne disease, carried by bedbugs.

 

Well, I'm confused because insect-borne diseases are still caused by microorganisms and are contagious.  Did he think it was simply an inflammatory response to bites?  I'm also still not sure how sanitation plays a role.

post #43 of 141
That's because that is the only source for this information on line. As teacozy said in another post where she posted a link from Rense (more out there than whale), if it is public record then it's okay. All these quotes are from printed sources.
post #44 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

That's because that is the only source for this information on line. As teacozy said in another post where she posted a link from Rense (more out there than whale), if it is public record then it's okay. All these quotes are from printed sources.

 

I said if its a *fact* it's ok. You know, the earth revolves around the sun, 2+2= 4, the courts ruled X and Y etc.  Just because it's printed doesn't make it a fact.  People can write anything they want. You'll find books about UFOs, alien abductions etc.  Public record is different than "it says so in a book from the 1930s".

 

You could probably find hundreds of quotes from doctors today saying the exact opposite for each one of those quotes.  Show me *evidence* ie studies that show that smallpox is a mild non infectious disease.   For example: If I stated that there was no possible way that a child who has been vaccinated for chickenpox could get chickenpox and my only evidence was quotes from doctors who anecdotally said they had never seen a patient who was vaccinated get chicken pox I don't see that going over to well.  FTR this is just an analogy. I do not actually believe it is impossible for someone who is vaccinated against chicken pox to get chicken pox.  

post #45 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Just go to whale.to to learn more, the above post is copy pasta from there.

 

:rotflmao:laugh

 

Why does that not surprise me? 

post #46 of 141

Here are some fun quotes about smallpox :

 

"The smallpox was always present, filling the churchyards with corpses, tormenting with constant fears all whom it had stricken, leaving on those whose lives it spared the hideous traces of its power, turning the babe into a changeling at which the mother shuddered, and making the eyes and cheeks of the bighearted maiden objects of horror to the lover." T.B. Macaulay The History of England from the Accession of James II, Vol IV Macaulay

 

"The most terrible of all the ministers of death..." T.B. Macaulay T.B

 

"...no man dared to count his children as his own until they had had the disease." Comte de la Condamine 18th century mathematician and scientist

 

"Future nations will know by history only that the loathsome smallpox has existed and by you has been extirpated." Thomas Jefferson, 1806

 

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/pox/quotes.html

 

Letter from Thomas Jefferson: 

 

"

 _To Dr. Edward Jenner_
        _Monticello, May 14, 1806_


        SIR, -- I have received a copy of the evidence at large
respecting the discovery of the vaccine inoculation which you have
been pleased to send me, and for which I return you my thanks.
Having been among the early converts, in this part of the globe, to
its efficiency, I took an early part in recommending it to my
countrymen.  I avail myself of this occasion of rendering you a
portion of the tribute of gratitude due to you from the whole human
family.  Medicine has never before produced any single improvement of
such utility. You have erased from the calendar of human afflictions
one of its greatest.  Yours is the comfortable reflection that
mankind can never forget that you have lived.  Future nations will
know by history only that the loathsome small-pox has existed and by
you has been extirpated.


        Accept my fervent wishes for your health and happiness and
assurances of the greatest respect and consideration.


SComte de la Condamine
18th ssSo do my quotes trump yours? 
T.B. Macaulay

post #47 of 141
It seems you may have missed the point of the previously quoted smallpox info. If you take another look, you will see that the quotes discussed the contagiousness of the illness and the effectiveness of different treatments. A more appropriate response, should you disagree with the poster's point, would address those ideas, not just dredge up some random quotes about smallpox. Your tone is extremely snide and bitter.
post #48 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post

It seems you may have missed the point of the previously quoted smallpox info. If you take another look, you will see that the quotes discussed the contagiousness of the illness and the effectiveness of different treatments. A more appropriate response, should you disagree with the poster's point, would address those ideas, not just dredge up some random quotes about smallpox. Your tone is extremely snide and bitter.

 

I was attacking this point she made "Provide no mischief be done by either by physician or nurse, it is the most safe and slight of all diseases - Thomas Sydenham"  

 

The most slight of all diseases? Is that even a serious quote? Apparently many people alive during that time didn't think so, nor did the 300 million people who died from the disease in the 20th century alone.  It killed A THIRD of those infected by it.  That is considered a "slight" mild disease? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/smallpox_01.shtml

 

And the quote from Thomas Jefferson also talked about the evidence he saw showing the efficacy of the vaccine. 

 

She is the one who is asserting that it is not contagious, that it is a mild and safe illness, the effectiveness of homeopathy treatments etc but has not provided evidence for any of it.  


Edited by teacozy - 10/14/13 at 3:37pm
post #49 of 141

The issue of how smallpox is transmitted is up for debate? Really?

post #50 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post
 

The issue of how smallpox is transmitted is up for debate? Really?

 

Apparently it's also up for debate whether it was a serious disease or not.

 

By the way, "copy pasta" is probably the best autocorrect I've seen.

post #51 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 
 

I was attacking this point she made "Provide no mischief be done by either by physician or nurse, it is the most safe and slight of all diseases - Thomas Sydenham"  

 

The most slight of all diseases? Is that even a serious quote? Apparently many people alive during that time didn't think so.

 

And the quote from Thomas Jefferson also talked about the evidence he saw showing the efficacy of the vaccine. 

 

She is the one who is asserting that it is not contagious, that it is a mild and safe illness, the effectiveness of homeopathy treatments etc but has not provided evidence for any of it.  

 

Thomas Syndeham was a physician who treated smallpox, only 1 to 2 percent of his patients died, as compared to 50%. That is the point, the man knew how to treat people with smallpox successfully. What killed people was not smallpox but their treatment. 
 
Your are also wrong, I am not asserting that smallpox is not contagious, I merely quoted a doctor who worked with infectious diseases who questioned the contagiousness of smallpox.
 
By the way, teacozy and Kate8681 please can you provide me with the primary research paper that describes the isolation, purification, classifical and EM photograph of the smallpox virus. Text book references not accepable. 
 
So to answer your question, Kate8616, yes it is still up for debate.

Edited by Mirzam - 10/14/13 at 3:51pm
post #52 of 141
post #53 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

 

I'm happy to oblige.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC518406/

 

J Bacteriol. 1948 January; 55(1): 45–51.
 
PMCID: PMC518406

The Use of the Electron Microscope in Diagnosis of Variola, Vaccinia, and Varicella

 
post #54 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

Right. So you posted about 4 quotes on the idea that smallpox is not contagious but you don't believe that to be true yourself. :dizzy   Point of posting them then was what? 

 

Did this Dr. provide any evidence of his claims? Any studies on the efficacy of his miraculous treatment? Is a quote from a Dr. who is presumable trying to sell this miraculous cure backed by nothing else really convincing evidence for you? 

post #55 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post
 

Here ya go. It's a good read. Published in 1948. 

 

http://jb.asm.org/content/55/1/45.full.pdf+html?ijkey=0166004adf91c5b1964bf40d38036be89a3485eb&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

 

Sorry, those photographs are not pure isolated virus, they are cell particles where the alleged virus resides. Viruses are always the same size and shape, the photographs show particles of slightly different sizes and shapes.

post #56 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 
Right. So you posted about 4 quotes on the idea that smallpox is not contagious but you don't believe that to be true yourself. :dizzy   Point of posting them then was what? 

 

Did this Dr. provide any evidence of his claims? Any studies on the efficacy of his miraculous treatment? Do you even care whether or not there is evidence? Is a quote from a Dr. who is presumable trying to sell this miraculous cure backed by nothing else really convincing evidence for you? 

 

My post was in response to cwill's question (probably disingenuous, but what the heck).

 

Oh please. Now you are accusing a long dead physician of trying to sell a smallpox cure. 

 

How sillly.

post #57 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

My post was in response to cwill's question (probably disingenuous, but what the heck).

 

Oh please. Now you are accusing a long dead physician of trying to sell a smallpox cure. 

 

How sillly.

Guess you've never heard of a snake oil salesmen then? They were very prevalent and would claim to have cures or treatments for anything and everything. 

post #58 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

My post was in response to cwill's question (probably disingenuous, but what the heck).

 

Oh please. Now you are accusing a long dead physician of trying to sell a smallpox cure. 

 

How sillly.

 

So wheres the evidence his treatment was effective? I'm still waiting...

post #59 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 
 

Guess you've never heard of a snake oil salesmen then? They were very prevalent and would claim to have cures or treatments for anything and everything. 

 

Shooting yourself in the foot again, teacozy.

 

Confirmed Snake Oil Works Better than Pharmaceuticals

post #60 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

Sorry, those photographs are not pure isolated virus, they are cell particles where the alleged virus resides. Viruses are always the same size and shape, the photographs show particles of slightly different sizes and shapes.

 

 

VIruses are not always the same size and shape!  :dizzyThat's just....wrong. 

 

ETA: "alleged virus"?  Do you not believe that viruses exist?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Vaccinations Debate
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Debate › Vaccination: A Mythical History