I'm pregnant with our 3rd child, we don't know the gender, I'm due any day (tomorrow is 39 weeks), my husband is culturally Jewish so our son was circumcised because it meant so much to him at the time, and I deeply regret not fighting for my son. We just started talking about the possibility of a boy and what to do about the circumcision. My husband is no longer interested in the religious ceremony (bris) but has deep, agonizing concerns that the younger son would have deep psychological issues being different from not only his father but more importantly his older, bigger brother. I think his concern is over the top on this issue but have no way to talk him down from his worked up state. My concern is inflicting unnecessary pain on my infant. If handled properly and talked about openly, I don't see the psychological issues being an issue as the boys grow and cannot stomach the idea of torturing another child of mine unnecessarily. I am currently searching for stories on either side of how families and brothers have handled the older one and dad being cut but not being cut himself. There will be about a 2.5 year difference between our son and #3. I am desperate to find stories, both positive and negative, about how this type of choice worked out in other families. Our children are naked a lot so DH assumes it will become an instant issue. We both believe in honest, age appropriate dialog with our children on all topics of their interest so I don't see how this issue would be received any differently. Our DD, 4.5 years older than #3, had a liver transplant at 9mo so I think we know how to handle hard topics as she has always been age appropriately informed of all the happened to her and why we have to continue with lab draws, medication, etc and she handles everything beautifully. Please help me make DH feel better about leaving a DS2 intact.
- topicCircumcisiontagged by PatriciaA, 9/25/13
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How do your uncircumcised and circumcised sons relate to each other and dad?post #1 of 249/25/13 at 6:30pmThread Starterpost #2 of 249/25/13 at 6:41pmI have 3 ds's. The older 2 are circ.ed the youngest is intact. Everyone asked me "well what will you tell him when he asks why his boy part is diff from his dad and bros?"
The truth! They had their foreskin cut off, you don't. granted, I owe my other boys an apology for allowing them to get cut. But I don't see any reason to cut a boy just because family members are. Ya know.
Good luck!post #3 of 249/25/13 at 8:05pm
Welcome to MDC, PatriciaA! What a lucky baby you have to have realized that leaving your child as he (possibly ;-)) was made is the way to go! And, how wonderful that your husband is coming around. It can be a very difficult transition to make from being okay w/ circ, to not.
If it's any help, my sons are intact but dh isn't. The issue of why they're different has yet to come up.
But, I think you were really looking for sons who are different. I believe there is a facebook group for parents who have one or more circ'd & one or more (or would not circ again even if they don't have intact children?) intact.
For some information on why this is a difficult transition for your dh, please read this. It is just for you, though. http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html
Your husband is worried there'll be deep psychological issues. Is this logical? How could there be psychological issues for a person to keep their whole body? Wouldn't it be much more likely the other way around? I think this is a common fear but it is not one that is based on logic but emotion. Is it possible that your husband worries that he has issues and/or your other children may because they are circ'd? Also, once you know better, it is extremely difficult to not do better. Apologizing to the children who you circ'd before your knew better would be an honest apology. Would it be an honest apology to the third child who you circ'd not because you didn't know better, but because you were worried about what *might* happen?
I think that finding that facebook group might help, if you are on it. If not, please feel free to post again & I will try to hunt it down to at least post a link to it. I'm not on FB but I think I could find out more about it for you, if you'd like ;-).
Best wishes to you & yours!
Suspost #4 of 249/25/13 at 9:58pmI felt I should add, what turned me away from circ in the first place. Ds2's circ got botched. He suffered from reoccurring yeast infections for 3 years, finally we had him re circ'd. It was SO painful for him. He was put under general anesthesia for the actual procedure but it was the recovery that was the worst of it. I remember him crying so hard no sound was coming out and he was just shaking! That's when I swore I would never allow any more of my sons to be mutilated.
My point is, circs do get messed up sometimes. So that's always something else to think about.post #5 of 249/26/13 at 2:51amThread Starter
Thanks, Sus. Would you please help me find the fb group? I'm having trouble as there is a lot out there.
Update: I just found "keeping future sons intact" on facebook interestingly through a psychologytoday.com post.
Edited by PatriciaA - 9/26/13 at 8:20ampost #6 of 249/26/13 at 5:16amMy oldest three boys were circed, but youngest was not. Honestly, the subject has never come up; none of my sons had ever asked about it. The other day, my oldest daughter and I were talking about birth issues, and she asked me what I thought about circumcision. My 11yo DS was with us, and I found out that he had absolutely no idea that there was anything different between him and his little brother. He also did not care.* My 10yo DS often bathes his little brother for me, and he never noticed the difference, either.
* He was much more interested in hearing about the hospital staff who mistreated me during his birth and my next son's birth, and hearing about if and when Daddy stood up for me. He cares more about imitating his father's character than his penis.post #7 of 249/26/13 at 8:18amThread Starterpost #8 of 249/26/13 at 9:27amQuote:Originally Posted by michelleepotter
My oldest three boys were circed, but youngest was not. Honestly, the subject has never come up; none of my sons had ever asked about it. The other day, my oldest daughter and I were talking about birth issues, and she asked me what I thought about circumcision. My 11yo DS was with us, and I found out that he had absolutely no idea that there was anything different between him and his little brother. He also did not care..
Yea, same here. My boys haven't even noticed the difference. (when/if they do, I'm just going to be honest. What else can you tell them but the truth)
I really think its way way way less of an issue than ppl think it will be. Brothers just aren't overly interested in each others privates...post #9 of 249/26/13 at 12:42pmpost #10 of 249/26/13 at 4:22pmThread Starter
Is there anyone who has a circ'd DH and at least one circ'd DS and one intact DS whose DH would be willing to talk peacefully with my DH about the decision and what the family dynamics are like when the intact boy became old enough to notice the difference? My DH says my sharing the comments here with him would not be useful but talking with an involved male might be. You can PM me and we'll set something up. The older your boys are the better. Thanks so much for all the positive, unheated comments so far. They are helping me to trust my gut better this time around.post #11 of 249/28/13 at 3:19amQuote:Originally Posted by PatriciaA
Is there anyone who has a circ'd DH and at least one circ'd DS and one intact DS whose DH would be willing to talk peacefully with my DH about the decision and what the family dynamics are like when the intact boy became old enough to notice the difference? My DH says my sharing the comments here with him would not be useful but talking with an involved male might be. You can PM me and we'll set something up. The older your boys are the better. Thanks so much for all the positive, unheated comments so far. They are helping me to trust my gut better this time around.
I was circuncised as an infant. My two younger brothers were not. This was never an issue for us. No effects that I can see.
My two sons are intact. They saw me naked many times. Was no more an issue than the fact that I have pubic hair and they did not, or that my penis was dramatically larger than they were at that stage. Or the fact that I was giant size compared to them or I wore glasses, had a beard, etc.
I am happy to discuss this with your husband. Our fears run away with us when it comes to our penis. But if you think about it a bit, it is just irrational fear. There is no reason why this should be an issue for kids anymore than the myriad other issues that come up. I didn't stop wearing glasses, get a wig, shave my pubic area or anythoing else to redcue mental trauma for my sons...
Regardspost #12 of 249/28/13 at 11:03ampost #13 of 249/30/13 at 9:00pm
I, too was (very regretfuly) circumcised as an infant. My son stayed whole. It was never an issue at all. I will add that I spent my entire grade school in boys boarding schools that had totaly open, communal shower rooms. Difference was never an issue there either, and I knew at least three sets of brothers where one was circumcised and one intact, and as far as I knew there were no issues.
I think that in the case of a younger child being kept intact, they are always very grateful that nothing was cut off them. They are very sorry for their circumcised Dad and siblings.post #14 of 2410/1/13 at 8:53pm
I have only one son. He is intact and his dad/my husband is circumcised. We also are not Jewish. However, my 10 year old intact boy never noticed the difference between him and his dad other than the hair. My son is now aware of circumcision (due to hearing me talk about it in general). He has asked his dad if he feels bad that he is circed, if it hurt him, etc., but never in a way where my son felt bad that *he* looked different or wasn't circumcised. If that makes sense. Taking care of intact boy is very easy and I've never heard stories where the boy had any issues with looking different than dad or siblings. I think it could easily be explained when your child is old enough.
Good luck in your decision and on the upcoming birth of your baby.post #15 of 2410/1/13 at 10:23pmpost #16 of 2410/2/13 at 1:55amI dated a man before my DH where the parents literally let the Dr decide, & then had their LOs all over the US & Spain. They had 6 sons & it was truly random, like back & forth with seemingly no reason! So my BF & his brother who he was super tight with (the two youngest) were one Circ'ed, one Intact. It wasn't something they were aware of until much later. My BF was the Circ'ed one, & just due to personality differences & libido differences, his happened to be a lot more social. So he wasn't insecure @ all. Later, after me & some other exGFs started having LOs, we would tease him a little about it & he never seemed bothered @ all & would talk pretty openly about not really realizing the difference growing up. Both me & another major exGF wound up being Intactivists, but we still remember our time with him really fondly in that way.
My boys know the difference (both are intact), but that is because I have explained it to them. They are also familiar with their dad, who still has 1/2 to 2/3 of his original foreskin. So an in-between state.
My boys have cousins where one is Circ'ed, one Intact due to Medicaid changes & again, no real issues, I think there are more sibling groups with different statuses than we realize.post #17 of 2410/3/13 at 2:44pmpost #18 of 2410/4/13 at 5:37amHere is some additional information that may be helpful:
The Vulnerability of Men - http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html
The Elephant in the Hospital Video About Why RIC is so Pervasive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I&feature=player_embedded
The Unreperesnted Voices Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKTLN-xINA
Is Circumcision Legal by our Standards? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKTLN-xINA
How other Women dealt with this:
There are more if you want to look back and find them...
It is imperitive that we, as parents, make clear headed decisions about important matters. That means being able to articulate a logical reason why our alternative, ie RIC, is the best choice, in a way that is compelling to the other parent. If we cannot do that, and instead use emotion and irrational "bullying', then the default should be to leave the child intact.
Remember, it is not your husbands penis, it is your son's. Your son is the only one who should be able to decide to amputate parts of his body unless there are compelling medical reasons that cannot wait.
Best wishes that your son remains intact and your husband can deal with his own loss in a more positive way than amputating healthy body parts off his son.
Edited by Greg B - 10/5/13 at 3:27ampost #19 of 2410/7/13 at 6:18pmpost #20 of 2410/8/13 at 5:01am
Quote: "We told the boys that's what people thought was good back in the 70s, now we know better than to cut off a body part. End of that."
That is a perfect explanation - Concise and easily understood. I am sure your boys expressed sympathy for their Dad, and huge relief that it wasn't done to them!!
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