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crunchiness and stereotypes - Page 2

post #21 of 42

That is so true Dalia... some of the longest, craziest fights on Mothering have been over the silliest things.

post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalia View Post

I think if I started a thread that said "I love chocolate" eventually there would be some kind of crazy argument and people getting offended all over the place! It's silly.


FWIW, I'm not offended by the quiz. 

 

I thought the way it was presented, with the lead-up regarding pro-vaxx and crunchy articles being annoying and perpetuating stereotypes, was amusingly ironic.  Perhaps I tried 2 posts too long to get someone else to agree with me.  Oh well.  I think I just don't get what point km is trying to make.

post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwill View Post
 


FWIW, I'm not offended by the quiz. 

 

I thought the way it was presented, with the lead-up regarding pro-vaxx and crunchy articles being annoying and perpetuating stereotypes, was amusingly ironic.  Perhaps I tried 2 posts too long to get someone else to agree with me.  Oh well.  I think I just don't get what point km is trying to make.

 

Yeah I agree. I am not personally offended by the quiz, but I found it ironic too.  Stating that the vaccine crunchy stereotype was annoying and then linking to a quiz that docked your "crunchy" points off if you vaccinate. Pretty hilarious. 

post #24 of 42
Thread Starter 

I am not handing in my quasi-crunchy card because I did not cloth diaper, no one expects me too and I don't go around writing articles or creating memes saying "you can be crunchy and disposable diaper!"  (or inset one of the other 18 points on the thread).  It is a little victim-y (who said you cannot disposable diaper and be crunchy?  And even if someone did say it - why are you (general you) taking it on to the point where you start creating memes and having it as an intro to half the blog posts?).  

 

In any event, I have said (repeatedly) the quiz was meant for fun only and not particularly well vetted.  I am not surprised some people are making that the point instead of the repeated nonsense of "you can vax and be crunchy!"  It is mind-boggling insensitive.  Not a week (nay, a day) goes by even on this forum without a non-vaxxer being called:

 

-a conspiracy theorist

-stupid (or some version thereof)

-selfish

  and for extra bonus points, and thankfully, a little less frequently: 

-a baby killer

-into eugenics

-a liar

 

So, yeah, poor you.  Some people (who are wrong, IMHO)  think vaxxing equals not crunchy.  Call a wahmbualnce.  


Edited by kathymuggle - 10/20/13 at 7:14pm
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwill View Post

 

I don't know, I'm actually quite crunchy - just not when it comes to medical decisions - so I'm more annoyed that I'm marginalized because I choose hospital birth, don't use homeopathy, and vaccinate than the implication that non-vaxxers are more prevalent in the crunchy community.  It's not a big deal because it's not a huge part of my identity, but I can definitely understand where the article authors/meme creators are coming from.

Same. There are many choices I make that I'd rather discuss in the "crunchy" community than in the "mainstream" community. Fr'instance, I am supportive of the choice of using formula, but if I choose to breastfeed (which I did and plan to again), I'd rather get advice from people whose goal is to continue breastfeeding rather than from people who are more inclined to shift to formula fairly quickly. If I'm having a sleep issue with an infant, I'd rather have a discussion in which sleep training isn't a considered option. And so on. But while I'm fairly non-interventionist I am not "crunchy" in terms of my medical decisions (at least, not the way a lot of people seem to define "crunchy"). And I don't like the insinuations that I don't belong here because of that. 

 

I was a little stymied by the question on the quiz about whether I'd use herbals. I would choose a particular herbal if it seemed to be the correct product for my situation, given its individual pros and cons. Just like any other medication or medical intervention. But I wouldn't preferentially choose an herbal over a manufactured pharmaceutical solely on the grounds that it was an herbal. 

 

I scored an 84. I typically wear business-casual tops or T-shirts, with sweaters or sweatshirts depending on my mood, and typically with long skirts. I have short hair and don't wear dreads.

post #26 of 42

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I am not handing in my quasi-crunchy card because I did not cloth diaper, no one expects me too and I don't go around writing articles or creating memes saying "you can be crunchy and disposible diaper!"  (or inset one of the other 18 points on the thread).  It is a little victum-y (who said you cannot disposible diaper and be crunchy?  And even if someone did say it - why are you (general you) taking it on to the point where you start creating memes and having it as an intro to half the blog posts?).  

 

I see a lot of parents banding together on Mothering and saying, I'm crunchy, but we eat fast food.  I'm crunchy, but we watch TV and game.  I'm crunchy, but I formula fed my babies.  I'm crunchy, but I choose not to stay at home with my kids.  The natural parenting community can often seem like it has pretty strict rules and it's refreshing for a lot of people to reach out to other that identify with some parts but not others.  I don't know what blog you are talking about, but people make memes about everything so I don't know why that bothers you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

In any event, I have said (repeatedly) the quiz was meant for fun only and not particulalry well vetted.  I am not surprised some people are making that the point instead of the repeated nonsense of "you can vax and be crunchy!"  It is mind-boggling insenstivity.

 

It has nothing to do with the quiz and everything to do with being willing to overlook (fun!) stereotypes from one source, but not from another (who happens to be pro-vaxx).  Insensitivity runs on both sides on this forum.  Non-vaxxers have it worse with marginalization in the real world, but I here am also considered stupid, selfish, a liar, a shill, a sheep, drunk on science, drinking the kool-aid, etc. 

 

The memes have nothing to do with non-vaxxers and your choices.  They are written simply for parents who vaccinate.  I tried to explain that above.  You can continue to read criticism of your choice into them if you choose.  But they seriously have nothing to do with you. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post 
 
So, yeah, poor you.  Some people (who are wrong, IMHO)  think vaxxing equals not crunchy.  Call a wahmbualnce.

 

I don't get why you are reading so much into a meme.  But if it bothers you that I might reach out to other vaccinating parents within my community for information, for support, or to occasionally gripe (which is at the most what the meme is doing) then I have nothing left to say. 

post #27 of 42
And another thread bites the dust...
post #28 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalia View Post

And another thread bites the dust...

Yeah, partly my fault, and I started the thread!  

 

Vaxxers and non-vaxxers do not typically get along online.

 

I don't know if there is too much water under the bridge so we don't cut each other much slack, or some people are more focused on winning or scoring points than anything else.  Probably both.

 

It is kind of ironic - because I actually agree that vaxxers can be crunchy.  It was one of the things I was trying to show with the quiz.  Only 2 vaxxers posted their scores -and one was higher than me and higher than a lot of non-vaxxers on here.  I am simply tired of the way the message is continually delivered.  It seems to be implying people are non-vax because it is the crunchy thing to do - and I do not agree with that at all. 

post #29 of 42

Don't everybody get so down on the thread.  It was a bit of a silly quiz.  I seriously don't know anybody who fits the perfect vision of crunchy, anymore than anybody except Martha Stewart lives like Martha Stewart.  I might have gotten a higher score when I lived out of my backpack and washed my underwear in public library sinks (sorry... gotta do what you gotta do!) and harvested my medicinals off the side of the flippin' road for cryin' out loud.  I even made my own moccasins and washed my handmade clothes about every two weeks.  Compared to that girl, I am a warm, soggy bowl of last week's forgotten mush (that doesn't even make sense, sorry.)

 

Scored a 144.  We have vaxxed in the past, and being a mama who chose a hospital birth for the first and needed a VBAC for the second, instead of a homebirth with or without a midwife, I'm a bit astounded at the level of sensitivity about the vax/non-vax issue here.  

 

kathy, I see why someone would want to post a link to the quiz.  For me it was like questioning, "so what do y'all think about this vision of what crunchy is supposed to be".   

 

I would love to find a picture of what I might look like.  It changes seasonally.  Something like a silver-haired Charlize Theron on a frumpy day, I think :p.  Gotta be, I'm sure.

post #30 of 42

*

That's me in the center doing the Hokey Pokey (very carefully) with my daughter.  70's music for the party, so I wore my loudest knee highs.  Love the knee highs, but not usually over my pants.  See?  A shoe-in for Charlize Theron.... if she were 10 inches shorter, 65 pounds heavier.  

post #31 of 42

I got a 92. We delay/selectively vax. I don't know how to go about finding a picture of someone on the internet who dresses like me. It's certainly not going to be any movie stars! I spend most of my time in t-shirts (the kind you get for free at family reunions, not the kind you pay $50 for at J. Crew) and capris. It's starting to actually pretend like fall is coming now, though, so I may have to come up with some pants of some sort. None of my clothes fit that great since a.) they are years old, and b.) my post-baby body, while weighing less than my immediately pre-baby body seems to be oddly shaped. :P

post #32 of 42

Oh, and since the thread is half-derailed already anyway, can I just say that I'm annoyed by all the assumptions made about the reasons why people don't vaccinate? My reasons for selective vaccination have nothing to do with autism concerns, big-pharma conspiracy theories, or believing that vaccines are totally useless and/or poison. I hate all the articles/blogs claiming to "refute" all the arguments of selective/delayed/non-vaxxers that don't touch on a single one of my reasons for making the choices I have, and then smugly proclaim to have annihilated all reasons for not shutting up and doing as we're told.

post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyscience View Post
 

Oh, and since the thread is half-derailed already anyway, can I just say that I'm annoyed by all the assumptions made about the reasons why people don't vaccinate? My reasons for selective vaccination have nothing to do with autism concerns, big-pharma conspiracy theories, or believing that vaccines are totally useless and/or poison. I hate all the articles/blogs claiming to "refute" all the arguments of selective/delayed/non-vaxxers that don't touch on a single one of my reasons for making the choices I have, and then smugly proclaim to have annihilated all reasons for not shutting up and doing as we're told.

A valid point. I vaccinate on schedule and I still get irritated by vaxxers claiming that non-vaxxers are only doing it because they're brainwashed by Jenny McCarthy, or some other similarly dumb statement. I mean, way to lump everybody into one group and try to make it look as stupid as possible. Nobody on any side of any debate ever appreciates that, and it doesn't accomplish anything. 

post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

A valid point. I vaccinate on schedule and I still get irritated by vaxxers claiming that non-vaxxers are only doing it because they're brainwashed by Jenny McCarthy, or some other similarly dumb statement. I mean, way to lump everybody into one group and try to make it look as stupid as possible. Nobody on any side of any debate ever appreciates that, and it doesn't accomplish anything. 


AMEN!!!
post #35 of 42
Who needs the label anyway - my whanau would describe me as crunchier than granola. My babysitter makes me look like pudding. One of the great things about leaving high school is that you can pick and choose from different philosophies what suits you best. From reading the posts that's exactly what everyone does - so why the label. Btw I vac the nz schedule which skips a lot of the us vaccines like chicken pox. Btw i wear jeans and a t shirt and proudly shampoo my hair after a year of no pooing
post #36 of 42

132 but found the quiz next to useless, particularly question 11. Why is wheat/whole grains in almost every single answer? :eyesroll Guess that kicks the GFers, primal and paleo folks to the curb. 

 

I also find the correlation between homeschooling and personal grooming a bit questionable. Makes it sound like crunchy folks are all barefoot, hair-covered hippies living in the woods. Funny, I think the booming market on organic makeup and skin care contradicts this. All the homeschoolers I know personally do vaccinate and are probably less "crunchy" than I am. Go figure.

post #37 of 42

You also don't get to have options on everything, and can still be sort of crunchy. For us, homeschooling is not an option, not just financially, but because it wouldn't be good for our boy. In Germany, we would have been prosecuted and that is that, so he started to adore school. In the UK, you theoretically do have the the option, but my boy would absolutely hate it and we couldn't afford it. He looks forward to every school day and NOBODY close to us home-schools, so he would be pretty isolated.

 

From what I hear from my American friends about Common Core and home-schooling being done more, we would possibly do it there. And he would have friends who receive their education at home and not be isolated. He is such a social little guy who wants to be around peers ALL DAY. 

 

For diapering, we did both. Cloth and organic nappies. Can't cloth diaper in a hospital, there is no way. Herbal, yes of course, but not instead of medication. He would not be alive had we done that. 

 

You don't always "get" to choose the crunchy way and quiz didn't really take that into account.


Edited by EineMutti - 10/29/13 at 4:01pm
post #38 of 42

The haircut is right on, I don't know how accurate it is otherwise but she is the 1st person i thought of. Def. used to be Darlene from Rosanne back in the 90's!

I got a 96. I vax on schedule. My plans for home birth, co-sleeping, breast fed until DD can write me an essay about why she wants to stop (lol.gif) were derailed when was born very premature, months in the hospital, oral aversion etc. So on my ideal world I would be a 122, and im hopeful for next time around... I was actually thrilled to see that exclusively pumping earned me street cred, cause man did that take work and commitment. I think DD is just less crunchy than me. I remember my crunchy mom telling me she was vegetarian until I came along and would only eat hotdogs, and I can empathize with her...
Edited by Ratchet - 10/28/13 at 4:46pm
post #39 of 42

I scored a 99. I don't vax.

 

I look like a normal brunette who bathes regularly :)

post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 

I look like a normal brunette who bathes regularly :)

Well, if you bathe regularly, that is it.  You are out of the Club.  Don't you know that all the bacteria living on your body and offending the unenlightened can prevent cancer?  And Alzheimer's?  You need to bathe once a month or less to realize the full benefits.  And then cold water, no soap unless it is freshly grated yucca root.  Helps to have a loved one sit and pick the edible bits out of your hair.

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