Originally Posted by Taximom5
If you're going to raise the excellent question of "what exactly is the ideal plan," we need to consider many facts and many questions.
Fact 1: Vaccination, whether mandatory or not, is resulting in SOME children dying, and SOME children having a lifetime of serious problems. In other words, vaccination is a vicious cycle that kills children.
Dying from a vaccine is EXTREMELY rare. A lot of vaccines have never had a reported death. A lot more children would die if vaccines ceased to exist. Vaccines have saved millions of lives. No one is going to buy the argument that vaccines kill more people than they save.
Dying from measles is also EXTREMELY RARE. It doesn't matter if 1 or 10 or 100 more people die from measles than from vaccines; an invasive procedure that can also cause death is unethical if the true risks of the invasive procedure are not admitted, and if the true risks of the disease itself are exaggerated.
Fact 2: For the vast majority of children, measles is not deadly disease.
Agreed. But a child is still thousands of times more likely to die from measles than the MMR. Even if you took a *very* conservative estimate that 1 in 3,000 died from measles and you looked at just three years of children not being vaccinated in the US that would be 12 million children without a measles immunity in an outbreak. That would mean 4,000 dead children from one outbreak of one disease in one country. If you include SSPE, which occurs in 1 in 10,000 cases of measles, that's an additional 1,200 people that will die from measles from one outbreak. Clearly the benefits outweigh the risks.
Your numbers are completely invented. We don't know how many children have died from the MMR, nor do we know how many children have suffered permanent brain damage from the MMR, because most of those cases went unrecognized and unreported.
Fact 3: There are methods other than vaccination to reduce the chance of severe complication from measles (pre-screening and treating for vitamin A deficiency, for example).
That may be helpful in developing countries, but not very helpful in the US. " Approximately 250,000-500,000 children in developing countries become blind each year owing to vitamin A deficiency, with the highest prevalence in Southeast Asia and Africa. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), vitamin A deficiency is under control in the United States, but in developing countries vitamin A deficiency is a significant " http://www.news-medical.net/health/Vitamin-A-Deficiency.aspx
Measles complications in the US are EXTREMELY rare, remember? Measles complications in developing countries seem to be more linked with malnutrition and poor sanitation, rather than having a vaccine deficiency.
Fact 4/Questions 1 and 2: Since pneumonia is one of the more severe possible complications for measles, and since children with asthma are more prone to develop pneumonia, that needs to be looked into as well. Vaccination can trigger asthma in people who never had asthma before. To what extent are OTHER vaccines predisposing children to asthma, and to what extent is the entire vaccine schedule making children vulnerable to pneumonia?
Vaccines don't cause asthma.
Several studies indicate that they do:
A very well-referenced summary of published medical research linking vaccination and atopic effect, such as asthma: http://www.blackherbals.com/culprit_behind_asthma_and_allergies_vaccination.htm
Discussion by a pharmacist: http://www.remedyspot.com/showthread.php/2244510-Can-Hib-Vaccine-Cause-Asthma
Fact 5: We need to stop fear-mongering where measles is concerned. It was not considered a killer disease in the 1950's. There is no reason for it to be considered so now. If anything, we should be able to manage both measles and most resulting complications better today. We should also be able to pre-screen children for likelihood of complications from both measles and vaccines, and decide accordingly.
See my numbers above.
No need; they had nothing to do with reality. Remember? They failed to account for unrecognized and unreported adverse effects.
Fact 5: We also need to stop looking at the situation as though the only two possible choices are
"Vaccines!!" or "Death from Vaccine-Preventable Diseases!!" This is not a realistic portrayal of the situation.
It's a balance of risk. You aren't guaranteed to die if you don't vaccinate, obviously. But the chance is much much higher that you will die from a VPD than from a vac
We actually have no idea what the balance of risk is, because the industry has engaged in large-scale fraud with vaccines, just like the tobacco industry did with cigarettes. The vaccine/pharmaceutical industry, however, learned from Big Tobacco's mistakes, and has made sure to place insiders in the government agencies that are meant to prevent such fraud.