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Is society negative about stay at home moms? - Page 11

post #201 of 213

ICM:

 

Evidently, its not so good in Germany:

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/unequal-opportunities-german-women-disappointed-by-job-discrimination-act-a-600004.html

 

I believe I remember reading at some point that the German educational step up virtually ends up requiring that mothers not be more than part-time workers, though how true and accurate that is I'm not sure.   I will say that they have a particularly eloquent insult that can be used for WOHMs:  rabenmutter.

post #202 of 213
rabenmutter=bad mother?

Wow!

My thoughts: If we had better family leave policies in this country, maybe we would have less issues. Parents should be able to stay home with infants (for at least a year, if desired) and be able to return to their former jobs, if desired.

Personally, I think society is pretty negative towards WOHM's with toddlers/infants. Society also tends to harbor hostilities towards SAHM's with school-age or older kids. I honestly don't know of ANYONE IRL who managed to stay at home with small children and then transition into a great career as soon as the kids started school. Unfortunately, this seems to be society's expectation.
post #203 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

 

I believe I remember reading at some point that the German educational step up virtually ends up requiring that mothers not be more than part-time workers, though how true and accurate that is I'm not sure.   I will say that they have a particularly eloquent insult that can be used for WOHMs:  rabenmutter.

In double checking my read on the word "rabenmutter", which I have never heard, I found this. Interesting because the small office I was referring to was a law office. http://cwsl.edu/content/journals/Slotkin.pdf

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSLaura View Post

My thoughts: If we had better family leave policies in this country, maybe we would have less issues. Parents should be able to stay home with infants (for at least a year, if desired) and be able to return to their former jobs, if desired.
 
Yes, so true. I think there is a lot mis-understood when we try to evaluate another parent's choice. I mean, even when someone tells us personally why they chose what they did -- that may not even be the whole picture. 
 
Delighted.... I'm sorry if my posts were contributing to the drama. And to anyone I bummed out in wanting to join the discussion the way that I did. I still think it's good to be able to point out when something we or an online peer says something we think may offend...but I really should have asked for more clarity first. Because, you're right -- even when we are speaking for ourselves, we're only sharing part of the story and then, of course, so much is lost in the online format. 
 
Before DB even posted to the thread, I did read the guidelines. I was pleased to find that this is NOT the SAHM forum, btw. This is the SAHP forum!  There's some progress right there.  
 
I do agree wholeheartedly that it is a terrible shame that women who choose to work out of the home are not given the same treatment as fathers. We do have the concept of SAHD down pretty well in the communities I live in (and I know a bunch!) but we don't really talk about "WOHDs". Still some room for improvement. 
 
 
post #204 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

I was pleased to find that this is NOT the SAHM forum, btw. This is the SAHP forum! There's some progress right there.

Yes, I thought so too, but then I saw that it's a subforum of "Parenting" (again, great!), which is a subforum of ... "Mom." D'oh! lol.gifheadscratch.gif
post #205 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post


Yes, I thought so too, but then I saw that it's a subforum of "Parenting" (again, great!), which is a subforum of ... "Mom." D'oh! lol.gifheadscratch.gif

Ah...so close!  

post #206 of 213
A couple thoughts I've had...

From my experience with Canadian maternity leave, there doesn't seem to be problem returning to work or finding a job after mat leave or while pregnant. I'm sure it may occur in some capacity but issues with returning to work seem to be mostly childcare related.

Another thought though is one that I have found... It is harder to go back to work when you've been removed for some time. I went back after my first to my old job and so much had changed, and yet the same drama was happening. The first week back I was pulled into a meeting to discuss problems that had been occurring and help find solutions. Except I hadn't know anything about them, I had a good report with both upper staff and lower staff and was able to bridge the communication gap is why I think I was brought in but it was a shock!

I look every so often at going back and it's hard for me to fathom going back to a job but it's mainly because it would be something different than before. I can only imagine trying to go back to a career you loved after 4-5 years out of it and basically having to start over again but yet not being "new" to the job.

I really think the world need strong working parent models and strong stay at home models. Not every child needs both but I think children can be exposed to a variety of models through various relationships. I know it was great to have my mom home throughout my childhood. I do wish she would have worked very part time when we were older though because it would have been good for *her*. But I also had friends whose parents both worked full time and friends who's parents worked part time or owned their own business' and had more flexibility... I don't think one or another has a better outcome. I just wish all parents were treated with the same respect in their choices.
post #207 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by delightedbutterfly View Post

A couple thoughts I've had...

From my experience with Canadian maternity leave, there doesn't seem to be problem returning to work or finding a job after mat leave or while pregnant. I'm sure it may occur in some capacity but issues with returning to work seem to be mostly childcare related.

Another thought though is one that I have found... It is harder to go back to work when you've been removed for some time. I went back after my first to my old job and so much had changed, and yet the same drama was happening. The first week back I was pulled into a meeting to discuss problems that had been occurring and help find solutions. Except I hadn't know anything about them, I had a good report with both upper staff and lower staff and was able to bridge the communication gap is why I think I was brought in but it was a shock!

I look every so often at going back and it's hard for me to fathom going back to a job but it's mainly because it would be something different than before. I can only imagine trying to go back to a career you loved after 4-5 years out of it and basically having to start over again but yet not being "new" to the job.

I really think the world need strong working parent models and strong stay at home models. Not every child needs both but I think children can be exposed to a variety of models through various relationships. I know it was great to have my mom home throughout my childhood. I do wish she would have worked very part time when we were older though because it would have been good for *her*. But I also had friends whose parents both worked full time and friends who's parents worked part time or owned their own business' and had more flexibility... I don't think one or another has a better outcome. I just wish all parents were treated with the same respect in their choices.

I like how you put this.

post #208 of 213
My youngest has the chicken pox right now and I was looking at very part time work/babysitting jobs Tuesday while waiting to pick up my older daughter from school. I'd love to bring in a *little* bit extra. Not as a need but to fund some of the wants a little easier. And because I'm a bit bored at times.

But then I look today and think about how hard it would have been to have the little one off school and needy of my attention and I've had the older one home too in case she has it and is contagious and I know that any job I did have would have to come with very flexible hours/sick days/vacation because of what our family needs at the moment.

I know some mentioned having the flexibility at their work and I'm in awe of that. I think it's wonderful! My working experience was the opposite (I worked with strep, fever, colds and pink eye before) and I think that combined with one of our family owning a large daycare center made staying at home as much as possible our choice. I think I felt like people looked down on me not going back because I made good money, I had lots of affordable or free daycare options and I had a benefits package and staying home meant a lot of sacrifices for us as a family. But looking back now, it taught us so much and it was good for us as a family for various personal reasons.

I can definitely see how others personal situations would benefit from part time work, no work, full time work too. I know that all sides will always have some negative aspect to it.

But it's funny.. Where we used to live was very negative to SAHP's but was more hippyish and also expensive compared to wages. Here it's more traditional 50's family and while prices are about the same wages are higher but it's more negative towards SAHMoms... I know a bunch of SAHM's with all kids in school here whereas back home most of my parent friends worked and rarely would you see a SAHP who didn't work while their kids were in school. So I think geography might have something to do with it as well.
post #209 of 213

To be honest..no idea. I have received nothing but love and support about any choices I make and I give nothing but love and support for any choices someone else makes even if I don't agree. I know there are individuals who are against it but I have never experienced negativity. I think it has more to do with the people you choose to be around.

post #210 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by annlea View Post
 

To be honest..no idea. I have received nothing but love and support about any choices I make and I give nothing but love and support for any choices someone else makes even if I don't agree. I know there are individuals who are against it but I have never experienced negativity. I think it has more to do with the people you choose to be around.

Yes, this is me too. I sympathize with people who are stuck with a community that includes people who can't embrace a wide range of choices but, in my experience, I get what I give, for the most part.  I find that if I seek understanding and connection with people they do the same with me. A result is that we both learn from each other. 

post #211 of 213
Wow. I'm a long-time lurker who read this entire thread and was moved to post. I thought that this would be the one place if any for nonjudgmental support for both moms who stay home (as well as moms who don't). For the most part this community seems supportive, but why squabble over whether staying at home is a privilege? If it is or isn't, I plan to do it either way. And my husband *does* make *less* than $30,000 per year, in response to the poster (Amber something, sorry I don't remember the poster's handle exactly) who said that making $30,000 per year would be too little for a family to live on. In fact, he's in graduate school for a PhD, so it's significantly less. As for women who choose to work: power to you. In a different life I might have been working too. But I'm not, and I'm scared of seeming invisible in society. I came here for reassurance and respectful discourse (just as I respect moms who work).

I am saddened by the fact that privilege is inequitably distributed in society, and I'm sad that some moms who would like to stay at home can't. I've worked as a social worker for many years to try to ameliorate social injustice of various kinds, and I plan to volunteer my time as well. But, whether or not staying at home with my kids is a privilege has no bearing on my decision to do so. What does that matter? I'm not saying everyone should stay at home, just that I am. My heart goes out to those who want to and can't.

But life is too short to fight with strangers on the internet. So, let's continue supporting each other.

I've appreciated the different viewpoints on this thread and hope I find a group of moms to hang out with during the day. It seems like most people here have experienced a lot of judgement from their communities, and I think maybe it comes from other people's ignorance about life as a stay at home mom. As in, maybe it's just really hard for an outsider to understand that being home all day makes the house so much dirtier or that housework/caring for children is like a gaseous substance that expands to fit the container you put it in. What I mean by that is that things seem to take as much time as you have to do them, and nothing ever seems done.

I better stop now as this is so long. Thanks for this space, everyone. I have learned a lot from these forums.
post #212 of 213
Thread Starter 
Welcome to Mothering, @MarilynLeigh !!

The Stay-at-home/Work-outside home debate goes on here as everywhere! But I think you'll find there are lots of us who stay at home here, and I find most people at Mothering supportive, despite the debates. It's one of the things I like about this place!
post #213 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarilynLeigh View Post

But life is too short to fight with strangers on the internet. So, let's continue supporting each other.
 

Say it, sister!

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