or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Life With a Baby › Surviving with little to no sleep
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Surviving with little to no sleep - Page 2

post #21 of 55

 4 months is normal for sleep regression. It won't last forever I have been there. Good luck Mama!

post #22 of 55

I do realize the OP is using the 'No Cry sleep solutions' book, so this is really to anyone else who may be going through this.  

 

I know co-sleeping is not for everyone, but it saves us because I don't actually have to wake up or get up for the 8+ nursing DS is doing at night and has been doing since he was born.  He is by far my worst sleeper, but I don't feel that exhausted most days.  Having a baby is tiring for sure and everyone should really expect to be a little tired, but it is no fun being exhausted.  

 

Good luck to everyone.

post #23 of 55
My baby is 4 months and has been waking up every 2 hours or so at night, except last night was every hour from about 2:30 on. I think part of the problem is that she gets hungry. In the last two weeks she's been so much more aware of things around her and she pretty much would rather do anything besides eat during the day; so she makes up for it at night. I don't want to forcefeed her, but any tips to get her to eat more during the day so she sleeps better at night? She's bottle fed, mostly formula but some donor bm when we have it. She won't take more than ~2 oz at a time and drinks ~25 oz in a 24 hour period. Thanks!
post #24 of 55
Thread Starter 

Harmonius, my son was doing the EXACT same thing a few weeks ago! I thought it was hunger, so we tried increasing his bottles from 4 oz to 5 oz, adding cereal, feeding more often, etc...nothing helped. We were using the "No Cry Sleep Solution"  and saw a bit of improvement, but were really concerned about the baby not getting quality sleep and our ability to parent while we were zombies. 

 We were going into his nursery every 45 minutes-hour after 1 or 2 am to feed him or just rock him back to sleep...we finally decided we would try letting him cry for a bit with some reassurance from us every couple minutes. We had tried it before and he was not having it and we all ended up in tears...this time, we decided we would stop if it seemed excessive or if we or the baby was getting too distressed. Naturally, the first night was the hardest, but he ended up sleeping 7 hours straight and then waking twice to eat around 1am and 4:30am, the second and third nights he had minimal crying and slept 6.5 hours straight night 2 and 8 hours night 3. Tonight, he didn't cry at all and fell asleep within 9 minutes. I HATED cry it out methods and really thought it was evil, but helping my son fall asleep on his own with us there to help him has made him a new baby. He actually gets quality sleep and is so much more alert and happier during the day. To each his own, but if that's something you're willing to try, I would research it and see if poor sleep associations are the problem. 

 

Regarding the day feeding, you could try spreading times in between feedings to get your LO good and hungry and then giving her 4 oz. instead of 2. My son tends to eat better (he's also easily distracted) when he's hungry, otherwise he'll just play around and try looking everywhere but at his food. Heated milk helps for temperature sensitive babies if you're not already doing that. Another big thing that may help is cutting her last feed of the night so she is hungrier during the day. You can slowly start dropping feeds at night (not all as babies may need night feeds for several months) and getting her to make up for them during the day as long as she is getting enough ounces per 24 hrs and growing well. Your LO would probably be fine with 1-2 night feeds by this age with sufficient day ounces being consumed. I know the pain of little sleep very well and know that you and your family will make it through and find the way that works best for you. I hope some suggestions help to get you on the right track! :) Happy Thanksgiving!! 

post #25 of 55
Hate to say it but my oldest needed a little CIO time to get over the hump to STTN. Just lastnight I thought I was going to rock and soothe my DD to sleep and she was just crying and yelling (7 months old). I finally just laid her in her crib and she instantly rolled to her side and zonked out. I think some kids just need to learn or have help with sleeping this way. Both my kids hated co sleeping and being in a baby carrier or wrap too. Indepedent spirits I guess...
post #26 of 55
I always figure they will learn to sleep better eventually. Mine have at around 18-20 months. Until then I snuggle and nurse them often at night. It seems like it will never end, but it does an they get big fast.... glad I expected really bad sleep from the begining so I was not stressed or pressured to get them to sleep better. Good luck.
post #27 of 55
Tuesdayweathers and BaileyB, In case you are unaware, MDC is a community which does not endorse CIO. We would be happy to help you and support you with helping your baby sleep, but NOT by using a method which only says to a baby that "your needs will not be met. Your cries are not important. And we're ignoring you." So that eventually the baby gives up and shuts down. it is not that the baby learns to sleep on his/her own, it's that they learn no one is attending to them. There was a research that showed that babies who are left to cry it out to sleep kept abnormally high stress levels and even after being asleep, their stress levels remained at the same high level that they were at while crying. Even though they stopped crying, they are still in obvious distress from being ignored.

I have volunteered in foreign orphanages and there are rooms full of babies that are eiriely quiet bc unintentionally the babies are left to CIO since It Is such short staffed. They learned not to cry since no one rsponds. Im not saying that your kids are being treated as badly as there. Im simply writing these things so you kmow that most mothers on mdc are practicing evidence-based and well researched parenting that Is why we strongly oppose CIO.
post #28 of 55
I am not endorsing telling a mother who possibly has not slept in weeks that if she just cuddles and nurses her babe a little more that she only has to wait until that 4 month old is almost 2 and then she can get some sleep again. As far as cry it out, I am not endorsing leaving your crying infant in their crib in another room while you snooze away to get your 8 hours but you definitely dont need to jump out of bed at every fuss or noise. Letting your baby fuss or cry is not the same as the true CIO method, kwim? At some point in their sleep development they wake up just like all people do, take a look around and go back to sleep. At 4-5months this starts to happen and if you stick a boob in their mouth everytime this happens they are going to start to need something like nursing or a snack to fall back to sleep.

I am pro breastfeeding and pro co sleeping if they are working but I am definetly not pro ignoring a mother who is loking for alternatives to try and telling just to wait another 18 months to sleep. Normally I do adhere to MDC's rules but in this case just wanted to gree with someone on what worked for both my kods.
post #29 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

I am not endorsing telling a mother who possibly has not slept in weeks that if she just cuddles and nurses her babe a little more that she only has to wait until that 4 month old is almost 2 and then she can get some sleep again. As far as cry it out, I am not endorsing leaving your crying infant in their crib in another room while you snooze away to get your 8 hours but you definitely dont need to jump out of bed at every fuss or noise. Letting your baby fuss or cry is not the same as the true CIO method, kwim? At some point in their sleep development they wake up just like all people do, take a look around and go back to sleep. At 4-5months this starts to happen and if you stick a boob in their mouth everytime this happens they are going to start to need something like nursing or a snack to fall back to sleep.

I am pro breastfeeding and pro co sleeping if they are working but I am definetly not pro ignoring a mother who is loking for alternatives to try and telling just to wait another 18 months to sleep. Normally I do adhere to MDC's rules but in this case just wanted to gree with someone on what worked for both my kods.


I just skimmed through this thread, but I have to say I agree with your statement about letting your baby fuss a little. I despise CIO, but like you said there is a big difference between letting your baby cry for hours (or even five minutes) and allowing him to stir a little bit. My son (four months) tosses and turns, and nine times out of ten he'll put himself back to sleep. If I rushed to his bassinet each time he stirred, I'd never get any sleep. And he is learning to manage his own sleep as a result.

post #30 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

 Letting your baby ... cry is not the same as the true CIO method, kwim?

Yes. Yes it is. CIO is crying and letting them cry to "teach" them to fall asleep is CIO.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayosgirl87 View Post
 


 If I rushed to his bassinet each time he stirred, I'd never get any sleep. And he is learning to manage his own sleep as a result.

They don't "manage their sleep" at 4 months. They just learn that no one is coming when they cry.

I don't doubt that CIO works for many babies, in the sense that they sleep without help. Is it worth it though? (for other reason that the obvious, that the mom gets more sleep)

post #31 of 55

It is true, as the other members have said, that this site does not host discussions that include CIO as an option.  It is also true, in my opinion, that letting your baby fuss a bit before responding does not equal crying it out.  If your baby wakes up, makes some noise and then falls back asleep, that is a different situation.  Most parents probably do wait a bit to make sure the baby is truly awake before going to get him, especially if he is sleeping in another room.  However, BaileyB, you specifically did mention it as CIO, not giving a little time to fall back asleep, and that is where the other members are taking issue with the term.  And crying it out, where you let the baby cry hysterically until he falls asleep from exhaustion is detrimental to a person's health, now and in the future.  CIO is not a part of natural & attachment parenting philosophy, and the posts that recommend this are subject to removal by a moderator.

In any event, it sounds like the original poster is past that suggestion of letting the baby fuss for a bit.  She's stated that she's already tried CIO and it didn't work, so she has experience of not responding right away and seeing that it doesn't lead to deeper sleep.  My experience with my babies is that once they were fussing, they would go back to sleep with nursing, usually, but if I let them wake all the way up, they would want to get up.  I'm talking about toddlers really...once my firstborn was over a year, I had a harder time sleeping through nursing, and there were times I didn't want to nurse, but if I just let her fuss, she'd start crying, then she'd wake up all the way and decide it was time to play. 

 

My first also mostly slept in arms in catnaps of less than 45 minutes most days, and around 4 months she became hard to latch, she'd be fussy in general, latching on, pulling off for half an hour before she would settle into nursing and then fall asleep.  Then around 6 or so, she'd fall asleep for a long period.  No matter what I did, I could not keep her awake, and I couldn't wake her after an hour or two, she just wanted to go back to sleep.  She'd usually sleep for a good long stretch, then be up for several hours at 10 pm.  So we'd end up going to bed for good between midnight and one am, and she'd wake frequently during the night. 

My second child was a much better sleeper, could fall asleep on her own and would easily fall back asleep.  I did have a period with her waking frequently, and I think it came around 9 months.  I had a co-sleeper, and she'd actually roll into it and just fall back asleep.  She was also a huge thumb sucker.  Now my kids are 14 and 10, and the 14 year old sleeps fine, but the 10 year old is up several times a night, and I often have to sleep with her.  So it's a trade-off, I guess. :lol  It's easier now, though, because I no longer sleep through the night, and I actually will take naps when I need them (if I have that luxury). 

post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by transylvania_mom View Post
 

Yes. Yes it is. CIO is crying and letting them cry to "teach" them to fall asleep is CIO.

 

They don't "manage their sleep" at 4 months. They just learn that no one is coming when they cry.

I don't doubt that CIO works for many babies, in the sense that they sleep without help. Is it worth it though? (for other reason that the obvious, that the mom gets more sleep)

 

I guess you didn't read my post very well. NEVER did I say that I let him CRY. I said that I let him "stir" and "toss and turn" in his sleep. If he starts crying then of course I come to his aide. We do not make him sleep without help, either. Each night after his last nursing of the night, his Papa or myself hold him until he sleeps deeply. Does that sound like abuse to you? My son is constantly smiling and everyone who sees him comments on how happy and secure he is, so I think I'm doing a pretty good job so far.

post #33 of 55

A lot of times Mamas know their babies better than anyone. It's hard to convey the difference between a baby who is simply moving around, trying to get comfortable and may be completely happy and content doing so and then cycling back to sleep and a baby "crying." Like BGirl I've never let my babies CIO. (OK, we tried it once with my first on the advice of an ill informed Ped, but it didn't last long. I figured if my husband had to physically hold me back from running into the room to pick up my baby, my instincts were better than any advice that Ped gave us. And I still feel bad about that one episode which didn't last long and was 27 years ago.)

 

Some babies are really active and may move around a little and then settle back down. I think most mamas know when that moment when the cycling isn't going to work and then go and get the baby immediately. I'm not speaking for her, but I'm guessing that was what @bayosgirl87 was trying to convey to us. (I know BGirl a little and I can't imagine her letting her much loved son cry unattended at all!)

 

I think the subtleties of interpreting a baby's actions are difficult to convey on the net, where our tone is not always obvious.

post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieLC View Post
 

A lot of times Mamas know their babies better than anyone. It's hard to convey the difference between a baby who is simply moving around, trying to get comfortable and may be completely happy and content doing so and then cycling back to sleep and a baby "crying." Like BGirl I've never let my babies CIO. (OK, we tried it once with my first on the advice of an ill informed Ped, but it didn't last long. I figured if my husband had to physically hold me back from running into the room to pick up my baby, my instincts were better than any advice that Ped gave us. And I still feel bad about that one episode which didn't last long and was 27 years ago.)

 

Some babies are really active and may move around a little and then settle back down. I think most mamas know when that moment when the cycling isn't going to work and then go and get the baby immediately. I'm not speaking for her, but I'm guessing that was what @bayosgirl87 was trying to convey to us. (I know BGirl a little and I can't imagine her letting her much loved son cry unattended at all!)

 

I think the subtleties of interpreting a baby's actions are difficult to convey on the net, where our tone is not always obvious.


Yep, that is exactly what I meant! My boy is indeed a very active baby and I assumed everyone would know what I meant-guess not. Thanks for diffusing the conversation a bit. :-)

post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayosgirl87 View Post
 


Yep, that is exactly what I meant! My boy is indeed a very active baby and I assumed everyone would know what I meant-guess not. Thanks for diffusing the conversation a bit. :-)

:Hug

 

I know you, hon, and I know how badly that little guy is wanted and loved. I knew what you meant. :love

post #36 of 55
My baby sometimes crystal got like a minute or 2 when I lay him back down in the middle of the night after a night feeding and this is after nursing him to sleep! Would you consider this bad? I'm being serious by the way I'm not intending any sarcasm! I let my first CIO and I still feel horrible about it yo this day! I was desperate for sleep and read a book that told me it was ok ! I had always felt in my heart it was wrong though!!
post #37 of 55
Cry not crystal
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post
 

It is true, as the other members have said, that this site does not host discussions that include CIO as an option.  It is also true, in my opinion, that letting your baby fuss a bit before responding does not equal crying it out.

I agree wholeheartedly Viola and reading through the thread I think CIO was used in places where posters simply meant that their child has a small fussy period before they fall asleep. I think sometimes we use words sometimes that don't mean what we are meaning because they often will mean different things to different people. And with the constraints of online forums we aren't able to read body language or tone or sometimes ask for immediate clarification to get the whole picture. I have ever belief that there was just some miscommunication going on as I read it a different way that others :)

It's been my experience that for *some* babies a few minutes of fussing is their way of self soothing and it's entirely respectful to allow them this time. My first needed a few minutes to fuss or cry before she would sleep. And *I* was interfering with this for some time because I don't believe in CIO and didn't realize that there was a huge difference between actually doing a CIO method and listening to your babies cues and allowing them to self soothe in their own way. For a few months my first would cry and fuss and I could tell she was tired and I'd try and nurse her down to sleep and when she hit the bed she'd stir a bit and start to fuss. It never lasted more than ten minutes and if I was there it was worse, and we'd just keep doing the same pattern over and over. Nurse, put down, fuss, pick up, nurse, put down, fuss, pick up. I was not one who could cosleep and I need sleep to physically do ok. But it took me a while but eventually I realized that her fussing was just her way of self soothing. She wasn't CIO at all but she needed that period for whatever reason. After her fussy period she was a great sleeper. My youngest on the other hand was the exact opposite. She would nurse to sleep and when she was older she would just put herself to sleep, however my youngest also took a soother from about 4 months onward as she had a strong need to suck but refused to pacify at the breast like my oldest and so I think this helped her soother in that way. Responding to your individual child's needs and recognizing them for their individual needs is also a very strong focus of attached parenting. 

post #39 of 55
For you, and the silent reading mamas, here are practical tips that took an edge off for me.

I go to sleep when my baby does in the evening to catch that first deep stretch.

I side-carred the crib to my bed and nurse the baby to sleep in place for nap and night (laying down nursing, me in the crib too).

I nap with the baby at least once a day.

I focus on if the baby has pooped; pooping every day is critical to sleep for my kids.

I focus on what I eat and remove the 'big five' allergens for two weeks and see if sleep improves. Especially if my baby isn't pooping daily, is getting diaper rash, or rubbing his face a lot. (Eggs, cow dairy, nuts, soy, wheat, sometimes citrus.)

I make sure there isn't a hint of diaper rash redness to irritate at night.

I have blackout blinds in our bedroom.

I have two children. The first is now five; I could never move her asleep anywhere, she woke five times a night, and was up for the day ready to poop at 5:30 all her early years. She wanted to be on the boob all night long. In hindsight, night weaning her in her own room between 9 months and a year would have been sanity saving.

My second is a sleeper. Sleep is easier. I am better and wiser, but the scale tips to twice a night instead of five times. He is easier. In hindsight...he led the way. (The armed forces have found that five hours of uninterrupted sleep every three nights is what soldiers need to stay stable, I find that true for me.)

I gather you are bottle feeding; I don't have tips for that part. Try sleeping arms in arms if you haven't; imperfect but humane for sleep.

Watch daytime sleep; feel out how much is too much and as my babies grew (not yet for you) I avoided naps past 4pm or more than three hours (!!) a day.

During the day, FEED THE BABY. As much as they can hold, any time you can get them interested. (Breastfeeding, anyway.)

If I can't get back to sleep at 2am, I have a book I've already read and a warm blanket on the couch. Eventually that will get me there.

The blessing of a second is that the shock of disbelief over not sleeping is gone. It is remarkable how the quiet certainty that this suffering is limited lets me avoid the despairing will-I-ever-sleep-again moments. It's one of the hardest truths of parenting, realizing your sleep is not what it was.

Your baby is very small and just coming to life. The animation and interest grows sreadily, this is a trend you'll be able to connect at two. Nothing is wrong, nothing is broken. You are looking for how to survive tinyness.

I ask for help and tips as I drift off to sleep of my subconscious or the universe or angels or my great grandmother. Sometime during my day a small thought of "I wonder if X..." will lead me to a breakthrough. Books were not my allies, but simple little I Wonder thoughts sure were.

Good luck to you. It really is this hard, there really is a lot to learn, it really does end! Blessings and easy love to you.
post #40 of 55
Do you all change diapers (pee pee) when you have a toddler or older baby waking up at night to nurse? I stopped a while ago bc I figured if my toddler was sleeping through the night he would have the same diaper on all night anyhow, and I didn't want to do anything to overstimulate him. But do you think he would sleep better if I changed him into a dry diaper in the middle if the night? He still wakes 2-4 times.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Life With a Baby
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Life With a Baby › Surviving with little to no sleep