New Traditional Foods (NT) Thread

[TigerTail]

Here we go!

As Yitlan said, it might be a good idea to keep a recipe thread going in 'Nutrition...'; but in addition to the philosophy tribal thing going here, I'd still like to feel free to post food 'ideas' here... So many of the things we've discussed are not recipes per se, but 'hey, my catsup- does it need to go longer?', 'my bread is a rock!', 'the pickle recipe is too salty!' etc. We do a lot of experimenting in this tribe! It might clutter up an actual 'here- cook this:' recipe thread if we load it up every time we have an issue. Just my thoughts-if y'all want to do it differently, no biggie- I'm a newbie here.

Anyway, let's rock & roll so Abi can archive our old long thread!

Suse

[spyiispy]

found ya

Okay, I'm here too! I just made several batches of the "Healthy Yeasted Bread" on the WAP website and its really fabulous. Maybe our gluten-free folks could sub sorghum/millet or something similar...but the long fermentation and the 7 hours of rising really does seem to do something "magical" for the bread. Its not quite "sour" enough tasting for me to consider it sourdough, though. I'm still anxiously awaiting my Carl's sourdough starter in the mail. When I made the bread, I tried a trick some of the sourdough afficienadoes had recommended........put a pan of water in the oven when you preheat....then mist the oven for the first couple minutes the bread is in. It seems to give a nice flaky, crispy crust. Sorry to hear about your bread faux pas's Suse & Rebekah Keep on keepin' on.....I'm sure with a little tweaking, they'll be fine.... Rebekah.....the bitter taste....could your flour have been old or rancid?? I'm rackin' my brain.....(short process, lol)

Lisa

[yitlan]

Thanks for all the work, Suse. I'm so proud a suggestion of mine helped!

We've never been a big bread family, but I'd like to try some. BUT my home is SO HOT in the summer as it is that I absolutely do not turn on the oven from about June-Sept. Has anyone adapted any of the bread recipes for a bread machine? Is it possible? Unless I have a recipe right in front of me, I don't use the ABM, so I'd need specific instructions! Anyone?

[RAF]

Hello Lisa, no my flour wasn't rancid, not this time anyway, because I used whole sprouted grains, not made into flour, just ground into a wet paste, right after they finished sprouting and then mixed and put in the oven. It is possible that maybe a little bit of mold had grown on the sprouts maybe? I don't know if that would give it a bitter taste though. Anyway, maybe sorghum just isn't for me. I don't really like the taste of it I guess.

Suse- did you ever eat whole sprouted sorghum? The sprouts were bitter too for some reason, and my husband thought it was nasty tasting too. He usually will eat just about anything! He thought the bread was less bitter than the raw batter though. Perhaps it only tastes good when it is thoroughly cooked or something maybe? Have you ever eaten raw sorghum? Anyone?

[yoga]

Hi, all. This thread and the other piqued my interest, but I haven't read everything.

What is the WAP website?

[spyiispy]

Chaka.....its www.westonaprice.org OR www.realmilk.org

I don't know about you guys, and I haven't read the article yet, but the soy article in this month's Mothering mag seems to have sparked a backlash on the boards. I knew it was gonna happen......and there seems to be quite an anti-WAP sentiment lately too. Have y'all encountered that? RAF, lol, I know YOU have

Rebekah.....I was curious about your bitter bread problem, so I did a little digging on sorghum. It looks like there's a couple different varieties..but the bitterness comes from something called the testa...."The testa is usually brick red, and even a small amount of red testa left in the flour will give it a pronounced pinkness, which many people find objectionable. If the variety contains tannin, most of it will be found in the testa. Tannin is objectionable for two reasons: it competes for available protein and it has a bitter taste. However, this bitter taste is also a major advantage, because it makes graniverous birds dislike high-tannin sorghums." I guess brown sorghums have more of a testa than yellow or white sorghums.

I've heard good things about "The Gluten-Free Gourmet Bakes Bread" book. I think its by Bette Hagman. Rebekah...the Kennewick library has a copy and its currently checked in. (can you tell I used to be an investigator?? LOL) The West Richland library also has it in right now too. There's a sourdough recipe in there that looks interesting.

Take care all....

Lisa

[RAF]

Hello Lisa and other NTers,

I think there has always been an anti-WAP sentiment on this board. Well, for as long as I've been here anyway. Yes, I know, they aren't supposed to be vegan oriented, but that add up at the top that I have seen so often for "vegetarian kids to vegan teens" and the constant bombardment of soy adds in the magazine really make me wonder.

Lisa- Wow! Thanks for the research! I wonder how to tell what type of sorghum I have. I got it from Azure Standard and it looks pretty light colored, but it does have that red stuff in splotches on some of the grains. Did you find anything on how to remove that testy testa? Or is it hopeless. Anyway, I have done quite a bit of gluten free bread baking and most of it is just ick, ick ick. Really gummy and flavorless. This is why I am doing the whole grain soaked and ground into batter thing. Oh by the way, for anyone who is interested in a really great gluten free flat bread (more like 1.5-2 inches thick) recipe that tastes just like sourdough if you let it ferment long, I will post the recipe to the NT recipe section as soon as I have a chance. There was a website for this bread, but it is gone!

Oh by the way, our last pregnant doe finally kidded on Monday. She had an easy time with the first kid, but ended up needing serious help with the last two. She had two babies tangled inside and both were in the birth canal at once. Everyone is doing good now and resting, but I have to bottle feed the two that got stuck because she won't have anything to do with nursing them. They are very normal, healthy looking kids too. Anyway, so I have got my hands full with kids of all sizes and types. Okay, I've gotta run now.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by spyiispy

I don't know about you guys, and I haven't read the article yet, but the soy article in this month's Mothering mag seems to have sparked a backlash on the boards. I knew it was gonna happen......and there seems to be quite an anti-WAP sentiment lately too. Have y'all encountered that?

I seem to have gotten the award for "most annoying ex-veg" because I first wrote about my problems with a vegan diet in response to vegmom's thread about vegetarians giving meat to their children, and now because I posted a link to Dr. Michael Greger's online talk about how veg*ns had a 50% greater risk of dying from degenerative brain diseases, and that veg*ns and omnis had the same rate of death from heart disease, stroke, etc. Mind you, he is a vegan doctor, and his site is sponsored by VegSource, so he's not a dairy or meat advocate. http://www.veganmd.org/talks

It's a pity that people will probably discount what he says just because it doesn't jive with what the leaders say. He gives really good advice about EFA's and B12, which I would have been better off knowing about as a vegan. As a former scared vegan in denial a couple years ago, I totally ignored the stories that people like elainie told about problems with the vegan diet. After all, I was one of the "good" ones, right? Ha ha, I'll show them! But in the end, I had to swallow my pride and change my diet. I will not make my child suffer because of dogma.

[TigerTail]

hey y'all.

the sorghum i grew i gnawed at the stems for a sweet field treat, and fed the grain to my birds (it was a black african sorghum.) i would like to try the grain tho', if i can get another crop going. it is a beautiful plant.

made a kitchen island today, so i have more cupboard/counter space; yay! it was desperately needed.

i might make the wild blueberry ale tomorrow.
and had first salad from the garden- leaf radish, baby red kale, red lettuces, malabar spinach. very delicate!

late so gotta split, will write more tomorrow when awake.

suse

[vegmom]

Originally Posted by toraji
As a former scared vegan in denial a couple years ago, I totally ignored the stories that people like elainie told about problems with the vegan diet. After all, I was one of the "good" ones, right? Ha ha, I'll show them! But in the end, I had to swallow my pride and change my diet. I will not make my child suffer because of dogma.

Oh my! I just posted my story about dd's health problems in a thread about vegan pregnancies in the 'Im pregnant' forum. Just by saying that we encountered health problems due to veganism made other posters accuse me of being insulting and saying that they are jeopordizing their childrens health to be vegan. I also stated that I was not going to jeopordize my dc's health to be vegan/vegetarian and I guess people took that statement the wrong way.

I must admit that I was one of those vegans in denial. My neighbor who is a master herbalist even told me to feed dd meat because she had seen communities who did not eat meat have rotten teeth. That was 6-7months before dd started having her problems. I never would have thought that eating meat and tooth decay would in anyway be related. Live and learn.

We are eating more and more meat... Today I cooked a whole chicken, my first meat ever. Dh has been the one to handle all the meat so far. But the chicken turned out really good. We even cooked the organs up with some onions and they were really yummy. Although dd still does not like the meat but will eat the juices/oils when put on other foods. But once in a while she will surprise me and take a little in her mouth and not spit it out. Today she prefered the salad to the meat. I never thought a toddler would ever prefer veggies over yummy meat.

I was wondering how you can make kefir to have a carbonated flavor? I bought some in the store and it was so delicious. Normally when I buy kefir it is really thick and lumpy, but this stuff is very light and creamy and kind of bubbles in the mouth. I have never attempted to make kefir but I do want to attempt it in the near future.

toraji and elainie- thanks again for your imput. I really appreciate it. I feel guilty for putting my dd through this whole ordeal but knowing that both of you have reversed tooth decay through diet has given me hope that I have not caused permanent damage.

[Brisen]

I've been following the soy thread, too. I've seen the veg*n/omni clashes elsewhere, and I've always found that the veg*ns were being more insulting/bashing, but it was a vocal minority. Of course, it always seems worse when you're feeling attacked; we need a non-eating third party to figure it out. I think, for me, the problem is that so many veg*ns are eating that way for moral reasons, while we're doing it for health, so we're probably not so emotionally attached. And Veg*ns also have to deal with people who just think they are weird, yk? When they are out IRL, they likely are being attacked more, but at a board like this, they are in concentrated numbers. I myself have wanted to point out some stuff I didn't agree with that veg*ns had said in other threads, but I didn't want to cross the line between discussing and bashing, since I tend to be a bit clueless about where it is.

[Brisen]

Helping my brother

WAP happened to come up with my brother on messenger the other day, and he seemed really interested. He wants to eat better and has agreed to let me butt in and help him. He's 17, quite athletic, and living at home. He's out in the sticks, is in school, and works a few hours. My parents are big into convenience foods. Anyone have any advice for helping him? He's addicted to cola sodas, so I advised him to work on cutting them out first, as well as other refined stuff as much as he could. I figure once school's out in the summer, he'll have more time for food prep, and then he's off to university in the fall.

Any suggestions?

[yoga]

Thanks for telling me what WAP stands for. I'm not good with acronyms.

Okay, I'm making a chicken stock according to the NT recipe. It says to use the whole chicken. I have 2 questions:

1- I thought I could make chicken stock just using used bones. Can I not do that?

2- Why do non-organic chickens not produce the gelatin? (that's what Sally says in the book, but I didn't see a reason for the claim.)

Thanks! This thread is great!

Also, what is you all's experience with growing your own sprouts? I read a book on it and I love the taste of them, but I haven't tried growing them yet. It seems so daunting, tho I read it's very simple. But, yesterday, I saw a sprouter thing in the health food store and I'm tempted to buy it.

So, any experiences/thoughts anyone would like to share on sprouting? I'd appreciate it.

[yitlan]

Sprouting is VERY easy! I'm sure there's gotta be instructions online. I do have one of the "gadgets" I got as a gift. I need to dig it out. I got out of the habit when I was pregnant with my first and never got back into it. But you can do sprouts with just a glass jar and wire top, as she shows in the book.

Brisen, I think your advice is good. I believe any changes in diet habits, whether NT or others, need to be done slowly. Baby steps! Cutting out soda is a HUGE one for many. That could take him all summer and then he'll be swimming in it again in college. So it'll be great if he can beat it now. Anyway, maybe suggest to him that he read the ingredients on what he eats. He doesn't have to NOT eat it, but it might start making him aware of how much goes into his body that he cannot pronounce! Just a thought...

[moss]

Chaka~we cant always afford organic chickens or turkeys. i always make bone broth from just the carcass of bones and it makes a fine broth with gelatin (ie it sets up like jello in the fridge.) i think it would be a waste to boil down a whole chicken unless she was a tough old layer hen.

i also agree that sprouting is very easy to do at home. http://www.sprouting.com/homesprouting.htm

i completed my first fermentation project! (yay me). i made rejuvelac and it turned out pretty well. i read somewhere online that the spent grains can be used as sourdough starter, so that's my next project.

The sprouted wheats were really sweet and tasty . Does anyone know if it's okay to eat them like that? (in terms of phytic acid, gluten breakdown or other weirdness, i mean)

[spyiispy]

Chaka........I rarely have organic chicken as well and sometimes I get gelatin, sometimes I don't. I just throw in a tablespoon or two of powdered gelatin for good measure. And yes, I use a whole chicken.....and take off the meat after its cooked....then I continue to cook the bones down for about 24 hours. The meat I save for soup or whatever. I've found that cooking the meat for 24 hours gives it a very soggy, mushy consistency. I keep the veggies in for the 24 hours too.....then after I'm done with them.....the doggy gets them.

I'm not sure why Sally recommends using a whole chicken.......possibly (and I'm just speculating here...) if you use bones that have already been cooked....the stock wouldn't be as beneficial, seeing as how some of the calcium and gelatin has been cooked out already.

Suse.....that wild blueberry ale sounds pretty darn yummy......let us know how it turns out. Did you use your black african sorghum for human consumption??

Rebekah....I'm not sure if there's any way to get the testa off once its there......besides some mega-processing. The trick, it appears, is to get the yellow or white variety of sorghum. I think there's also a bronze variety. Maybe you could complain to Azure.....tell them you got a very bitter batch. FINALLY....you got your baby goats! I'm glad you guys were so vigilant....those other two might not have made it. Yayy, triplets! I bet they're cute

[spyiispy]

Shannon.........I'd send him a web page on what exactly soda does to his body, so he can print it out and stick it on the fridge...so when he's tempted, he can read it. Also....is it feasible for him to get a copy of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price?? Its pretty interesting reading, even for a 17 year old Is he interested in sports?? You might try the angle that eating healthy and cutting out the crap will give him a definite edge over his competitors. Guys dig that ego stuff...lol...especially teenage guys.

Lisa

[morsan]

I know some people just use a carcass from a roasted chicken. I don't think that the calcium would be cooked out of the bones though, since it takes soaking in vinegar water to pull the calcium out of stock bones. There should be some meat in the stock though (perhaps this is why Sally recommends using a whole chicken, plus it's more convenient, and it's probably the most traditional way from back when they used old hens) for adding potassium to the broth.
What a great idea to take off the meat justa fter it's cooked through. Never thought of that. Maybe if we make it that way, we'll be sure to eat up the chicken meat after. Dh tried using it for a chicken salad, and he could hardly stomach it (and he's not picky with his meats). Or just use an old hen next time

Yeah, those vegans...I got it pretty bad at one point too. Veganmomma (or something similar) used to call me a troll! That was sort of amusing, until she just couldn't stop accusing me of having evil intentions despite my efforts to reconcile. I love trolls though, my favorite books from childhood are about trolls, and my favorite kid-movie, also. An ex of mine used to say I looked like one too (I get big frizzy hair sometimes). I know that vegans on this board like to keep it a safe haven. But sorry..., I just like to provide different sides of the story.

[moss]

do you think lemon would be acidic enough to pull calcium out of the bones? i havent tried adding vinegar when i'm simmering a bone broth, but it seems like it would taste too weird for me. Lemon on the other hand...

[yitlan]

Originally Posted by moss

do you think lemon would be acidic enough to pull calcium out of the bones? i havent tried adding vinegar when i'm simmering a bone broth, but it seems like it would taste too weird for me. Lemon on the other hand...

How about cider vinegar? I have no idea if lemon would do it or not, but this could be another option.

I've introduced my mom to NT and also passed along the Rubin book (Patient, Heal Thyself), as they stand on some of the same principles. Now, she started drinking goat milk, but the ultrapasteurized Meyenberg brand. Am I right in telling her RAW milk is the way to go and that she probably isn't getting any benefits from the Meyenberg?