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Two sisters claim Gardasil caused their infertility

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctors-call-claims-gardasil-caused-sisters-infertility-bogus/story?id=20830299 

 

Two sisters are claiming that the Gardasil vaccine caused their Premature Ovarian Failure. Here's part of the article: 

 

"There is nothing about this particular vaccine that would make this at all plausible," said Dr. Kim Gecsi, who directs the ob/gyn clerkship program at University Hospitals Case Medical Center in Cleveland. "There is nothing hormonal in Gardasil or anything anti-hormonal in Gardasil -- nothing that should encourage the body to stop producing ovarian hormones."

 

"Since this is not a recognized adverse effect, the judges will have to make a decision about that," said Dr. William Schaffner, chairman of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn. "There's no scientific basis for it."

What do you guys think about this? Obviously I don't think that the Gardasil vaccine causes POF but I do feel awful for these two girls. How sad for them to have to go through infertility at such a young age. 


Edited by teacozy - 11/12/13 at 9:26am
post #2 of 45

Very sad. I have no idea if that vaccine causes this awful side effect. I just know that I have not and will not give the vaccine to my daughters. It's too iffy, it doesn't immunize for all forms of HPV and even those that it does, there's a huge chance that your DD won't get immunity anyway.

 

I don't see the point.

post #3 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctors-call-claims-gardasil-caused-sisters-infertility-bogus/story?id=20830299 

 

 I don't think that the Gardasil vaccine causes POF but I do feel awful for these two girls. 

 

I think I does

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=23902317

post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

 

I think I does

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=23902317

 

A sample size of three? really? just because some women happen to get POF after receiving the vaccine doesn't mean anything.  POF affects 1 out of every 1,000 women aged 15-29 and 1 out of every 100 women ages 30-39 (http://americanpregnancy.org/womenshealth/pof.htm

 

There have been over 57 million doses of Gardasil given in the US since 2006.  By chance alone, thousands and thousands of those girls/women are going to get diagnosed with POF.  As has been pointed out before in other threads, other conditions don't just stop happening because someone gets vaccinated.  If they did, that would have to be thoroughly investigated as that would mean that the Gardasil vaccine somehow protects against premature ovarian failure. 

post #5 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

 

I think it does

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=23902317

Yes, it certainly can cause POF.  Thanks for the link, Serenbat.

 

The fact that those doctors insist that "There is nothing about this particular vaccine that would make this at all plausible" when there is published mainstream, peer-reviewed research showing that it CAN happen?  That has to make you wonder what kind of doctor is insisting that it can't happen.  Does she really not know that it can happen?  Or is she paid to insist that it can't?

post #6 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

Yes, it certainly can cause POF.  Thanks for the link, Serenbat.

 

The fact that those doctors insist that "There is nothing about this particular vaccine that would make this at all plausible" when there is published mainstream, peer-reviewed research showing that it CAN happen?  That has to make you wonder what kind of doctor is insisting that it can't happen.  Does she really not know that it can happen?  Or is she paid to insist that it can't?

 

You really think three anecdotal stories of women being diagnosed with POF after receiving the Gardasil vaccine is good evidence?  Have you actually looked at the "study"? 

 

One of the girls was complaining of irregular periods before she ever received the first dose of the vaccine. The second girl is her sister, suggesting a possible genetic factor. Also, this second girl had started her period on the late side of average at age 15. She only had two periods and didn't have anymore. This was two years after she received the Gardasil vaccine.  Third girl is much of the same kind of thing. Problems with her period starting months after the vaccine followed by a couple years of irregular periods before being diagnosed with POF. 

 

As Orac puts it "No evidence is presented, and they labor mightily to turn three anecdotes into “data.” Basically, their “reasoning” (such as it is) boils down to this. Three females developed POF sometime within several months to a couple of years of receiving Gardasil. Two of them had autoantibodies, but not the same autoantibodies. Therefore, Gardasil must have caused their ovarian failure through ASIA. Yes, their arguments are just that bad." 

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/  

post #7 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

Yes, it certainly can cause POF.  Thanks for the link, Serenbat.

 

There is absolutely no proof of that.

post #8 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

There is absolutely no proof of that.

Did you not read the study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=23902317

CONCLUSION:  "We documented here the evidence of the potential of the HPV vaccine to trigger a life-disabling autoimmune condition. The increasing number of similar reports of post HPV vaccine-linked autoimmunity and the uncertainty of long-term clinical benefits of HPV vaccination are a matter of public health that warrants further rigorous inquiry."

post #9 of 45
They say that they showed "potential" not "proof." There's a big difference.
post #10 of 45
Thread Starter 

Yeah, it's good to know a sample size of three anecdotal stories is now considered "good evidence".  I could probably just as easily find three women who became pregnant within a month of getting the Gardasil vaccine and claim that the vaccine boosts fertility! 

post #11 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
The fact that those doctors insist that "There is nothing about this particular vaccine that would make this at all plausible" when there is published mainstream, peer-reviewed research showing that it CAN happen?  That has to make you wonder what kind of doctor is insisting that it can't happen.  Does she really not know that it can happen?  Or is she paid to insist that it can't?

 

It is not peer-reviewed research.  It is a case study paper and it's really, really weak.  Here is the full text for anyone interested.  Can you point to specific evidence in the paper that the vaccine caused POF?

http://www.luontaisnetti.fi/hpv/3%20cases%20of%20Primary%20Ovarian%20Failure%20following%20HPVvaccination,%20Am%20J%20Reproductive%20Immunol%202013.pdf

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

A sample size of three? really? just because some women happen to get POF after receiving the vaccine doesn't mean anything.  POF affects 1 out of every 1,000 women aged 15-29 and 1 out of every 100 women ages 30-39 (http://americanpregnancy.org/womenshealth/pof.htm

 

There have been over 57 million doses of Gardasil given in the US since 2006.  By chance alone, thousands and thousands of those girls/women are going to get diagnosed with POF.  As has been pointed out before in other threads, other conditions don't just stop happening because someone gets vaccinated.  If they did, that would have to be thoroughly investigated as that would mean that the Gardasil vaccine somehow protects against premature ovarian failure. 

 

Exactly. Even given the very conservative estimate of 1 in 10,000 for women under 20, we would expect nearly 2000 of the vaccinated population to develop POF.  So far there have been 4 published reports, with 3 under 20.

post #12 of 45

Honestly, all the hype about the dangers of Gardasil makes me nervous.  It's actually really reassuring to come across stuff like this and see that so much of what the anti-gardasil people put forth as evidence is just bunk.  Seeing reports of numbers of Gardasil deaths also used to make me nervous until I actually looked thruogh VAERS (generally listed as the source) and saw how many had obvious causes that were not Gardasil or were cases of "I read in a magazine" or people reporting incidences that they had seen referred to online or some other worse-than-third hand way.  It was like a big sigh of relief.  And yet, so many people cite these death numbers as if they were without a question all caused by the vaccine when some of hem may not even have happened in the case of "I read on an internet forum that a girl died after Gardasil"  Knowledge is power, I guess.  Also this discussion is rather relevant to me as I just sent the consent forms back to school with my daughter today. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieLC View Post
 

Very sad. I have no idea if that vaccine causes this awful side effect. I just know that I have not and will not give the vaccine to my daughters. It's too iffy, it doesn't immunize for all forms of HPV and even those that it does, there's a huge chance that your DD won't get immunity anyway.

 

I don't see the point.

 

Many form of HPV are harmless.  Why would they invest resources into creating a vaccine against them?  The strains that they do vaccinate for include the two that are responsible for causing nearly all cases of cervical cancer and two common ones that cause genital warts. 

 

There is a chance that it won't be effective, but a huge chance?  Based on what?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

Did you not read the study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=23902317

CONCLUSION:  "We documented here the evidence of the potential of the HPV vaccine to trigger a life-disabling autoimmune condition. The increasing number of similar reports of post HPV vaccine-linked autoimmunity and the uncertainty of long-term clinical benefits of HPV vaccination are a matter of public health that warrants further rigorous inquiry."

 

How does three instances of women who had gardasil developing ovarian failure show that gardasil causes it? 

 

While premature ovarian failure isn't that common, it certainly happens, and it happened to women in my generation (prior to the development of Gardasil). In the vast majority of cases, there was never a cause found Unless there is some reason to expect Gardasil to prevent premature ovarian failure, then it shouldn't be a shock at all to know that it happens on occasion to women who have been vaccinated with Gardasil just as it does to women who haven't.

 

Is it possible that gardasil causes this?  Well, sure.  Is it possible that yoga classes and the positions girls get into and stay in for prolonged periods causes it?  Well, guess we can't rule that out either, and I'm sure if you did a survey of women who suffered from premature ovarian failure with no known cause you could find at least a few who had never been vaccinated with gardasil but had stared taking yoga classes no long before noticing symptoms.  However, there is no reason to believe that either of these things actually caused premature ovarian failure. 


Where is the evidence showing a increase in premature ovarian failure following the introduction of Gardasil?  Where is the evidence showing that girls vaccinated with Gardasil are more likely to suffer from premature ovarian failure than girls who have not? 

 

This "study" is so weak it's utterly ridiculous.  

post #13 of 45

"Honestly, all the hype about the dangers of Gardasil makes me nervous.  It's actually really reassuring to come across stuff like this and see that so much of what the anti-gardasil people put forth as evidence is just bunk. "  Pers.

 

Seeing as there is only one study listed in this thread, I am not sure where you are getting the "so much ….is bunk" thing.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 11/12/13 at 8:18pm
post #14 of 45

Does anyone have a study that shows that Merck did any testing on ovaries and the effects Gardasil has on ovaries?

post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

"Honestly, all the hype about the dangers of Gardasil makes me nervous.  It's actually really reassuring to come across stuff like this and see that so much of what the anti-gardasil people put forth as evidence is just bunk. "  Pers.

 

Seeing as there is only one study listed in this thread, I am not sure where you are getting the "so much ….is bunk" thing.  

 

 

"Stuff like this" as in the link in this thread is one example of the sort of stuff I've seen many times before. 

post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

Does anyone have a study that shows that Merck did any testing on ovaries and the effects Gardasil has on ovaries?

 

What sort of testing would they do?  Is there any sort of reason to expect that Gardasil may somehow harm the ovaries that would justify invasive testing?  

 

Clinical trials followed girls/women injected with either Gardasil or a placebo and recorded health events.  

post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by pers View Post
 

 

What sort of testing would they do?  Is there any sort of reason to expect that Gardasil may somehow harm the ovaries that would justify invasive testing?  

 

Clinical trials followed girls/women injected with either Gardasil or a placebo and recorded health events.  

Why would they not have done testing on the effects of the reproduction system? Last time I checked "genitals" were very much a part of the reproduction system. Since the whole reproductive system is to work together, why would one not want to see that testing had been done? 

 

As far as clinical trials, since when do we know the long term effects on fertility among those who have been vaccinated? Do we have data that supports the first age group to receive the vaccine has not had infertility issues? 2006 approval - 2008 is about the time it started to be in general/mass use - so where is the data that shows the first age on women is not having fertility issues?

 

Guess you would not know what effect it would have on the ovaries unless you checked the effects - like with lab rats, the way other vaccines and /or drugs are check on their effects on organs.

 

I say we don't know the full extent on the infertility issues with Gardasil but we do know there are some issues that some did get compensated for - http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/hpv-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths-is-the-government-compensating/

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131306945/HPV-Claims-3-7-2013  - if you look to the right you can find lots of things to read :wink


Edited by serenbat - 11/13/13 at 7:05pm
post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

Why would they not have done testing on the effects of the reproduction system? Last time I checked "genitals" were very much a part of the reproduction system. Since the whole reproductive system is to work together, why would one not want to see that testing had been done? 

 

 

This line of reasoning is ridiculous. It's like saying " Well, measles causes pneumonia which affects the lungs so it should be biologically plausible that the MMR  vaccine causes lung cancer or emphysema!"  Or " Well, mumps can cause infertility in men, so it's logical to assume that the MMR may cause penile cancer or prostate cancer since, after all, mumps affects the reproductive organs of men"  Or " We should assume that the MMR causes brain cancer since measles can cause Encephalitis which affects the brain." 

post #19 of 45

If POF is autoimmune, I think its totally possible that the vaccine could do that. Its not the first time a vaccine has caused autoimmune issues. 

post #20 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMamaGC View Post
 

If POF is autoimmune, I think its totally possible that the vaccine could do that. Its not the first time a vaccine has caused autoimmune issues. 

:yeah

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