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Two sisters claim Gardasil caused their infertility - Page 3

post #41 of 45
Quote:
 the team was not able to find a causal link between oral contraceptives and glaucoma
post #42 of 45
Teacozy personifies - to a degree that is almost cliche - how angry the vaccine defenders are.

The bottom line is that we should all have this choice. It would be SO BAD if the government could legally require vaccines for so many reasons. Thank God for freedom of choice.

As for the legal issues, the standard of proof for civil cases I the US as in elsewhere is "more likely than not", which means that a judge came to the conclusion after reviewing massive amounts of medical evidence that it is more likely than not that the vaccine caused the injury. That's good enough for me to think twice about injecting it into my babe. Let the girls decide for themselves when they are older.
post #43 of 45
Thread Starter 

Can we please stop with the straw man arguments? No where have I said that I think parents should be forced to give their child a Gardasil vaccine.  That is not what this debate or my OP was about at all. 

 

@serenbat I purposefully chose a non vaccine related medical ruling because a lot of people believe that virtually *any* condition is linked to vaccines.  So any example I provide that involves a vaccine is likely to be rejected.  Just to humor you,here's a pretty classic case (scientifically speaking) of this kind of ruling. 

 

"In 2006, for example, Dorothy Werderitsh claimed in the vaccine court that a hepatitis B vaccine had triggered an autoimmune response in her brain that led to multiple sclerosis. Two large studies had clearly shown that hepatitis B vaccine could neither cause nor exacerbate multiple sclerosis, but the court ruled in favor of Ms. Werderitsh, elevating a hypothesis above epidemiological evidence." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/opinion/31offit.html

 

Paul Offit describes that ruling and the Hannah Poling ruling as an example too "No case, however, represented a greater deviation from the VICP's original standards than that of Dorothy Werderitsh, who in 2006 successfully claimed that a hepatitis B vaccine had caused her multiple sclerosis. By the time of the ruling, several studies had shown that hepatitis B vaccine neither caused nor exacerbated the disease, and the Institute of Medicine had concluded that “evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccine and multiple sclerosis.”2 But the VICP was less impressed with the scientific literature than it was with an expert's proposal of a mechanism by which hepatitis B vaccine could induce autoimmunity (an ironic conclusion, given that Dorothy Werderitsh never had a detectable immune response to the vaccine)." 

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904 

 

Both of those links also explain the Hannah Poling case as well, for those who are interested. 

 

Of course, I know that most NVers are going to reply " Well OF COURSE the Heb B vaccine caused her MS... what a dumb example!"  which is why I didn't use a vaccine comparison in the first place. 

post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

Can we please stop with the straw man arguments? No where have I said that I think parents should be forced to give their child a Gardasil vaccine.  That is not what this debate or my OP was about at all. 

 

@serenbat I purposefully chose a non vaccine related medical ruling because a lot of people believe that virtually *any* condition is linked to vaccines.  So any example I provide that involves a vaccine is likely to be rejected.  Just to humor you,here's a pretty classic case (scientifically speaking) of this kind of ruling. 

 

"In 2006, for example, Dorothy Werderitsh claimed in the vaccine court that a hepatitis B vaccine had triggered an autoimmune response in her brain that led to multiple sclerosis. Two large studies had clearly shown that hepatitis B vaccine could neither cause nor exacerbate multiple sclerosis, but the court ruled in favor of Ms. Werderitsh, elevating a hypothesis above epidemiological evidence." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/opinion/31offit.html

 

Paul Offit describes that ruling and the Hannah Poling ruling as an example too "No case, however, represented a greater deviation from the VICP's original standards than that of Dorothy Werderitsh, who in 2006 successfully claimed that a hepatitis B vaccine had caused her multiple sclerosis. By the time of the ruling, several studies had shown that hepatitis B vaccine neither caused nor exacerbated the disease, and the Institute of Medicine had concluded that “evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccine and multiple sclerosis.”2 But the VICP was less impressed with the scientific literature than it was with an expert's proposal of a mechanism by which hepatitis B vaccine could induce autoimmunity (an ironic conclusion, given that Dorothy Werderitsh never had a detectable immune response to the vaccine)." 

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904 

 

Both of those links also explain the Hannah Poling case as well, for those who are interested. 

 

Of course, I know that most NVers are going to reply " Well OF COURSE the Heb B vaccine caused her MS... what a dumb example!"  which is why I didn't use a vaccine comparison in the first place. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

Legal "proof" is not scientific or medical proof.  It just means that certain conditions were met and the government decided it was cheaper to compensate than fight.  I don't need you to post dictionary definitions.

 

Well Tea, as chickabiddy says!  it's CHEAP! Both Werderitsh & Poling (more than 1.5 million) received compensation 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 the team was not able to find a causal link between oral contraceptives and glaucoma

just being snippy? or didn't you see the word "could" in the title?

 

The study was the first-ever to confirm a link between glaucoma and birth control use for three or more years.

post #45 of 45
Thread Starter 

Forgot to address this from post #29 

 

"In the clinical studies alone, 23 girls died after receiving either Gardasil or the Aluminum control injection. 15 of the 13,686 girls who received Gardasil died, while 8 died among the 11,004 who received the Aluminum shot. There was only one death among the group that had a saline placebo. What this means is that 1 out of every 912 who received Gardasil in the study died." 

 

In the link provided in that post it says that 21 women in the Gardasil group died and 19 from the placebo group died.  The deaths included 9 car accidents, 8 suicides/drug overdoses, 4 gunshot wounds, asphyxia, breast cancer etc.  Surely you don't  blame the vaccine for these deaths do you? There was one case of brain cancer in the saline group. However, the saline group only had 594 people in it vs close to 30,000 in the other two groups combined so of course more deaths are expected in the latter.  

 

Statements like " What this means is that 1 out of every 912 who received Gardasil in the study died" is very misleading. It implies they died from the vaccine which is clearly not true.  The rate of death in both groups were consistent with what is expected in healthy adult and adolescent populations. 

 

Here is the link that was provided in the post.  I got this information from page 9. http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf


Edited by teacozy - 11/19/13 at 7:14am
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